I singned up for methadone treatment!

[kemikals]

^That's another reason why bupe may be better, because you get it at a reg pharm no at clinic dosing, unless it's subtex.

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Can you do buprenorphine treatment with only Subutex?? I know, stupid queston but I know little about it and am going to get on it in six months

 

[rachamim18]

reply to Jerseydrape...

At first [over 10 years ago] I had to have my methadone before I started work in the morning but as I became accustomed to it I found my preferences changing.Now,I dose right after finishing.Its like the proverbial carrot on a stick.

When I used to take it prior to starting work I would feel like crap at the end of the day.I know the mechanics of how the substance works[stored in the lipids,etc.],that one dose does hold you for 36 hours,but after sweating on a jackhammer for 8 to 12 hours a day a half a mile underground,you don't want to hear that text book crap.

The main advantage of methadone is the stability it provides.As an illicit addict my life was the definition of chaos.Now,every Monday evening at between 4 and 6:30 in the evening I walk up to the nurses window,get my 1330 milligrams and head home to nod off-as I am currently doing.If it was 10 to 25 years ago,who can guess what I would be doing?

My situation is different than yours in that I receive it only for opiate addiction and not as part of a combination therapy as you have mentioned in past posts...For your needs,if I remember correctly you are a mechanic and also have a second job,I still feel that methadone is the best route.The only foreseeable problem would be your dosing schedule because a mechanic is not that physically active,at least not in the sense of constant movement.If you aren't constantly moving around you will nod.That can be a problem if your boss and/or coworkers aren't hip...

 

[DrEIMiller]

I'm a little confused how MMT works. Some of you, like K'dOUT menitoned, is "now I'm up to 110mgs" or whatever the dose. Ok, so if I understand correctly, they start you out on, like 10mgs - then they keep upping you in 10mg increments till you're no longer going into the clinik sick? Is that correct?

Wouldn't it make, if one wanted to quit, to just get on a low of a dose as possible, that keeps you from getting sick? Because if they up you by 10mgs a day until you are held, say you need to take 100mg to really keep from getting sick. That's 10 days you have to keep going in there, granted a little less sick each day, right? But in those 10 days, couldn't you just max yourself at say 40-50 mgs, so that you're not on such a huge dose of methadone?

Or am I not understanding how it works?

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Your dose gets adjusted in maintenence. They start (at my clinic) you at 15mg and increase your dose 5-10mg every day that you mention that you are still feeling withdrawls until you finally get to the point where you no longer feel any withdrawl symptoms throughout a 24 hour period. If the people at the clinic notice that you are looking groggy, talking in a thick tone, or whatever, they will lower your dose 5-10mg. They try to keep the dose steedy so they don't have to keep going down and then up and so forth. The goal is to get at a dose where you don't have to keep going up. Once you find your dose, you stay there and they will usually never change it unless you want to taper (that is up to them also!) Each addict is different. Usually the guy who has been using opoids the longest period at the highest dose is the guy who is at like the 250mg+ dose. Some people require less, some more.

My dose is 110mg and it works for me, no withdrawals anymore

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Ohhhh...

And they also raise your doses verrrryyy slowly so you can't get up to 100mg in ten days. They try you on certain doses for a week+ sometimes

 

[DrEIMiller]

Ok thanks, but my one question still outstands. If you would initially need say 100mg to stabilize on methadone, but they start you at 15mg and it would take say 2 weeks to get to 100mgs to keep you stabilized. Wouldn't you kind of be withdrawing while they are increasing the mgs of meth so that instead of needing 100mg you'd would have withdrawed partially and gotten stabilized at say 50mg? Or could you also just grin and bear and say I won't go over 40mg and eventually you would withdraw and 40mg would eventually stabilize you? Does that make sense or am I being confusing?

Thanks.

 

[Tongue]

KDOUT-ya said ya dont feel sick anymore, BUT ya also said when ya pick yer dose up every morning, ya feel like SHIT??im confused...SICK from what??i have a hard time believinbg U are actually dopesick from the 'DONE, cuz u have been getting constantly raised and are now at yer highest dosage, correct??

DREI MILLER-honestly bro, i dont think the MAJORITY of people on METHADONE maintenance actually want to quit OPIODS...they just realize that being hooked on SMACK, having a $50 per day habit, constantly dealing with scoring etc etc is too much hassle, so they figure they can go to maintenance and get a nice NOD from METHADONE..its cheap, obviously accessible....these guys ya hear going on 160 mgs and UP i have to believe are just trying to get something of a high outta their maintenance..thats just my OPINION, but ive seen it with many people at my clinic..they had relatively SMALL drug habits going into maintenance, yet are on 100 PLUS mgs...i had a very bad junk habit, and yet 60 mgs tied me over completely..i know, i know, EVERYONE reacts differently to each drug, but i still have my doubts as to needing such high doses..

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

If you would initially need say 100mg to stabilize on methadone, but they start you at 15mg and it would take say 2 weeks to get to 100mgs to keep you stabilized. Wouldn't you kind of be withdrawing while they are increasing the mgs of meth so that instead of needing 100mg you'd would have withdrawed partially and gotten stabilized at say 50mg?

You, nor anybody else, including the nurse, know what dose that you will need to be stable so you can't automatically say that you will need 100mg, you might only need 60mg or you might need more than 100mg, who knows? Second of all, you will never be brought up to 100mg in two weeks. They steadily bring you up, stopping at certain doses to see what THEY think. You do have to grin and bear it sometimes. They won't just raise your dose every day, even if you are still w/ding. I don't understand your last sentence but you will know what dose works for you. When you wake up without w/ding and feeling alright before going to the clinic, you will know that the dose is stabilizing you. Some people try to get high and keep saying that they need more but if you are serious, you will just stop asking for a raise and explaining your symptoms to your nurse. It took me two months to get to my dose of 110mg which works for me. If you aren't feeling w/d symptoms at 50mg then stay there, that is your stabilizind dose.

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

KDOUT-ya said ya dont feel sick anymore, BUT ya also said when ya pick yer dose up every morning, ya feel like SHIT??im confused...SICK from what??i have a hard time believinbg U are actually dopesick from the 'DONE, cuz u have been getting constantly raised and are now at yer highest dosage, correct??

I don't feel sick at all anymore, don't know where you got that, for awhile I was still sick in the morning from w/d's from my heroin/oxycontin habit. I'm not dopesick from the methadone but eventually when you taper that is where the problem of getting dopesick from methadone comes in. I'm not at all and never was dopesick from the methadone, you must have read me wrong somewhere. I was being raised cuz, like I mentioned earlier, I was still w'ding from my opioid habit. I'm not at my highest dose, I'm at "my" dose, I'm happy at it...I could go up to shit....300mg if I wanted to but I ain't w/ding from my past habit so I'm sticking at this dose.

Oh and Tounge, you will always have people that drug seek so why bitch about it? You can catch buzzes from methadone, alot of the reason why people go on methadone. Many of the people have small habits possibly. I had no small habit. I had a fucked up large habit so it took awhile to get to a dose that made me feel alright

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

P.S. I forgot to mention that I suffer chronic pain so that is why my dose required to be over the 100mg mark. MMT isn't devolped for pain managment but I find that it works really well for it so I use it to my benifit. Otherwise I'll just be making my habit worse (past heroin/oxy/various,etc. habit) with free pain pills from pain management

 

[rachamim18]

questions,questions,and more questions...

first of all...All clinics are different.Although,I have never heard of 15 mgs. as an initial dose [except in jail].Almost universally,the initial dose is 30 mgs with incremental increases of 10 mgs. daily.The staff does not decide whether to increase or decrease ones dose while someone is adjusting.

People have different metabolisms requiring different doses.In addition,certain medications[like most protease inhibitors] "eat" a persons dose so that a substantially higher dose is required.

DrE...Kdou is correct that one does not know whether a dose is enough to make one comfortable until the next day so that the process is essentially hit or miss.However,upon reaching a certain level it becomes inconsequential how high ones dose is.Case in point:A person on 80 milligrams and a person on 110 milligrams will start suffering withdrawal symptoms at about the same dose with little subjective variation.

Again Kdou...I have never seen ones dose lowered against ones will without medical testing [Trough testing,etc...].Many things potentiate a methadone dose so that to arbitrarily lower ones dose would be counter productive.

Finally...One can elect not to enroll in methadone maintenance but instead opt for methadone assisted detox in 7 to 28 day increments.The person who commented that many maintenance enrolleess are merely seeking an easy fix instead of eventual abstinence...that is the philosophy behind maintenance "substitution therapy."

 

[ebeneezer_geeza]

maintainance - just to point out the correct definition which many clinics and doctors dont seem to know, is providing a high amount of methadone so that you get nothing, or very little from heroin should you take it. The dose is 60 - 120mg.

 

[raoulduke]

I heard methadone was about 1-2 times the potency of oxy. So 30mg would be exactly like a 60mg pill of oxy at once? I've never done methadone before, also i hope they dont put me 60mg of methadone cuz that is crazy, they will probly give me a small dose because im under 19 like 20mg or so i assume, ill keep you posted.

 

[rachamim18]

More on methadone...

Geezer...Actually the doses range from 20 mgs. to 300 mgs. although it very rarely exceeds 250.

The philosophy of maintenance is "opiate substitution."By replacing an illicit opiate with a legal one, a person is able to obtain stability and better their life.Their primary goal in providing methadone as a legal substitute is not so much to "block" heroin or other opiates but to bring structure and a healthier standard of living to the enrollee.

Below 70 mgs. a methadone dose not block any other drug.There is a tiny bit of variance in that figure but that is the rule of thumb.I have heard others say that one can beat the "blocking mechanism" by doing a pure enough or large enough amount of opiates...I have never been able to prove that myself.

Raoul...Although they may in fact start you off on 20,it is unlikely.Almost all clinics start on 30 and give the patient the option of decreasing or increasing the dose by 10 mgs. a day.

 

[hazejunk]

^^aha thats wy i still feel H very good when i thake
methadone i thake only max 60 mg
iam not addicted so i use them for fun
and the mix good together

 

[ebeneezer_geeza]

60mg is quite a lot for a beginner, you are treading on dangerous ground to be an addict. You only need to take that amount twice a week to get addicted to methadone, whereas if u took H twice a week the same may not happen. Leave out the methadone - the withdrawal is so much longer than heroin withdrawal - a month at least of PAIN and mental shit.

It may feel great now, but soon it wont, then you will wish you had took notice.

 

[ebeneezer_geeza]

Re: More on methadone...

Geezer...Actually the doses range from 20 mgs. to 300 mgs. although it very rarely exceeds 250.

in the UK they dont. The NHS make clear that maintainance is 60 - 120mg. Sure people have above that. I know the US has different philosophy which i dont think is wrong.

Problem in the UK is that most clinicans havent a clue about maintainance and prescribe the lowest they can - eg 20mg

 

[hazejunk]

i dont understand you need to by on them 24/7 to become phiscly adiccted right?twice a week is like wensday and saterday you mean to say that i will becime phisicly hookd
if you only use them twice a week?

 

[Bad_Boy_Blue]

If you would initially need say 100mg to stabilize on methadone, but they start you at 15mg and it would take say 2 weeks to get to 100mgs to keep you stabilized. Wouldn't you kind of be withdrawing while they are increasing the mgs of meth so that instead of needing 100mg you'd would have withdrawed partially and gotten stabilized at say 50mg?

You, nor anybody else, including the nurse, know what dose that you will need to be stable so you can't automatically say that you will need 100mg, you might only need 60mg or you might need more than 100mg, who knows? Second of all, you will never be brought up to 100mg in two weeks. They steadily bring you up, stopping at certain doses to see what THEY think. You do have to grin and bear it sometimes. They won't just raise your dose every day, even if you are still w/ding. I don't understand your last sentence but you will know what dose works for you. When you wake up without w/ding and feeling alright before going to the clinic, you will know that the dose is stabilizing you. Some people try to get high and keep saying that they need more but if you are serious, you will just stop asking for a raise and explaining your symptoms to your nurse. It took me two months to get to my dose of 110mg which works for me. If you aren't feeling w/d symptoms at 50mg then stay there, that is your stabilizind dose.

I had absolutely no idea that avoid morning WD's simply involves raising the dosage. I've been suffering unnessarily!

Problem in the UK is that most clinicans havent a clue about maintainance and prescribe the lowest they can - eg 20mg

This is a real bitch, especially if you're desperate (thank god I wasn't when I started subutex).

If the people at the clinic notice that you are looking groggy, talking in a thick tone, or whatever, they will lower your dose 5-10mg. They try to keep the dose steedy so they don't have to keep going down and then up and so forth.

I personally know someone who avoided this by using low doses of meth and caffeine! I'm not sure how much danger he was putting himself in though. Who knows; he could have simply passed out if he were to stop using the meth. I would imagine they'd kick him off for something such as this.