I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

[Solipsis]

I am honestly wondering why we are not seeing 5,N,N-TMT as it should be close to DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in effect (but you could also say that of the 5-halo's.)

 

[clubcard]

Ever tried smoking the freebase or snorting the salt? - THAT!

 

[aced126]

Very nice structures Friman; do you work in drug discovery?

This has very probably popped up before but if it hasn't:

Just found out Dresden posted this molecule about 5 pages ago. Has this been documented ever?

 

[DotChem]

Interesting.. would the aza-indole derivatives cross the BBB? too polar, are they not? DMT already threshold

 

[DotChem]

Very nice structures Friman; do you work in drug discovery?

This has very probably popped up before but if it hasn't:

the 5-MeO seems like a horrible compound..

Well not sure about beta-keto tryptamines, but this compound below sounds like it's terrible..

Alpha alkylating that would seem like an even fancier way to make it more sketchy, if it'd be more like aET.

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal43.shtml

 

[aced126]

DMT is threshold because it is so similar to an endogenous molecule (tryptamine, and serotonin) that it is pretty much the perfect substrate for MAO metabolism in the stomach. Similar thing going on with phenethylamine. Add a methyl group on the alpha carbon of both molecules (and remove the N-methyls on DMT I guess) and you get 2 very long lasting molecules: aMT and amphetamine. All because that methyl group significantly reduces substrate affinity for their respective enzymes.

 

[aced126]

Interesting.. would the aza-indole derivatives cross the BBB? too polar, are they not? DMT already threshold

How do you name the top 2 compounds?

 

[Friman1987]

Very nice structures Friman; do you work in drug discovery?

Thank you, very kind of you. I'm still a student.

Interesting.. would the aza-indole derivatives cross the BBB? too polar, are they not? DMT already threshold

To know that you can look at polar surface area and log-P.

The AZA-O-Methylbufotenine Looks interesting, good PSA and good LogP. Most known psychedelic has a PSA of less than 50. PSA is dependent on how many N, O you have. OH is more polar then MeO, NH3 is more polar then NH2, NH2 is more polar than N.

RH-34 have a PSA of 70,67. It should not cross the BBB so well.


There are also other variables that you can look at for example determining drug absorption by pKa.
Someone else might have different method to look at the polarity.

 

[aced126]

Hmm, not looking too good for the aza compounds, especially the ones having a logP of under 1. I had never considered polar surface area as a determining factor in the molecule's ability to penetrate the BBB. I also think size itself would play a big factor; oxygen can cross membranes simply because it's pretty small (and would be in quite large concentrations obviously).

What program are you using to calculate logP and polar surface area?

 

[Friman1987]

Hmm, not looking too good for the aza compounds, especially the ones having a logP of under 1. I had never considered polar surface area as a determining factor in the molecule's ability to penetrate the BBB. I also think size itself would play a big factor; oxygen can cross membranes simply because it's pretty small (and would be in quite large concentrations obviously).

What program are you using to calculate logP and polar surface area?

I use Chemdraw-ultra 12.

You can also use: http://www.molinspiration.com/cgi-bin/properties

 

[aced126]

Ahh, I never knew that program calculated polar surface area. I do use it to calculate logPs however.

 

[Nagelfar]

^intermediate of Doxpicomine (opioid 8× morphine) + Methylphenidate

 

[sekio]

the N-O-CH2-O in a ring gives me the shivers... a cyclic hydroxylamine formaldehyde acetal. That's a mouthful, and again, not very stable around water...

Throw in a nitro group just to please the CYP enzymes and, well, you should design tool compounds for a living Nagelfar. Have you considered volunteer work at Tocris?

 

[Dresden]

The signal to noise ratio on this thread is pretty bad. There are too many structures to sift through them all and only focus on the (few) winners.

 

[aced126]

The signal to noise ratio on this thread is pretty bad. There are too many structures to sift through them all and only focus on the (few) winners.

At least it's better when people at least have a rationale in mind (in my opinion)

 

[Solipsis]

This is the 'I like to draw random molecules' thread and it did start with ADD eminences c.s. drawing MD groups on silly rubbish. I personally like it as well when there is enough rationale behind a drawing to tickle your fancy or funny bone, but if we start considering this the thread where new RCs are invented for shady labs to try and make or whatever else you call strictly winning, then it is your own problem if people don't 'deliver', and it also would head into very dubious directions.
Sometimes it is truly amateur hour, without trying to sound arrogant it is tragic when people almost seem delusional about the whole thing (eg a certain Mr Fin). While not sure whether to laugh or cry, it is pretty entertaining.

 

[aced126]

This is the 'I like to draw random molecules' thread and it did start with ADD eminences c.s. drawing MD groups on silly rubbish. I personally like it as well when there is enough rationale behind a drawing to tickle your fancy or funny bone, but if we start considering this the thread where new RCs are invented for shady labs to try and make or whatever else you call strictly winning, then it is your own problem if people don't 'deliver', and it also would head into very dubious directions.
Sometimes it is truly amateur hour, without trying to sound arrogant it is tragic when people almost seem delusional about the whole thing (eg a certain Mr Fin). While not sure whether to laugh or cry, it is pretty entertaining.

Tbh people do comment if there is an obvious toxicity a new compound poses to health, like the one a while ago (2C-VI). I'd prefer it the RCs which came through had a thorough safety analysis done on them by proper pharmacologists.

 

[Solipsis]

Sure the theory is taken for quite a ride sometimes for hypothetical compounds, but I would be a little pissed if it became frowned upon if structural drawings made here do not go accompanied by a tox analysis. Nice chemistry ideas and even checking pharmacology, is fine... but if we start accepting responsibility too much then we start playing an active role consciously in something this forum is not meant for.
That is not to say I don't feel a calling to help point out potential flaws in ideas. Still that is not the same as really thinking of this as a development and production line, that is way too serious. Regardless of the tox analysis there are also silly and dangerous ideas passing through here, so quality control is hardly possible anyway even if we wanted to. The randomness and silliness should be welcome as ever.

Abusing this thread to sometimes vent a longing for a certain compound or family of chems is a mistake I have made as well, the important point of that is still emphasizing what interests and fascinates and not much else.

@RC safety analysis: we cannot really pretend to have enough of a real grip on the RC market anyway, although I agree that pharmacological or toxicological concerns should definitely be posted asap - but that should be done in a separate NSP thread for each, where actual RC developments are commented on. imho

 

[roi]

Meprylcaine/Dimethocaine hybrid. Certainly a shitty stim.

 

[Solipsis]

Haha gee thanks, can you make any other drugs more cardiotoxic roi? 8)