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I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

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lol, i just clicked on your link after typing this post which is the wiki page which provides a link to the nichols review i mentioned....its a good review on topics being discussed in this thread.
 
izxm2w.png


This just popped up in my head - 6-allyl-6-nor-lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide (al-lsz?). Anyone think it would be active?
 
I'm just going to interrupt briefly to note that this thread has been cultivating surprisingly good, fruitful exchanges lately. Keep it up, guys!

ebola
 
Is it just me or do most LSD analogues only change stuff at one of the nitrogen atoms?

Or how about bk-5-mapb and bk-6-mapb:
xggrxd.png

35hmn8l.jpg
 
Is it just me or do most LSD analogues only change stuff at one of the nitrogen atoms?
No, your right. If you change anything else, it won't be a Lysergamide anymore, and probably won't be active. (Well, both the tryptamine and phenethylamine skeleton is inside of there, so I guess it's not completely impossible, but it won't really be a LSD analog anymore)

That list of lysergamides on wikipedia isn't complete, by the way, there's more than that. After Hoffman invented/discovered LSD he wen't on making analogs with substitutions on R2 and R3. I think he made like 10 different ones there, non as active as LSD though, but most still active in the 500-2000 ug range. (MIPLA, LSM-775, LAE-32 etc) He made one with a acetyl at R1 though, ALD-52.

Shulgin was next, in Tihkal he made a line of LSD analogs based on substitutions on R6. He made something like 6 or 7 there. (the xx-LADs)

It was Nichols who later made the next subs on R2 and R3. Namely LSZ, LSB, LSP.
 
I meant more in the sense that most change either R2 and R3 or R6 or R1. Changes to both R6 and R2/R3 (like that AL-LSZ from my drawing for example) or R1, R2, R3 and R6 (the compound you posted) seem to be rarer. Is there a reason for this (problems with synthesis? inactivity?) or is it simply because nobody has gotten around to doing it?
 
I don't know :)

I think it's mostly a question of synthesis, but it's also because there has been so little research on lysergamide SAR compared to phenethylamines and tryptamines. The hybrid compounds we both drew might very well be inactive, so potentially not worth the trouble/money/time.
 
Well, the LSZ modification is supposed to increase binding, so an additional modification on R6 or R1 that binds fine with LSDs R2 an R3 should still work right? Of course since sar is more of an art... who knows. I guess nobody wants to risk investing in it without knowing it would be good... perhaps one day...
 
^ all tasty looking simple modifications

i would be willing to personally guinea pig all of those other than #6 and #8

#6 might be incredibly stinky... #8 might have pretty different activity

the rest of them though should be pretty similar to ketamine if they have any activity at all
 
Is it just me or do most LSD analogues only change stuff at one of the nitrogen atoms?

Or how about bk-5-mapb and bk-6-mapb:
xggrxd.png

35hmn8l.jpg

With the key exception of mephedrone, has the addition of a beta-ketone ever improved the effects-profile of a recreational drug?* You might be on to something though, insofar as making the APB series less serotonergically selective might hold promise. However, the serotonergic selectivity of these compounds is as of yet up in the air (the one study showing 6apb to lack significant affinity for SERT requires replication, as they got weird results for some of their 'control' compounds, and other studies have found 6apdb and 5apdb to be more serotonergically selective than MDMA).

*I have seen only scattered reports of 4-Me-MA, and 4-Me-A might well be pretty damn fun, but it also appears to be hideously neurotoxic, somewhere between a longer acting MDMA and PCA.

ebola
 
With the key exception of mephedrone, has the addition of a beta-ketone ever improved the effects-profile of a recreational drug?*

Hamilton apparently prefers methcathinone to methamphetamine, and all of the N,N-dialkylated things (which are inevitably mere stimulants, consider eg a-PPP) seem to improve with this modification. It might be closer to say that beta-oxo is no good for serotonergics, and as the empathogenic effects of 6-APB seem to be primarily mediated by 5-ht2b we can probably extend the reasoning there.
 
With the key exception of mephedrone, has the addition of a beta-ketone ever improved the effects-profile of a recreational drug?* You might be on to something though, insofar as making the APB series less serotonergically selective might hold promise. However, the serotonergic selectivity of these compounds is as of yet up in the air (the one study showing 6apb to lack significant affinity for SERT requires replication, as they got weird results for some of their 'control' compounds, and other studies have found 6apdb and 5apdb to be more serotonergically selective than MDMA).

*I have seen only scattered reports of 4-Me-MA, and 4-Me-A might well be pretty damn fun, but it also appears to be hideously neurotoxic, somewhere between a longer acting MDMA and PCA.

ebola
I don't know if improved is the right word, but adding the beta-ketone to 2c-b preserved most of the good effects while extending duration.
 
I don't think improved is the right word, a ten-fold drop in potency and mediocre effects. 2C-B is wildly popular and soughtafter, the ketone analogue is not making waves in the same way. Also, having mentioned para-halogenated cathinones, 4-bromomethcathinone seems to be better than the amphetamine, in that people have used it recreationally and not suffered horrendous neural damage.
 
Hm, I agree about the drop in potency (tho it does last longer), but the effects were, as far as I'm concerned very nice for an entry level psy (to be fair, I didn't get any of the bad effects some have complained about like inconsistency in effects and a headache in the end), especially considering the price and legality. I definitely plan on buying more. Now of course I'd rather have al-lad (or a test batch of al-lsz to see if what looks good on paper actually is good in rl), but to be fair I don't thing they are competing for the same market, one is more of a light psy, while the other is a lsd analogue with all that can bring.

As to the bk-apb versions, I have no idea. I'd like to see them tested, but I have no idea if it would be an improvement or not. Luckily only 5 and 6 apb are illegal in my country, so I can still legally use the others. Speaking of that, I'd like to se 5 and 6 MAPDB tested, perhaps they'd be good like 6-apdb or perhaps nothing special like 5-apdb.
 
Some more silly ideas that probably are way off in terms of what I was going for:
1uI16K8.png
 
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