• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was just thinking about THC Benzoate while listening to 2 Chainz "Hit it with the fork" which is about cooking crack.


So I decided to look up what "Crack" actually is, because there has to be a difference between Cocaine and Crack. So I looked up the two molecules.
Cocaine
250px-Kokain_-_Cocaine.svg.png



Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)
130px-SodiumBicarbonate.svg.png


And it looks like Bicarbonate (Baking soda) is actually an acid or alcohol type structure with lots of reactable oxygens/hydrogens, but it has a magnetic change because a Sodium is polarized to it (not sure if that is the right word), so in essence when you use baking soda you are hitting it with Oxygen, and something that Catalyzes change (Sodium in the presence of certain things makes them change), basically making Cocaine Bicarbonate.

And this reminded me of some stuff I read about Toad Venom (Bufotenine) which when smoked in its natural acidic form (5-Hydroxy-DMT) it has too many react-able oxygens, but when you mix it with edible lime it becomes safe to use (basically the same as DMT) because the Hydroxy is neutralized by being attached to parts of the edible lime.

Now, my question is... With those 2 loose Hydrogens waving around (15 in total actually, I just don't understand what H3C is and how it reacts, because it is not an independent structure), and a Hydroxide (OH) sticking out like a sore thumb, and that oxygen hiding underneath...
620px-Tetrahydrocannabinol.svg.png


Has anyone ever tried THC in its base form?
 
And it looks like Bicarbonate (Baking soda) is actually an acid or alcohol type structure with lots of reactable oxygens/hydrogens, but it has a magnetic change because a Sodium is polarized to it (not sure if that is the right word), so in essence when you use baking soda you are hitting it with Oxygen, and something that Catalyzes change (Sodium in the presence of certain things makes them change), basically making Cocaine Bicarbonate.
Click to expand...

No. Wrong, wrong wrong and wrong again. Bicarbonate is not an alcohol, there's no magnetic charge on bicarbonate, cocaine bicarbonate isn't a stable compound, it's not even sodium that is catalysing the change, etc.

And this reminded me of some stuff I read about Toad Venom (Bufotenine) which when smoked in its natural acidic form (5-Hydroxy-DMT) it has too many react-able oxygens, but when you mix it with edible lime it becomes safe to use (basically the same as DMT) because the Hydroxy is neutralized by being attached to parts of the edible lime.
Click to expand...

Bufotenine is quite smokeable as a freebase, it's only for snuff/nasal use you have to make it into a salt.

Has anyone ever tried THC in its base form?
Click to expand...

That's how it usually is. (It's not an alkaloid.)

Seriously Shaggy, stop posting here, and go take a chemistry course. Your rambling serves only to derail an otherwise fine thread. This is a formal warning. This thread is meant to be random drug structure doodles, not people trying their best to learn chemistry by continually posting incorrect shit over and over.
 
sekio said:
No. Wrong, wrong wrong and wrong again. Bicarbonate is not an alcohol, there's no magnetic charge on bicarbonate, cocaine bicarbonate isn't a stable compound, etc.



Bufotenine is quite smokeable as a freebase, it's only for snuff/nasal use you have to make it into a salt.



That's how it usually is. (It's not an alkaloid.)

Seriously Shaggy, stop posting here, and go take a chemistry course. Your rambling serves only to derail an otherwise fine thread. This is a formal warning. This thread is meant to be random drug structure doodles, not people trying their best to learn chemistry by continually posting incorrect shit over and over.
Click to expand...

As I have said before, I know I word things wrong. (and if you want to correct me, do so, don't just say "wrong wrong wrong")

But you are acting as if crack does not exist.

And I didn't come to this thread, I was merged here. Sorry for whatever inconvenience I have cause by being in your doodle thread. I will be doodling myself soon. I can go make my own thread, but I am sure I would be just sent back here for posting about molecules that don't exist.
 
Here's a picture for flodafinil, a hypothetical experimental nootropic.
t68o3k.png


Here's a picture of what would happen if S-18,986 and amphetamine had a baby.
2ioglk.png


The next to last one is 2C-D-racetam, a hyperthical supernootropic based on 2C-D's nootropic effects at sub-psychedelic doses and the racetams having general nootropic effect. It might cause hallucinations at higher doses.
x1ynph.png


And the last one is a modified tametraline molecule. It might be a triple reuptake inhibiter, sort of like indanylaminopropane and MDxA.
2zjaujt.png
 
Last edited:
ShaggyFin said:
As I have said before, I know I word things wrong. (and if you want to correct me, do so, don't just say "wrong wrong wrong")

But you are acting as if crack does not exist.

And I didn't come to this thread, I was merged here. Sorry for whatever inconvenience I have cause by being in your doodle thread. I will be doodling myself soon. I can go make my own thread, but I am sure I would be just sent back here for posting about molecules that don't exist.
Click to expand...

You don't understand. A chemical HAS TO BE volatile in order to be smoked. Otherwise, the combustion will just destroy the molecule.
 
Thank you Sekio, I for one really appreciate you issuing a warning to that guy. He was really getting under my skin with his total inability to accept being corrected. I really just LOL'ed like crazy here in the Ikea cafeteria when I read his accusation that you were claiming crack doesn't exist. The SIMPLEST of searches into crack would have rectified his misunderstandings, but it seems his M.O. is to make up an explanation for things and then defend said explanations to the death whenever he encounters a concept he is unfamiliar with. Thanks again Sekio, we're all lucky to have you!

Anyway, with that lunacy out of the way, I have some new skeletal formulae to post when I get home in a little while. Some are hilarious, some are frightening, others are intriguing! Stay tuned for another mind-expanding episode of "SeenSoFar high and playing with ChemDraw!"

On Fognl
 
As I have said before, I know I word things wrong. (and if you want to correct me, do so, don't just say "wrong wrong wrong")

But you are acting as if crack does not exist.
Click to expand...

You are not "wording things wrong". You don't actually understand what is happening and you are bullshitting.

Crack is not cocaine bicarbonate. That would make it a salt (positively charged nitrogen and negatively charged counterion). The process of making crack starts with cocaine hydrochloride (aka "powder cocaine"), which technically speaking is a mixture bound at a molecular level of 1 part hydrogen chloride and 1 part cocaine, with the H of the hydrogen chloride being transferred to the N of the cocaine, making a charged compound. Because it's charged, the forces holding individual molecules together are stronger (explaining the higher melting point and why it just decomposes before it boils), and it has a large dipole which allows it to dissolve in polar solvents like water.

The hydrogen transferred to the nitrogen on cocaine can be "removed" by reacting it with a base of some sort - any compound that has an affinity for "free" positively charged hydrogen atoms. This does not have to be bicarbonate, it's just the cheapest and most available base for most people. Other bases like calcium carbonate (chalk), calcium hydroxide (slaked lime, what Peruvians chew along with their coca leaf), sodium hydroxide, even ammonia will work too. The hydrogen chloride is "unbound" from the cocaine when it encounters a compound which would bind it tighter (is a stronger base). This reverts cocaine hydrochloride to "free base" cocaine and, if bicarbonate is used, sodium chloride, water, and carbon dioxide.

See also, acid/base reactions and acid base extractions.

Free base cocaine has a much smaller dipole (is less polar) than cocaine salts are, and can't hydrogen bond very well (hydrogens attached to carbons are too tightly bound), so it prefers to dissolve in organic solvents rather than water, and if there's no organic solvents it will crystallize out. (or layer out as an oil, if the temperature is high enough). Its melting point and boiling point are lower and it can actually be "boiled" with minimal decomposition, because the intermolecular attractions are much weaker (as the free base is not electrically charged).

The base doesn't have to be sodium - sodium does not catalyse anything. You could use lithium hydroxide, potassium carbonate, ammonia, DBU, etc. and you'd still get crack. The base need not contain any oxygen at all. If you want to get risky you could also use sodium metal...

Nowhere does magnetism come into play. Sodium bicarbonate isn't magnetic, nor is cocaine. Nothing is "polarized to" anything else either. In fact, the ions in a dissolved salt can move freely amongst each other. It's only when they become a solid that it takes on a defined lattice.

And this reminded me of some stuff I read about Toad Venom (Bufotenine) which when smoked in its natural acidic form (5-Hydroxy-DMT) it has too many react-able oxygens, but when you mix it with edible lime it becomes safe to use (basically the same as DMT) because the Hydroxy is neutralized by being attached to parts of the edible lime.
Click to expand...

Bufotenin doesn't dissolve in water and is poorly absorbed, so people make it into a calcium salt (the OH on an aromatic ring can sometimes lose its proton - hydrogen atom- and become a negatively charged O- atom). This principle is used to purify morphine, which has the same sort of "phenol" (benzene ring plus OH) group on it.

Now, my question is... With those 2 loose Hydrogens waving around (15 in total actually, I just don't understand what H3C is and how it reacts, because it is not an independent structure), and a Hydroxide (OH) sticking out like a sore thumb, and that oxygen hiding underneath...
Click to expand...

THC has more than 15 hydrogens. It has 30, in fact. When chemists draw skeletal formulas they don't draw and label every single carbon and hydrogen atom all the time - just other atoms. This is called a skeletal formula. It's faster and cleaner than drawing all the atoms because usually organic chemists are only concerned about the relative arrangement of the groups on the skeleton. The hashed and filled wedge lines are indicating which way the bonds go in 3D space - chirality. Not "looseness".

XPgH1c6.png


THC could be made into a salt the same way as bufotenine and the others, but it's still not very water soluble and prefers to reside in an organic solvent than water. See also: polarity and solubility.

Now: go take a chemistry course from somebody other than me. Especially organic chemistry. If you don't understand the drawings you're supposed to be making there's not much hope. A better use of your time than looking up "cool Structures and Catalysts whither to Effect changes Alchemikal in all manner of Patent and Factitious Airs, Manas, Earths, and Spirits" is actually learning chemistry formally.
 
Last edited:
Fin said:
As I have said before, I know I word things wrong. (and if you want to correct me, do so, don't just say "wrong wrong wrong")
Click to expand...

Sekio has been correcting your points rather specifically--I would again reread what he has said. Why don't you try learning some chemistry basics and subsequently ask us questions on the basis of what you have read?


But you are acting as if crack does not exist.
Click to expand...

Not at all. In fact, I have absolutely no idea how sekio's post implied such, or even what such a claim could mean. This again is illustrative of how you need to do more back-reading to render your speculation informed.

And I didn't come to this thread, I was merged here. Sorry for whatever inconvenience I have cause by being in your doodle thread.
Click to expand...

We merged your prior posts into this thread because they lacked sufficient merit to stand on their own.


swamp fox said:
You don't understand. A chemical HAS TO BE volatile in order to be smoked. Otherwise, the combustion will just destroy the molecule.
Click to expand...

This is true but in a sense trivial: the existence of any vapor will reflect a compound's volatility at given conditions of temperature and pressure; given a combination of sufficiently high temperature and low pressure, any compound can vaporize. Whether this occurs at temperatures below combustion at atmospheric pressure in presence of oxygen at atmospheric proportions is a matter of the particular compound's volatility and propensity to oxidize.

ebola
 
Last edited:
I can't think of a compound for which it would not undergo this phase change for all possible combinations of temperature and pressure, and assuming a relatively inert atmosphere; under such conditions, one wouldn't expect oxidization to be an issue.

ebola
 
sdixys.gif


6-alpha-alkylmorphines should be long-acting and in some cases of extreme potency as well if you compare them to orvinols (look at the stereocenter at C19 in orvinols; besides the hydroxy group at C19 is unnecessary if there is a methoxy group at C6 already, compounds with the furan ring fused at C6-C7 were prepared [1]). Unfortunately, the research on 6-alkylmorphines is scarce. Maybe one day... 6-alpha-methylmorphine is doable (as presented in Casy & Parfitt's), it was synthesized in the past, and it's longer acting than morphine. I suppose it's for a similar reason why orvinols are long-acting and in some cases super-potent. And perhaps if there was no additional ring as in orvinols, the compounds would dissociate somewhat faster from the opioid receptors (Edit: well, this presumption may be one step too far at this moment, so let's say they'd be a bit less lipophilic, but still lipophilic enough). 6-alpha-butyl and 6-alpha-isopentyl would need some more work-up, but their potency should be high enough for the mixture of alpha and beta isomers to still be two magnitudes more potent than morphine, and that actually means without separation they could be done almost in the kitchen with the right knowledge. The fourth compound, 6-acetyl-6-alpha-alkylmorphine or some other ester, is a related compound, and it could be used if it turned out that the separation is cost-inefficient. Still, I think that it would be possible to get the right isomer with the methods currently known.

I've got a lot of ideas, but I've changed my mind on sharing such thoughts. RC vendors set on making money are waiting out there all the time for such ideas to show up, and most of them aren't chemists or pharmacologists, but entrepreneurs who don't care much about the quality of their products as long as their clients are happy high. I've learned it the hard way and I don't want to contribute to that.8)
 
I'm sorry shaggy. I kind of admire your persistence but you really, really need to take a step back and learn the fundamentals before diving in. It's gotten to the point where your persistence is now working against you and as usual, greatly frustrating those trying to help you.
ZRN8nRfm.jpg


These are my favourite quotes:

when someone made their hash with Acetone/Denatonium Benzoate and it made the hash bitter (I assume they tried it because they give an example), they commented that Denatonium Benzoate is used to Denature alcohol, and maybe "Denatured" the THC.
Click to expand...
As seiko pointed out, the bitterness is simply because of denatonium benzoate contamination.



I just found an interesting acid, could be helpful in catalyzing some interesting things, it's a basically Benzoic acid structure with extra Hydroxides for extra fun (meaning possibilities).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_acid
Click to expand...
Chemistry - now with added fun.


it looks like Bicarbonate (Baking soda) is actually an acid or alcohol type structure with lots of reactable oxygens/hydrogens, but it has a magnetic change because a Sodium is polarized to it (not sure if that is the right word)
Click to expand...




And of course, any mention of aromaticity.
 
Last edited:
ebola? said:
I can't think of a compound for which it would not undergo this phase change for all possible combinations of temperature and pressure, and assuming a relatively inert atmosphere; under such conditions, one wouldn't expect oxidization to be an issue.

ebola
Click to expand...

such a compound has not been invented yet, but i think it might be possible for there to be a substance that is a non-volatile solid at all temperatures.

neutron star material maybe =p
 
Polymers like polyethylene, silicones, PEG etc be essentially nonvolatile at essentially all pressures if they're big enough; if you try to "distill" them they will thermally crack to smaller molecules even without oxygen.
 
I think that would be 3,4-EthyleneAmphetamine, like the desmethoxy sister of 2C-G-2 (just G2?). I imagine synth would be pretty difficult because of the ring strain
 
image.png


1: AKB-48 with a fluorophenyl instead of a fluoropentyl side chain
2: AKB-48 with a cylcolhexyl instead of a pentyl chain (like BB22)
3: JWH250 Indazole-analogue
4: JWH250 with phenyl-pyrrole instead of indole

I´d love to see more JWH-250 analogues, imo it´s one of the best Cannabinoids with almost no side effects.
 
Last edited:
This might be a cooler, more potent nootropic than CX-546. I call it PP-028 (or Piperonyl Piperidine, Piperonylic Piperidine).
10d87ll.png

Here's 2C-D-Nifiram.
315ietx.png

The last molecule is just for fun. It probably doesn't do anything. 4-Cyclohexyl-2m2bOH(4-Cyclohexyl-2-methyl-2-butanol)
8ygi1j.png


I don't have chemdraw, so I use paint.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top