Venting I just hate being sober

[Mushoku_Sensei]

So I'm done, the last minor physical WD is over, and I'm forced to stay clean for another two days bc I came here for a tolerance break and didn't check my carry on stash . Then found out it takes some fkn 4-6 weeks to bring Tramadol tolerance to baseline, while every other opioid takes 2 weeks max. ... So it was all for nothing again. Like spacing out my doses ( yeah not enough ik by now). But anyways it doesn't matter why, but fact is I actually started believing my life wasn't as bad - while I still had drugs - and I could just stop and go on eventually...

Missed by far again... Looks like my life is still AS emotionally taxing as it was before... Which was why I started taking drugs in the first place.
Now I don't sleep for being dissatisfied and unhappy rather than wd or side effects or still too high or whatever and it's no better.
Another thing is that I'm obviously better at getting done what needs to be done when doped
But the worst is by far the internal pressure that comes out again.. might be connected to spring as well, cause autumn and spring are often more difficult emotionally. But likely it's more due to being sober and getting bored and really lonely. Ig it's normal but I seriously don't want to feel it. No need. I refuse. This goddamn shit should have died together with my youth ffs
What on earth do I still have human needs for when I have kids to take care of!?! No way to fulfill them anyway
So yeah. There need to be things to look forward to in life imo. Didn't have much of that the last 13 years... Now I have access to all kinds of drugs at least So I ordered myself a little gift...
Fun fact: "Gift" in German = "Poison" (how very fitting indeed )
After all I need some "sun" in my life - "Sonne", the Rammstein version please...

PS: I just smiled and am feeling better already. Writing IS therapy after all...

 

[shreddedlettuce]

Another thing is that I'm obviously better at getting done what needs to be done when doped

Take a couple a minutes and think this through.... do you really think this is the case, or is this "just getting by", whilst being kinda happy?

Not judging, but that sentence somehow got me to respond, and I could be way off track.

Glad you made the post though, as you finished it off on a positive.

 

[chippermonk]

The physical WD may be over, but obviously the mental part isn't. That takes awhile If you really are wanting to give being sober and " normal" a shot, then I'd say have some patience with yourself, and give yourself more time. Whatever reason you had for recently quitting is just going to come back when you start up again, you know?
Kids are cool. They kept me grounded when they were young. How old are they?
Good luck

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Take a couple a minutes and think this through.... do you really think this is the case, or is this "just getting by", whilst being kinda happy?

Not judging, but that sentence somehow got me to respond, and I could be way off track.

Glad you made the post though, as you finished it off on a positive.

Hey, thanks for the reply.
You certainly have a point there... For the longest time it was probably just that. My bad mood not interfering with the stuff in front of me. But later it turned into some sort of "on and off"-switch, where I could work like a robot "on" and otherwise I'd just hang in there, dragging myself along by force... Ok. Sounds a lot like dependence now ... This whole thing went way further than planned originally and by now I can't even remember what it was like before
Dang...

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

The physical WD may be over, but obviously the mental part isn't. That takes awhile If you really are wanting to give being sober and " normal" a shot, then I'd say have some patience with yourself, and give yourself more time.

It definitely isn't ... And I kinda made sure that I won't stay sober for very long... At least not this time... Sounds damn stupid I know but all I wanted was to bring my tolerance down, which didn't even work either.

Whatever reason you had for recently quitting is just going to come back when you start up again, you know?

True... It was the point where I lost the ability to function at all without taking something even for a short time. That's sort of my limit that I didn't want to cross... Therefore the WD... And I'm aware that I'm prone to lose it rather quickly now despite the effort

Kids are cool. They kept me grounded when they were young. How old are they?
Good luck

Thank you and yes they do: stop me from bingeing, allowing myself to nod out for hours during daytime and generally smooth out the more suicidal urges. They're 11 and 4 now, and they are a blessing. But it's also very real that there's no offspring without significant sacrifice. That's the reason why I preferred a zombie marriage to separation for the last decade or so...

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I'm wondering if maybe antidepressant treatment could help with your depression and anxiety. That was a major reason I used. I know tramadol has some antidepressant qualities. From what I understand Germany has a lot of services to help people.

 

[chippermonk]

I understand feeling the need to stick it out in a zombie marriage ( great expression, by the way) but that ain't easy or good for mood stabilization. Which of course you know already.

 

[chippermonk]

Also, just from my experience, opioids do great at relieving depression and improving mood in the sort term moment of being high. No lie, I love them for that.
But, man, it quickly and easily becomes so counterproductive using them for that. The absolute opposite of what I want. I hate not being fully present and aware in my personal relationships. And opiates can make me so damn irritable. It was tough with my kids and I learned that I had to avoid them. Of course now I have no kids around and it has become harder for me to say no . But I just can't really function as a social person if I'm high everyday, so I battle it
By the way, echoing what @AlphaMethylPhenyl said, tramadol really seems to me, personally, to act like an antidepressant, but coming down from it really launches me in an opposite direction of despair. I am super cautious about using it for that reason. I had some decent luck with prozac. Not perfect, but it seemed to help me at a difficult time in my life

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

I'm wondering if maybe antidepressant treatment could help with your depression and anxiety. That was a major reason I used. I know tramadol has some antidepressant qualities. From what I understand Germany has a lot of services to help people.

Anxiety is not the issue really. That's probably also why I have yet to find a benzo that would do anything but make me sleep on it's own... I don't even qualify for depression if I look at any of the scanning tools. The only medical diagnosis that might fit is called something like " failure to adjust" directly translated.
Yes there are offers but they all have lengthy waiting lists... And are not eligible when addiction is involved. I don't think they're for me really.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

So I'm done, the last minor physical WD is over, and I'm forced to stay clean for another two days bc I came here for a tolerance break and didn't check my carry on stash . Then found out it takes some fkn 4-6 weeks to bring Tramadol tolerance to baseline, while every other opioid takes 2 weeks max. ... So it was all for nothing again. Like spacing out my doses ( yeah not enough ik by now). But anyways it doesn't matter why, but fact is I actually started believing my life wasn't as bad - while I still had drugs - and I could just stop and go on eventually...

Missed by far again... Looks like my life is still AS emotionally taxing as it was before... Which was why I started taking drugs in the first place.
Now I don't sleep for being dissatisfied and unhappy rather than wd or side effects or still too high or whatever and it's no better.
Another thing is that I'm obviously better at getting done what needs to be done when doped
But the worst is by far the internal pressure that comes out again.. might be connected to spring as well, cause autumn and spring are often more difficult emotionally. But likely it's more due to being sober and getting bored and really lonely. Ig it's normal but I seriously don't want to feel it. No need. I refuse. This goddamn shit should have died together with my youth ffs
What on earth do I still have human needs for when I have kids to take care of!?! No way to fulfill them anyway
So yeah. There need to be things to look forward to in life imo. Didn't have much of that the last 13 years... Now I have access to all kinds of drugs at least So I ordered myself a little gift...
Fun fact: "Gift" in German = "Poison" (how very fitting indeed )
After all I need some "sun" in my life - "Sonne", the Rammstein version please...

PS: I just smiled and am feeling better already. Writing IS therapy after all...

Gonna be honest, I'm too high to read all of that right now (WILL come back to it when my eyes start behaving again and agree to focus on the writing), but I agree. I HATE being sober, too. And it's not just WD or even PAWS because I once had 19 months sobriety and still didn't like it. I didn't, like, HATE IT WITH A PASSION like in PAWS, but....it just wasn't for me.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Also, just from my experience, opioids do great at relieving depression and improving mood in the sort term moment of being high. No lie, I love them for that.

Same. 100%

But, man, it quickly and easily becomes so counterproductive using them for that. The absolute opposite of what I want. I hate not being fully present and aware in my personal relationships. And opiates can make me so damn irritable. It was tough with my kids and I learned that I had to avoid them. Of course now I have no kids around and it has become harder for me to say no . But I just can't really function as a social person if I'm high everyday, so I battle it

I get that, the irritability happens to me as well, BUT I come from an emotional state where I used to shout more than I would speak because of permanent irritation - so it's by no means worse. The opposite is true still. Since I use opioids for self- medication everyone including my kids told me it has become a lot better... . So you see, I really don't want to return to that.

By the way, echoing what @AlphaMethylPhenyl said, tramadol really seems to me, personally, to act like an antidepressant, but coming down from it really launches me in an opposite direction of despair. I am super cautious about using it for that reason. I had some decent luck with prozac. Not perfect, but it seemed to help me at a difficult time in my life

Tramadol is an SNRI and as such definitely an antidepressant. And despite having to increase my doses to more than double on top of all kinds of boosters and potentially harmful combinations I never used it daily, thus the on and off effect. I was even seriously considering to get something like a "real" antidepressant for the rotation days to avoid it. Or to use Kanna for that maybe... Or just cave in and use it daily after all . But then I wouldn't get high anymore and that's currently unacceptable Alas my attempt to withdraw - and the snake bites it's tail...

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Gonna be honest, I'm too high to read all of that right now (WILL come back to it when my eyes start behaving again and agree to focus on the writing), but I agree. I HATE being sober, too. And it's not just WD or even PAWS because I once had 19 months sobriety and still didn't like it. I didn't, like, HATE IT WITH A PASSION like in PAWS, but....it just wasn't for me.

Now that's a statement. And I'll be waiting for your return

 

[4DQSAR]

It can take a while for your body to readjust. In my case, a year. But I look back and reflect that a year later I could look back and say to myself 'I DO feel better not to be trapped by a drug'. It IS a freedom that most people take for granted. Only those of us who have been addicted to a drug realize that it does take away one's freedom. Often in subtle ways, but added up, a lot of freedom.

 

[chippermonk]

Same. 100%

I get that, the irritability happens to me as well, BUT I come from an emotional state where I used to shout more than I would speak because of permanent irritation - so it's by no means worse. The opposite is true still. Since I use opioids for self- medication everyone including my kids told me it has become a lot better... . So you see, I really don't want to return to that.

Tramadol is an SNRI and as such definitely an antidepressant. And despite having to increase my doses to more than double on top of all kinds of boosters and potentially harmful combinations I never used it daily, thus the on and off effect. I was even seriously considering to get something like a "real" antidepressant for the rotation days to avoid it. Or to use Kanna for that maybe... Or just cave in and use it daily after all . But then I wouldn't get high anymore and that's currently unacceptable Alas my attempt to withdraw - and the snake bites it's tail...

Well, that's an endorsement if your kids approve!
Can you get guys get kratom in Germany? I'm not saying kraton is a miracle great thing, and you certainly can get tolerance and addiction, but it feels a little less harsh for me. But you can find a lot of varying opinions about it, the jury is still out for me. Then again, a LOT of people on BL don't think highly of tramadol. Maybe ( dunno) you could use it in a rotation with tramadol. But then again, all opiate type drugs have cross tolerance. Best might be to find a non opiate drug to intersperse. I like taking methylphenidate in a very low dose once in awhile for a non-opioid mood boost, but I can't get it easily at all.
In general, I try to stick to low doses of everything when I take it. So for tramadol, I never take more than 50 mg. Kratom 2g
Good luck, let us know how it goes. Your situation is not that uncommon, I'm sure others can benefit from your experience. I know it resonates for me, though mine is more of a depression perhaps.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

It can take a while for your body to readjust. In my case, a year. But I look back and reflect that a year later I could look back and say to myself 'I DO feel better not to be trapped by a drug'. It IS a freedom that most people take for granted. Only those of us who have been addicted to a drug realize that it does take away one's freedom. Often in subtle ways, but added up, a lot of freedom.

Yes it is a freedom. I lost the first part the moment I started using - the freedom to be able to share what's on your mind with anyone you like. It's a painful cut, and that never fully healed for me ever since I was young. The addiction itself, to be quite frank, is something that I'm only gradually accepting. Like it took me a full month to finally give up trying to keep my doses constant, when my tolerance was already way beyond what could be covered by whatever combination of other substances....
There is a morbid attraction to giving up free will involved here as well though.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Well, that's an endorsement if your kids approve!

Oh they wouldn't approve of me taking drugs... But they noticed the improvement

Can you get guys get kratom in Germany?

Yes we can!
I don't think it's legal but no problem really. I still have some and will be getting more tomorrow. The thing is that it can treat WD but I find it hard to get much of a high out of it since I grew significant tolerance. It does have serotonergic properties as well so it actually treats all aspects of Tram wd

But then again, all opiate type drugs have cross tolerance. Best might be to find a non opiate drug to intersperse. I like taking methylphenidate in a very low dose once in awhile for a non-opioid mood boost, but I can't get it easily at all.

Mph doesn't get me high, like I generally don't get much out of the stims I tried besides staying awake and very unwanted weight loss. I use pregabalin+ benzos to intersperse, usually combined, since as I said benzos alone don't do much for me, sometimes with caffeine cause they tend to put me to sleep.
Edit: It's worth mentioning that I can't do that every second day. It's once or maximum twice a week or I have to increase doses for that as well.

In general, I try to stick to low doses of everything when I take it. So for tramadol, I never take more than 50 mg. Kratom 2g

It's great if you can keep them low. I recently checked my January dose log and was really shocked by the sheer numer of substances I would take in a single day just because I couldn't accept that there was no way around increasing the doses anymore... I would easily reach 7-9 and it didn't do me any good. So my most important project of harm reduction is still trying to reduce the mixing....

Good luck, let us know how it goes. Your situation is not that uncommon, I'm sure others can benefit from your experience. I know it resonates for me, though mine is more of a depression perhaps.

Thank you, man And btw. I wish you luck as well.

 

[chippermonk]

It's great if you can keep them low. I recently checked my January dose log and was really shocked by the sheer numer of substances I would take in a single day just because I couldn't accept that there was no way around increasing the doses anymore... I would easily reach 7-9 and it didn't do me any good. So my most important project of harm reduction is still trying to reduce the mixing....

Thank you, man And btw. I wish you luck as well.

I think it's great that you are keeping a dose log. Sounds like German efficiency And, yeah, mixing stuff definitely can have unexpected and unknown consequences.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

I think it's great that you are keeping a dose log. Sounds like German efficiency And, yeah, mixing stuff definitely can have unexpected and unknown consequences.

Oh yeah, and it's quite insightful to look back sometimes - btw. thanks for reminding me to make a safety copy, I mean it. After all, what kind of amateur genocide is that, if there are no government reports on it, right? Dw, I'm not a killer, at least not intentionally nor do I appreciate wars, but all those tictocs about Germany (and other countries) are really funny sometimes and I like me some spicy dark cabaret

 

[HealingEnergy14]

So I'm done, the last minor physical WD is over, and I'm forced to stay clean for another two days bc I came here for a tolerance break and didn't check my carry on stash . Then found out it takes some fkn 4-6 weeks to bring Tramadol tolerance to baseline, while every other opioid takes 2 weeks max. ... So it was all for nothing again. Like spacing out my doses ( yeah not enough ik by now). But anyways it doesn't matter why, but fact is I actually started believing my life wasn't as bad - while I still had drugs - and I could just stop and go on eventually...

Missed by far again... Looks like my life is still AS emotionally taxing as it was before... Which was why I started taking drugs in the first place.
Now I don't sleep for being dissatisfied and unhappy rather than wd or side effects or still too high or whatever and it's no better.
Another thing is that I'm obviously better at getting done what needs to be done when doped
But the worst is by far the internal pressure that comes out again.. might be connected to spring as well, cause autumn and spring are often more difficult emotionally. But likely it's more due to being sober and getting bored and really lonely. Ig it's normal but I seriously don't want to feel it. No need. I refuse. This goddamn shit should have died together with my youth ffs
What on earth do I still have human needs for when I have kids to take care of!?! No way to fulfill them anyway
So yeah. There need to be things to look forward to in life imo. Didn't have much of that the last 13 years... Now I have access to all kinds of drugs at least So I ordered myself a little gift...
Fun fact: "Gift" in German = "Poison" (how very fitting indeed )
After all I need some "sun" in my life - "Sonne", the Rammstein version please...

PS: I just smiled and am feeling better already. Writing IS therapy after all...

You can try to take the edge off with Kava Kava or Amanita Muscaria.

Both of them aren't physically addictive, Kava can give you a nice high while it has some side-effects (stomach issues for me) and A.M. powder can give a nice relaxation in a low dose.

Helps to get through the day.


P.S.

I definitely understand your feelings with hating being sober. Had that feeling for most of my adult life and it has become especially pronounced after my Tramadol/O-DSMT addiction. Be careful with that stuff please!

 

[4DQSAR]

I think it worth mentioning that both of the materials mentioned by @HealingEnergy14 require some preparation to be safe. I'm uncertain if there is an accepted standard to which pre-processed forms are certified.