I have a theory about homosexuality.

[MrRoot]

I had a discussion with a person who has done studies about a evolution of mammals.
In one point I brought up an idea about homosexuality actually leading into more offspring able to survive. Throughout the history and prehistory it has been a task of women to nurse the children. Therefore in a situation where a situation arises that there for more children that the women cant deal with, some people turn to gay and take after the children and in somehow are then attracted to same sex.

That did make a sense for him and we have afterwards had discussions about that idea trough email. I will definately check my email and post them here if I he gives permission for that.

Also homosexuality cannot be a simple mutation as it would not pass to the next generation.

Also the OP seems to think that evolution is some kind of process saving the planet. It is not. It is a simply a theory about how different species evolve to get more biomass and does not involve any balancing mechanism. They just continue to grow until they get eaten completely by others or their food diminishes.

 

[panic in paradise]

And yes, in so many words, love.

amazing... there is a lot of value in what you said, i feel the need to read it again before responding actually, but check this out -

_____________________________________
i suppose now is the time to go a head and spill it,`~);-D

... i tried the gehy once... lol-ohhgeeZ. dont tell any-1

and im sorry to start breaking hearts, in all honesty though-hahah-it wasn't for me... simple. i have always had a sense of 'pride', hidden about it for different reasons. there wasn't anything i could see odd about it, although yes there were limits.

with safety in mind and proven, and with much consideration it was as if thinking; " okay, ive had Wine, now ill try beer " i didn't care for it (well you know what i mean) ... and that was that*shrugs.

what was said about estrogen, and bio-chem balances i do put value into, and personally feel a strong feminine-type appreciation or insight/view into things. i have heard numerous times that if your 'pointer' finger is longer then your 'index' finger, that this is an indicator of an abundance of testosterone - only valid for males; i have this also...

 

[muvolution]

Yeah, I've definitely had sex with men although i don't even consider myself bisexual. If you are aware, enlightened, and curious, I don't really see how you could make it through life without trying at least once.
If you are capable of love for your fellow beings regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation, at some point your love will take you beyond a platonic friendship and into an intimate experience. I feel sorry for people who fear this or avoid it, as you are missing out on a celebration of human sexuality and an experience everyone should be open to.
I think one of the reasons that this doesn't happen more is that with guys especially, we are so closed to new sexual experiences due to homophobia and the stigma of "being gay." In truth, sexuality is fluid, and to ignore that fact is to go through the world with blinders on.
I don't think anyone would ever mistake me for a gay man, but when i talk about sexuality i tend to get alot of shit from people who aren't aware that in addition to the several men I have had sexual experiences with, I've also slept with nearly 200 women, so in reality it is everyone else feeling inadequate and homophobic - leaving them to miss out on a key experience in life.

Enki - I don't think i was born sprinkled with fairy dust, I just found someone else's stash and IV'd that shit. / NDTITL

 

[panic in paradise]

^lol
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awesome --- liberation

 

[Paul Muad Dib]

I not sure if this is the best place for this so can mods please move it if it's wrong.
Okay so first off I just want to make it clear that I am a firm believer in evolution and that I believe gay people are born gay with no choice of their own. So here if my theory, as a result of evolution more and more people will be born gay. I believe that this is a way to effectively cut the human population therefore reducing the harm done to earth that will otherwise see the end of the human race. What do you think about that idea?

It's not like evolution is some kind of selfaware process that wants to protect earth from harm - if by fucking up nature we can provide a minimum of existence to ourselves then there will be nothing standing in the way the human race. Plus, by which process should homosexuality become more frequent? I mean, they are not more succesfull in their reproduction, so it doesn't really make sense. Unless perhaps, it is caused by chemicals or polution, but then it seems to be explained without introducing theleology into natures ways

 

[panic in paradise]

^
heheh (im certain you personally PMD are aware of this but i couldnt resist) - i feel i must say that IME, gay men & women can indeed have babies; i also feel strongly that they make great parents in many ways especially considering the sense of empathy; openness/awareness/honesty; (-;and;-D creativity actually.

... and to ignore that fact is to go through the world with blinders on.
I don't think anyone would ever mistake me for a gay man, but when i talk about sexuality i tend to get alot of shit from people who aren't aware

Enki - I don't think i was born sprinkled with fairy dust, I just found someone else's stash and IV'd that shit. / NDTITL

^the 'fairy-dust-action' was too funny to not quote again...


i can convince people quickly, effortlessly speaking a few sentences that i am gay(?lol?), and sometimes (this is just incredible to me) if i impersonate a "gay" person , joking around with a long-time friend in instances; they become startled in ways - lol- actually questioning in reality my ''sexuality'' ?!?

IDK, sounds strange i realize, but is astonishing to 'see'. for myself this truly seems equally as shocking or more so in reality; how whom-ever that is and was interacting in the same context 'joking around or w/e' can then be so easily swayed, after years of 'knowing' each-other... only by simply altering my voice, adding emphasis here and there - with nothing connotative in far less then a minute; with the 'voice';-) a tone - this is enough to create A totally new perception of the prior stable conceived reality that has stood between two people for how-ever long.

its kind of scary, and sad really...

 

[TheAppleCore]

I didn't read the whole thread, by the way.


OP, I think you have a little bit of a misunderstanding of the nature of evolution. Evolution doesn't have the power to shape a species to prepare it for the future. It can only alter a species to be better suited for survival in the present.

 

[panic in paradise]

i think this over-all 'problem', and other similar ones wouldnt be if they hadnt been for a while already.


we seem out of room as of now or tomorrow, there is no more expanding in our common sense as we know it - with much of anything we have we are scrambling to fix; housing; work places; technology; resources; books; air-space; the environment and on etc.

 

[sssssssssss]

lol

Sexuality is part of your ego which is your biased decisions you have collected from you environment as you grow up. The decisions are the result from getting a reaction out of people when you do things that you think you should do.
If you can drop your ego, you can change your sexuality. But its hard being someone other than who you have been ur whole life which is why people say your born gay. But its not a choice like how you choose at a restaurant either.

and i think people are so set on saying you are born with it because it justifies why they are what they are and will ease their view on where they fit into society.
and the reason its such a big deal, i think, is because many people lie to themselves cause they arent an extreme on the kinsley scale either and are scared to admit it from seeing how society views it. cause if they are mocking it, then its something they are not.

 

[Flickering]

It's not like evolution is some kind of selfaware process that wants to protect earth from harm - if by fucking up nature we can provide a minimum of existence to ourselves then there will be nothing standing in the way the human race. Plus, by which process should homosexuality become more frequent? I mean, they are not more succesfull in their reproduction, so it doesn't really make sense. Unless perhaps, it is caused by chemicals or polution, but then it seems to be explained without introducing theleology into natures ways

Exactly. The idea of something deliberately tweaking the human psyche to make it more adaptable is a very skewed take on evolution. Especially because, as was mentioned, homosexuality is not genetic.

There aren't going to be more gay or asexual people born to help reduce the population. If there is an increase in people who don't reproduce, it's most likely a coincidence and nothing to do with a benevolent Mother Nature helping the species survive.

Also, whoever said homosexuality is caused by too much estrogen in the brain, please back that up.

 

[Ravr]

Did you theory factor in bisexuals?:D

 

[panic in paradise]

maybe its more about evolving away from fear/judgment, superstitions, and taboo.

this includes the girls too i believe, and the bi's Ravr, yes the all.

 

[twentysix]

error to function. why else? in the creation of things, things collide with on levels sometimes (closer to always) devastating consequences, split apart, and it leads to what we're experiencing now, somehow- sometimes. on one "level" you're fulfilling a perfect job, no matter. on another, you're a constant sacrifice... but for what? error. why else function? error isn't error, all there is is function, in that regard.

 

[panic in paradise]

form and funtion

 

[psychomimetic]

I don't understand the connection you're making with evolution.

1. The planet itself doesn't evolve as it isn't an organism.

2. Humans wouldn't evolve to keep us from overpopulating because there is currently no need for us to stop breeding so much. We have plenty of resources and our actions won't bring about serious crises for another 50-200 years probably. Organisms don't preemptively evolve, evolution works through disasters, partially, but only after they happen (or while they're happening).

On top of that, I don't think more people are born gay now then ever were before.

Also, homosexuality appears in nature a lot, it's not just humans that are often gay. I don't think homosexuality has anything to do with evolution, except that most homosexual men and women don't have biological children. Many do though, which is another issue with your theory, it doesn't factor in the fact that many gay men and women do have biological children through artificial insemination.

 

[Jamshyd]

It appears that the sum-total of humanity's scientific-knowledge is simply not currently enough to explain the reason behind same-sex attraction. For this reason, it is pointless to come up with philosophical theories using the language of science (eg. "evolutionary traits") because such a jargon is essentially meaningless outside of the science that necessitated its creation - and I assume we have just finished agreeing that we just don't have enough science on this issue to make anything out of its jargon.

Leaving science alone, it appears that man-luvin' is one of the few things that religions never really tried to explain either. Many of them condemn it, yes, but none of the major religions actually attempts to explain so as to give it legitimacy.

As such, I suppose it is very tempting to assume that, being one of the few things that defy science AND spirituality, we must then be SO special as to require apocalyptic events before humanity can begin to comprehend our raison d'etre. It makes sense, given the above-average size of our numbers amongst historically-grand personages.



*un-fluffs feathers*... j/k about the last paragraph.

 

[ebola?]

I'm not quite as...'epistemologically pessimistic?' as Jamshyd, but I agree that most of the explanations are bunk...many of them evolutionary and post-hoc, most assume heterosexuality as 'default', and nearly all ignore just how 'new' sexual orientations as we now think of them are (one may desire without taking on an identity).

From time immemorial, same-gender mammals have exchanged sexual favors. This could simply be an extension of our drive to affiliate, our 'lust' if you will. I consider this explanation sufficient to explain what our closest cousins, the Bonobos, are up to.

So why aren't humans rampantly bisexual? There's no necessary trade-off between same-gender fucking and procreation....

ebola

 

[clubberdude]

Humans have way more defects and psychological issues then nature, and being gay is just simply being born with too much estrogen (for males) in the brain. In nature you don't see queer animals, and rarely as many birth defects or brain defects then in humans.

That's actually somewhat untrue. Homosexuality has been observed in many species of mammals. Although its a wikipedia page, this gives a list of mammalian species which have demonstrated homosexual behaviour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

 

[panic in paradise]

As such, I suppose it is very tempting to assume that, being one of the few things that defy science AND spirituality, we must then be SO special as to require apocalyptic events before humanity can begin to comprehend our raison d'etre. It makes sense, given the above-average size of our numbers amongst historically-grand personages.



*un-fluffs feathers*... j/k about the last paragraph.

lmao
.....

actually, iim not SO surprised you said that, seems the worse part is how people will drive themselves into the ground; "par crainte de crainte" - trying to find substance in their life thinking they are learning the same fear into others.

... this could start the humming of a well organized, timely fashioned, revolt frfrom all directions!
:-x

So why aren't humans rampantly bisexual? There's no necessary trade-off between same-gender fucking and procreation....

ebola

this too -
its almost cleche with some to say in so many words - we do usually seek for some sort of loyal role in a cause or belief, after some bending or breaking of the 'rules' we find our own, and it seems more often then not an individuality from a structure.

 

[qwe]

I not sure if this is the best place for this so can mods please move it if it's wrong.
Okay so first off I just want to make it clear that I am a firm believer in evolution and that I believe gay people are born gay with no choice of their own. So here if my theory, as a result of evolution more and more people will be born gay. I believe that this is a way to effectively cut the human population therefore reducing the harm done to earth that will otherwise see the end of the human race. What do you think about that idea?

the hypothesis does not work at all when you consider how evolution works. genes change over a long period of time... you need many generations of a species to pass for genetic mutations to go in any particular "direction" and amount to any change.

1. The planet itself doesn't evolve as it isn't an organism.

well, you could expect a planet to tend to "restore equilibrium" in many situations, since there are so many complex systems interacting.