I hate suboxone

[thugpassion]

You just need to give it some time, its not instant releaf. Some time it takes 4 days or more to get back to close to normal. But once you do the shit is a life saver.

 

[brianxymox]

You just need to give it some time, its not instant releaf. Some time it takes 4 days or more to get back to close to normal. But once you do the shit is a life saver.

That's good to hear, as I've stated previously. I guess what really gets me, is the whole "normal" thing. Normal to me is being high... it's one of the greatest reasons I'm having such a hard time being "normal". I have no fucking clue what normal is for me because I've been high waaay longer then I haven't in the last 10 years or so. You know, on dope, I'm a hard-working, confident, intelligent, and creative person who laughs in the face of the word "meek". The dopeless me is much more reserved and over-analytical. I also just feel weak, and that in turn is a huge blow to my stupid fucking ego. All my senses come back in full swing, and I hate it. I hate feeling this much, so much. Ughhh. Patience Daniel-San, patience!

 

[sixpartseven]

I was simply amazed when my friend insuffulated (sp?) 8 mg's and got pinpoint pupils and went to the land of nod for a couple hours. The jealousy was strong within me!!! Not really, but I just couldn't believe that I, at one point in life, could get high off of 10 mgs oxycodone/hydrocodone and 30mgs codiene, hahahaha. It's such a bitch to see people ope'd out at a party from taking a few vicodin or percocet. I actually had 5 people pleading with me not to snort an OC 80 at a party because they were sure I was going to OD. I even had someone come up and try to tell me, 80 mgs oc is way more powerful then any vicodin or percocet I'd taken, and that I was probably confusing the APAP with how many milligrams of oxy I was used to taking. I have to give him props for the good advice, but that was something I had known 6 years prior. I still hear people saying they are on "1200 mgs of oxy" when they read the acetamenophin part of the number instead of the narcotic number of mg's before it. I never hesitate to explain it to them regardless if I steal their thunder, because it's sad that kids shovel shit down their throats without researching it, and end up thinking an 80 mg oxy won't do shit to them when they have taken up to 1500 mg's (5-15 mgs actual opiate) before, and end up dead as a doorknob, or getting their stomachs pumped.

Its all because of tolerence. Increasing your dosage of methadone by 40mg will get you high, but it fucks you over. Eventually the methadone stops getting you high. Its not abnormal. It happens to everyone on methadone.

Same with suboxone. If your tolerence is low enough, it wil get you high. People like us though, who had large tolerences to other opiates, do not get high from it. Its the way it is.

It shouldnt matter anyways. If you truely want to be clean, then you should be glad you arent getting high. IT shouldnt be a deciding factor in what you do. If it is, then why even get clean?

Just stick with the suboxone and work your shit out. None of this is any drugs doing. You need to get counseling and work out the issues you have, while still taking the suboxone to assist you in completing your goals.

 

[brianxymox]

Its all because of tolerence. Increasing your dosage of methadone by 40mg will get you high, but it fucks you over. Eventually the methadone stops getting you high. Its not abnormal. It happens to everyone on methadone.

Same with suboxone. If your tolerence is low enough, it wil get you high. People like us though, who had large tolerences to other opiates, do not get high from it. Its the way it is.

It shouldnt matter anyways. If you truely want to be clean, then you should be glad you arent getting high. IT shouldnt be a deciding factor in what you do. If it is, then why even get clean?

Just stick with the suboxone and work your shit out. None of this is any drugs doing. You need to get counseling and work out the issues you have, while still taking the suboxone to assist you in completing your goals.

I hear you man, and I appreciate the advice, but based on the fact I haven't really stated why I'm on these bupe's in the first place, you can't assume I'm trying to lead a completely H free life. I'm basically trying to not spend so much money on junk by knocking my tolerance down over a month or two... or three (depending on how much I can stand) so I can use the bupe's during the week, and chip with the H on the weekends. It's going okay thus far, but after two inpatient programs at 12,000 bucks a pop, and over 10 detoxes... a completely sober future isn't something forseeable to me. I was actually able to go 6 and a half months a year ago being clean and hitting up all these na/aa meetings, but then I got a job and a significant other and couldn't make time for meetings in between the 10 hour 5 days a week work schedule. Not only that, those meetings are a fucking drag, and they are negative a best when you hear a majority of people's stories. I know many people will call me stupid for thinking I can succesfully chip, but here's how it is. It's either I learn how to chip, and be happy with just being mostly "well" during the week at work, or I go full blown into a habit I can't support financially or mentally. This shit has a terrible grip on me, and I don't feel the slightest ashmed admitting it here, because I know the path is well worn with others shoeprints taking the same road I'm ceaselessly meandering about. I give all of you mad props who can stay clean or use only bupe... and hopefully in my couple months on this shit I'll be able to feel I don't need junk at all. I'm just trying to take this shit a day at a time and not come out guns blazing like I've done about being sober outta rehab before. Not only do I let myself down when I relapse, I let down all those around me. I need some fucking self control, you know whatI'm sayin'?


I propose a toast, to my self control, you'll find crawling, helpless on the floor.

 

[sixpartseven]

^ I never said you were trying to. I assumed because, exactly as you said, you didnt say. Is it not fair to assume that if someone is on bupe they are trying to get clean? Thats the most common reason to be on bupe, so I assumed.

As for your tolerence, bupe isnt going to help you lower your tolerence unless you taper off it and stay clean for a while afterwards. Im doing exactly what you want to do: use heroin occasionally. I take suboxone everyday that I dont do dope. Ive been on the same dose of bupe since june of 07 and it still takes at least the same amount of heroin to get me high, sometimes more, as it did in june when I got off daily usage. Thats why its called maintenence. Its maintaining your habit. If you want to lower your tolerence and decrease your habit, maintencen is not for you. You want a detox and then an extended period of sobriety afterwards/

So yeah, if you want to do what you describe, youre gonna have to be clean for a while, which means I sort of assumed right.

 

[brianxymox]

^ I never said you were trying to. I assumed because, exactly as you said, you didnt say. Is it not fair to assume that if someone is on bupe they are trying to get clean? Thats the most common reason to be on bupe, so I assumed.

As for your tolerence, bupe isnt going to help you lower your tolerence unless you taper off it and stay clean for a while afterwards. Im doing exactly what you want to do: use heroin occasionally. I take suboxone everyday that I dont do dope. Ive been on the same dose of bupe since june of 07 and it still takes at least the same amount of heroin to get me high, sometimes more, as it did in june when I got off daily usage. Thats why its called maintenence. Its maintaining your habit. If you want to lower your tolerence and decrease your habit, maintencen is not for you. You want a detox and then an extended period of sobriety afterwards/

So yeah, if you want to do what you describe, youre gonna have to be clean for a while, which means I sort of assumed right.

My main question originally was if people have had as much trouble staying clean on bupe as I have (and do they have these symptoms generally as well), or if anyone with extra knowledge can give me some insight into that which I have not endured. You did this, and did so to the best of your experience, which is helpful. When I question or reply to another response to this thread and am told that it shouldn't matter, matter of factly, it just seems trite. However, I'm very curious as to how often you are able to use H recreationally, and at what extent of use during the week/month dictates recreational to abusive for yourself? I've been hoping I could use sub for stabilization in the week, and chip two days out of that week with noticeable tolerance difference (as I stated before). Per say, I use 4 mgs a day of sub 5 days a week, and resume my gram and a half tolerance only two days of that week (on the weekends). Is it wrong of me to assume I'll enjoy the H much more this way, and feel it moreso then if I just used that amount all throughout the week? Do other people find it takes complete sobriety to drop tolerance? Maybe my tolerance won't be lowered exponentially, but have you found it possible/or worthwhile to use in that amount of time spaced? Or do you think I should indeed taper off sub completely and just go with H on the weekends, and nothing during the week? If I use for more then a day, I end up with withdrawals regardless (I used to pick up a habit after a week and w/d for a day, now it's like I use a day and w/d a week), I'm under the guise that I can use sub as a buffer and reap the benefits of junk on the weekends (saving my wallet and my veins). If it isn't so, I'll have to take a different approach, and which one to take (and which ones have worked for others) is of great interest to me.

 

[sixpartseven]

^ I use heroin, at the most, 4 times a month. Most of the time less than that. The only time its turned abusive was this weekend that just passed, but thats because tax returns came back and I got out of control with all the extra money. You will be able to do it too, but if one of your goals is to get your tolerence down first (which I think you said it was, I may be mistaken) then its going to be a little bit different for you. The good (and bad) part is my tolerence has never changed. Since june 7 2007 to today, my tolerence is pretty much exactly the same, even though I do heroin sometimes still. So you dont have to worry about using heroin occasionally affecting your tolerence unless you go overboard and start using it multiple days in a row.

QUICK NOTE: Dont assume the same for yourself when using heroin again. Always start low. Different circumstances in our situations could mean your tolerence did get lower, and resuming your normal usage would be bad. Always start low, no matter what.

No, it is not naive to think youll enjoy it more. It makes it 1000x better. You can appreciate the high and not have to worry about getting your next fix, because you have suboxone.

My advice, if you want to chip, stick with suboxone maintenence. Youre still going to have to spend a good amount of money on dope, but having the suboxone on hand will be your sort of "security blanket" and let you not have to worry about slipping back into addiction. Just be sure to limit your usage of H. Like no more than 4 or 5 times a month. You could get away with a little bit more, but I wouldnt push it at first.

So yes, suboxone during the week and dope on weekends does work.

Also: When I said it didnt matter, that was because I was under the assumption you wanted to get completely clean. If thats not what you want, then sure it does matter if you can get high off the medication. I apologize, it was kind of rude the way I said it.

 

[brianxymox]

^ I use heroin, at the most, 4 times a month. Most of the time less than that. The only time its turned abusive was this weekend that just passed, but thats because tax returns came back and I got out of control with all the extra money. You will be able to do it too, but if one of your goals is to get your tolerence down first (which I think you said it was, I may be mistaken) then its going to be a little bit different for you. The good (and bad) part is my tolerence has never changed. Since june 7 2007 to today, my tolerence is pretty much exactly the same, even though I do heroin sometimes still. So you dont have to worry about using heroin occasionally affecting your tolerence unless you go overboard and start using it multiple days in a row.

QUICK NOTE: Dont assume the same for yourself when using heroin again. Always start low. Different circumstances in our situations could mean your tolerence did get lower, and resuming your normal usage would be bad. Always start low, no matter what.

No, it is not naive to think youll enjoy it more. It makes it 1000x better. You can appreciate the high and not have to worry about getting your next fix, because you have suboxone.

My advice, if you want to chip, stick with suboxone maintenence. Youre still going to have to spend a good amount of money on dope, but having the suboxone on hand will be your sort of "security blanket" and let you not have to worry about slipping back into addiction. Just be sure to limit your usage of H. Like no more than 4 or 5 times a month. You could get away with a little bit more, but I wouldnt push it at first.

So yes, suboxone during the week and dope on weekends does work.

Also: When I said it didnt matter, that was because I was under the assumption you wanted to get completely clean. If thats not what you want, then sure it does matter if you can get high off the medication. I apologize, it was kind of rude the way I said it.

Wow, that's good to hear about your experience with weekend usage. As sad as it may sound, it's like a reward system in my head having something to look forward to on the weekend, hahaha. I'll definitely start low, lord knows I've heard the horror stories of junkies getting out of hab and going back to their normal dosage a month later and falling out for good. I've got quite a chunk of change coming back with my taxes as well, hopefully I can write myself a note for the day I recieve it, making a point of why I'm trying to chip in the first place, hahaha. Whether I heed it or not has a lot to do with my shitty will-power and how many excuses I can come up with to push the schedule to the wayside. For every one reason I can come up with to jump back on the black train, I can some up with 10 not to. It's all about not acting on impulse, and remembering why I'm trying to taper in the first place. I'm always amazed at my own ability to sabotage myself. It's fucking uncanny, and disgusting to some degree.

 

[bow-viper1]

You should ask your doctor about Lexapro (if he didn't already bring it up). My Suboxone doctor suggested it to me and it has really helped me a lot. I've been on it for about 5 weeks now and I feel pretty damn good.

I've suffered from anxiety and depression my entire life. It was amplified by the constant struggle to score heroin, withdrawals, spending my life savings, missing work and school, etc..

I'm finally getting my life back on track, and I owe that to Suboxone and Lexapro. Disclaimer: My depression and anxiety worsened the first few days I was on Lexapro, but the benefits I see now are well worth it.

 

[ccm]

Man, I'm not saying what you're saying isn't valid... but I did methadone after h for quite awhile and always got high by just increasing my daily (stay well) dosage by 40 extra mg's. Not only that, and I know this is a harm reduction site (but when I mixed the methadone with benzos or alcohol, that combination is something in the euphoria department that just clicks with my chemistry, so much so that methadone ranks very highly on my list of favorite opiods). I have nothing to gain by making false claims about this, I don't see my opiate habit as glamorous at all, but I can say I was definitely high by just kicking it up an extra wafer.

Brian, as I said in my original post, if you are feeling the methadone you are doing other drugs. You have indicated that you are using benzos with the 'done. I absolutely believe that you are feeling the 'done. :D And a 40 mg. bump at a time is pretty large. How long have you been using 'done? I started to feel nada after about nine months on the stuff. I even attempted to go up to feel something (the most the clinic will take you up at a time is 10 mgs.) but I just got nothing but maybe feeling a little energetic.

Sure wish I could get off this ride.

Oh, and you can definitely feel 'done after doing H.

 

[therightcoast]

i feel what your goin through i'm on suboxone too and its hard adjusting back to the real world when before all you did was get high day and night, for a lil while after i got on subs i was just anxiety stricken and shit cause i'd just go home and sit there, when i'd normally be doing drugs, and just feel bored out of my mind. Like everyone said just try to throw yourself back into the real world and get on some sports teams or get some new hobbies

 

[therightcoast]

i just read the op's post like 5 above and i would really recomend not doing opiates again, an addict is always an addict even without the drugs and once those come back things will end up being the same. join aa , itll really help

 

[center]

Join NA,AA, goto rehab, detox, get help OP. I'd rather see you alive and clean than dead in the ground doggy. Be easy, be safe man. Chill out.

 

[brianxymox]

Brian, as I said in my original post, if you are feeling the methadone you are doing other drugs. You have indicated that you are using benzos with the 'done. I absolutely believe that you are feeling the 'done. :D And a 40 mg. bump at a time is pretty large. How long have you been using 'done? I started to feel nada after about nine months on the stuff. I even attempted to go up to feel something (the most the clinic will take you up at a time is 10 mgs.) but I just got nothing but maybe feeling a little energetic.

Sure wish I could get off this ride.

Oh, and you can definitely feel 'done after doing H.

I hear ya, it is a bit of rise in dosage. That was the whole problem in all reality, though. I wasn't going to a clinic, I was buying them from a dude who prescribed to take 160 mgs a day for pain management, who only took 20. When I self-medicate I remove all doubt of actually being in control, and it's one more thing to feel shitty about, but as I've said before, I have nobody to blame except for myself over that. At the time I had been using methadone for a little over a year and a half. I actually kicked H cold turkey, and about 3 months later started my 'done dose (and year and a half addiction) at 40 mgs.. Over the course of that year and a half you can see how eventually I stopped getting high from it, and ended up upping the dosage over and over and over again. My problem was wanting to get high everyday back then, being not sick during the work-week and high on certain days here and there wasn't enough... thus my tolerance skyrocketed and my wallet/body took the hardest shots. It was fucking retarded, I was fucking retarded... but I never found a ceiling dose to me 'done habit, even without other drugs to kick it up a few notches. There were a few times where I took 40mgs. over my normal dose and got myself into some scary situations (what with being completely unresponsive etc. after a few hours) that should have pointed to me not having to up that much from my regular dose. Of course at that point in my life, I was so miserable and captivated with catching my dragon that those close calls didn't much discourage me. It was when I realized being able to function was costing me damn near my whole paycheck at a job I hated in the first place that I realized how fucked the whole situation was in the first place. Do all clinics only let you go up 10mgs? I can see why they would do that to attempt from their clients getting high, because I'd imagine 10 wouldn't work for me... but damn. Hearing shit like that even more confirms I should have taken the clinic route.

 

[babygetoboy]

A weird thing happened, I scored a bunch of suboxone off the street and tried to quit, but never could and never made it more than 2 days.

Then I decided to do it the real way and go to a clinic and do it under doctors supervision, and for some reason it completely changed the way I was using suboxone and the way it affected me, and was able to stay clean.

 

[brianxymox]

Join NA,AA, goto rehab, detox, get help OP. I'd rather see you alive and clean than dead in the ground doggy. Be easy, be safe man. Chill out.

I've just been the detox/rehab bit twice already. Conventional rehab on the lines of 12 stepping isn't for me. I need something different, because those meetings make me want to use more than anything sometimes. It's so fuckinf depressing to go to those things and hear all the heartache drugs cause for people, and hear that even though they are 12 months to 10 years sober, it's fight they have to take one day at a time to avoid (future trippin'). Do you know what I mean? They all say it gets easier with time, but that it never turns into a cakewalk. I should learn how to just commit, but fucking a man... to think because I went down this path everyday from here on out will be one where I think and crave to get high seems like I'm damned to relapse again. I wish I could hit that temple up in thailand that P. Kroupa did... I forget the name, but I guess they shut it down recently. I wouldn't have the fundage to get out there anyway... it just seems like I should try something non-conventional for once, because the meetings aren't helping me do anything but either focus on all the bad drugs have caused and continue to even without them, or revert to whatever they call bringing up the good times you had on them. I forget the term.

 

[brianxymox]

A weird thing happened, I scored a bunch of suboxone off the street and tried to quit, but never could and never made it more than 2 days.

Then I decided to do it the real way and go to a clinic and do it under doctors supervision, and for some reason it completely changed the way I was using suboxone and the way it affected me, and was able to stay clean.

If I had the money to do this, I'd be all about it. I mean, I had the money by running the game and all the schemes we all know so well for getting H... but I can't imagine hustling to afford a clinic to get sober, hahaha.

 

[ccm]

Sobriety Sux

Yes, Brian, my understanding is the largest a US clinic will take you up is 10 mgs. at a time.

And about your above post (#36) the crappy thing about sobriety is you think things are going to be great when you are clean and they aren't. You are the same except you don't have your handy escape route anymore to deal with the alienation and existentialism you feel. Of course, I suffer from major depression, which is why I got hooked in the first place, just like many of us. So, there it is: sobriety ain't all that great. I have been clean since 2000 with small slips here and there, but I am living proof that you can get your life back without those meetings.:D

"It's funny how your new life didn't change things
You're still the same old girl you used to be"
--"Lyin' Eyes" - The Eagles

 

[absent minded]

yeah dude i hate suboxone too. it keeps the wd's away, but it makes me feel sick.

 

[johanneschimpo]

Well I love suboxone. I think its the bee's knees. Without it, I would still be smacked out of my mind, or possibly resorted to the liquid handcuffs they call methadone (which isn't much better than heroin IMO).

"Suboxone saved my life" is cliche, but to an extent, thats how I feel.