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Benzos I got question about benzodiazepine & opioid tolerance.

E

Echotango

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
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Where the Grass is Greener on the other side.
Not sure it matters which question I ask 1st so I’m on 0.25mg clonazepam & 5mg nitrazepam daily and have LOWERED my dose to that for nearly a year straight now. I’m also on 900mg GABAPentin 3x daily.


My 1st question is how high of a dose of benzodiazepines can I use alongside my 90mg methadone before risking a fatal overdose cuz I’d like to use a bit extra here or there for various medical PRN or during a bad shroom trip would be best example?

My 2nd question is how dangerous is it if I accidentally double dose my methadone cuz I thought I was gonna die other day when that happened but I literally felt NOTHING when I took a 2nd dose 6 hour after my first by accident… I’m guessing my brains opioid receptors are fried with ridiculous tolerance & receptors saturation & down-regulation???


I value everyone’s knowledge and input HIGHLY so thanks for any insight you can provide me regarding these 2 questions/issues?


I’m using a phone to type with which very frustrating as I’d lie to have more “in depth reply” but I don’t what type of benzo or when I’ll need it for or why but let’s say it’s for lowering my methadone dose which I plan to do slow as possible like 1mg a week max dose reduction…

To keep things simple & clarify im aware tolerance is a huge factor or I would NOT be worried So that said which my tolerance where it’s at now 0.25mg clonasepam in day 5mg nitrazepam at night do you think 1-3mg of clonazepam would be lethal alongside my NORMAL or even possibly lower dose if my methadone.


I’m assuming an equivalent dose according to dose charts that another benzodiazepines equally dosed of temazepam or midazolam?


I’m at point it doesn’t seem w really bother me anymore but i feel morally obligated to at least give myself a good chance at surviving if that make sense to you lol?
 
@negrogesic

We've been talking in PMs and I have nowhere near the experience with benzos and opioids to give sound advice. I pointed them here because the OD crew generally is the most solid spot for practical advice.

Do you have any pointers on this issue or know somebody who would?
 
First I want to say that this is my experience and not the final word of a medical expert.

If you decide to take more take only the dose that would not sedate you or put you to sleep if you were using only benzodiazepines. As benzodiazepines are notorious for suppressing breathing if taken with opioids please be careful. If you have history of taking large doses of benzodiazepines then you are somewhat protected from permatolerance that you acquired in the past. But as this is a really very dangerous combination I would not go above 1mg of clonazepam. You have reduced your tolerance at the moment and I would not throw the dice as methadone is notorious for bad interactions with benzodiazepines. Taking less benzodiazepines, 1mg instead of 3, would outweigh in the safer direction, taking 60 and not 80mg of methadone. Other thing to watch out is duration of action of benzodiazepine you plan to take. Clonazepam does not have very sedating and hypnotic effect on me but it lasts longer than main effects of diazepam. This can be tricky cause if you take a bigger dose alongside your 80mg of methadone and fall asleep in 2-3 hours after dosing you will definitely be in an OD risk cause clonazepam can peak at 3-4 hours post oral ingestion and exert effects for many more hours while you are sleeping. Taking shorter acting benzo would be a better option. But then again midazolam can put you under pretty quickly and it can put you in that forgetful mode where you think you did not take any and keep taking them every 30 minutes and OD like that. It is true that in general all benzos are interchangeable but some carry more risk of amnesia while others have very long duration of action. Also I believe that clonazepam is special cause it lowers serotonin levels more than other benzos. For this application, if I could choose, bromazepam would be great benzo. Barely sedating if not taken in huge quantities and great for anxiety that shroom trip can induce. And then there are your personal differences. How your body reacts to a particular benzo... I guess that I am trying to write that this is known as an dangerous combination for a reason. You can react to it just as intended but if things go south it can be an ugly situation with a dire consequences. Proceed with caution and it would be great if you had a sitter with naloxon in their hands. I dont want to freak you out but the best advice would be to take benzodiazepinds as prescribed. But if you plan to take a larger amount of benzos on top of your methadone please have a sitter equipped with naloxone.

Only you know you but I dont think quadrupling your clonazepam dose (or taking even more) is a good HR. Sitter and few naloxone kits are. Please take this serious, put some safety nets or dich the idea.

Hope someone more knowledgeable can give you a better answer.

Take care!

Edited due to some additional info added.
 
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I’ve been on Methadone 80mg for about 15 years so I am “stable” and tolerant to this dose

I also take…
Diazepam 10mg tablets 2-6 max (30-40mg average)
Pregabalin 300mg
Baclofen 10mg tablets (20-30mg max)
Methylphenidate (Ritalin) 50-60mg IR / dopaminergic stimulant to enhance analgesic properties of Methadone while reducing sedation caused by opioids / benzodiazepine / CNS depressants

In addition, after I’m peaking I have several Tanqueray Jin & CDN Dry cocktails (2.oz ethanol each) after blasting a line a decent quantity Cocaine before heading out to patio for a cigarette

SO….everyone has different tolerance to many different substances / cocktails. Know your limits. Go slow, make small increases IF you must and find a “sweet spot” that suites your own tolerance.

Opioid & Benzodiazepam co-ingestion/abuse is a nightmare for the health care system, EMT’s and devastated family members left behind. Use with someone there. Take early in day (NOT a few hours before bed, cause your breathing could become so shallow & depressed you could never wake up again).

Just chill if you’re worried…..don’t mess around with pushing the envelope.

Etizolam 1mg is a short acting benzo analog with fast clearance, short half life, and a2/a3 subunit selectivity acting mainly as a relatively non sedating potent and rapid acting anxiolytic

Diazepam (Valium) and similar long-acting benzodiazepine have a greater risk of accumulation and more prominent CNS depressants properties, in addition to great muscle relaxant & anxiolytic properties

Dexedrine/Vyvanse/Adderall/Ritalin and even Cocaine are great with Methadone to enhance pain relief and reduce sedation….even a light to moderate benzodiazepine to reduce any anxiety
 
1st I’d like to ask if taking a dose of a antipsychotic of some type instead of a benzo for a bad shroom trip would be more suitable and or more effective as I’ve read from anecdotes?

Okay I think I need to provide additional information such as that I definitely used to abuse benzodiazepines alongside my methadone a ton so this is NOT uncharted territory for me… I would also definitely assume I got some type of “perma-tolerance from ridiculously high doses ive used over the years. I think I should mention. I’ve been told I’m slightly more resilient to the amnesia and other negative side effects of benzos when compared to the next person.

I’m also wondering about mentioning not sleeping as a when I’ve asked Doctors about it they don’t think it increases OD risk?
 
Do you think taking an NDMA Antagonist at the same time as a dose of a benzo would help prevent tolerance and or potential rebound anxiety/insmomina or prevet rekindling effect? I mean for some reason it's not talked bout for benzos much only for opioid use but, does it work for benzos too cuz that is what I read?

I don't know what a strong NMDA antgonist is safe to take alongside a drug like 6-APB for example that's safe except maybe Memantine but I got no idea to be honest?


That being said from what I understand the equivalent dose charts for benzos is not accurate let alone for O.D. risk prevention purposes... so what dose will be equal to 1mg of clonazepam of either Midazolam,Temazepam,etizolam,diazepam or I guess I might take Norflurazepam if I feel like I need a longer acting benzo? I know I'm going to need a benzo for when I take some 6-APB to help anxiety which I was considering using 5-MAPB since it'd be less likely to cause problems with anxiety from what I've read but fuck it this is how it's gonna go.


Obviously Midazolam is a bit unique with a higher absorption for insufflation but I doubt I'll use that ROA unless I can somehow make the 15mg tablets I got into a nasal spray solution? Does anyone here know if I can do that?


Oh and would it be fine to take 1 baclofen I came across a thread of someone mentoining MDMA and GABA-B being involved so the mixture of Baclofen and MDMA could have potential and since 6-APB has similar effects I'm consdering it assuming its safe to do so?


Lastly I'm going to be using nitrous oxide chargers will that be another potential layer of risk added to my life for that day?
 
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For example Nitrous Oxide is a strong NMDA Antagonist and I know it'd be what I'm looking for but it's the extremely short duration of effect that makes me not think it would work at all for my intended purpose? I'm also taking a few small insignificant NMDMA antagonist medication/supplements that I'm unsure if when taken together do much but from anecdotes of what I've read suggest they do at least for slowing down tolerance development slightly.
 
Simple don't go over 1mg Klonopin which would be 4 tablets of .25mg's do not exceed 1mg i'd try to STOCK UP for times when in desperate needs and or get cut off. You don't want a hardcore Benzo Habit TRUST. 25MG if that can knock you out you're good. Plus, 90mg Methadone mixed w. The Klonopin alone should do the job. Temazepam is wonderful for insomnia/Sleep look into that.
 
Pill Clinton said:
Simple don't go over 1mg Klonopin which would be 4 tablets of .25mg's do not exceed 1mg i'd try to STOCK UP for times when in desperate needs and or get cut off. You don't want a hardcore Benzo Habit TRUST. 25MG if that can knock you out you're good. Plus, 90mg Methadone mixed w. The Klonopin alone should do the job. Temazepam is wonderful for insomnia/Sleep look into that.
Click to expand...

That's the problem I know for example 40mg of Temazepam a roughly equivalent dose to 1mg of clonazepam won't do anything for me except potentially ruin my recovery process. A year and half ago roughly give or take a few months I was forced my Doctors no less to do what anyone with half a brain here would consider dangerously reckless rapid taper to say that is an understatement.

But I was using an equivalent of 5mg clonazepam roughly of a 3 different benzos for years. I've been prescribed benzos for over a decade now and my official benzo prescription was 1mg of clonazepam in the day and 10mg nitrazepam at night for sleep.


Poiint is I weaned myself off rapidly and I'm not even 2 years since I've had my dose "stabilized" lol and I'm worried bout how badly it'll fuck my porgress in recovery if I require to use a single dose for a single day. I know even 1 day will fuck me up bad but how long until it won't... I've also read it's different than opioids where even one day of use years after recovery has potential for withdrawal for example.
 
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Echotango said:
Poiint is I weaned myself off rapidly and I'm not even 2 years since I've had my dose "stabilized" lol and I'm worried bout how badly it'll fuck my porgress in recovery if I require to use a single dose for a single day. I know even 1 day will fuck me up bad but how long until it won't... I've also read it's different than opioids where even one day of use years after recovery has potential for withdrawal for example.
Click to expand...
I'm so sure about one use of has potential w/d. You know what you need to do is go to the "Ashton Manuel" about Benzo's it's the best when it comes to Benzo's. Trust & Be safe.
 
Dextro .45 said:
I’ve been on Methadone 80mg for about 15 years so I am “stable” and tolerant to this dose

I also take…
Diazepam 10mg tablets 2-6 max (30-40mg average)
Pregabalin 300mg
Baclofen 10mg tablets (20-30mg max)
Methylphenidate (Ritalin) 50-60mg IR / dopaminergic stimulant to enhance analgesic properties of Methadone while reducing sedation caused by opioids / benzodiazepine / CNS depressants

In addition, after I’m peaking I have several Tanqueray Jin & CDN Dry cocktails (2.oz ethanol each) after blasting a line a decent quantity Cocaine before heading out to patio for a cigarette

SO….everyone has different tolerance to many different substances / cocktails. Know your limits. Go slow, make small increases IF you must and find a “sweet spot” that suites your own tolerance.

Opioid & Benzodiazepam co-ingestion/abuse is a nightmare for the health care system, EMT’s and devastated family members left behind. Use with someone there. Take early in day (NOT a few hours before bed, cause your breathing could become so shallow & depressed you could never wake up again).

Just chill if you’re worried…..don’t mess around with pushing the envelope.

Etizolam 1mg is a short acting benzo analog with fast clearance, short half life, and a2/a3 subunit selectivity acting mainly as a relatively non sedating potent and rapid acting anxiolytic

Diazepam (Valium) and similar long-acting benzodiazepine have a greater risk of accumulation and more prominent CNS depressants properties, in addition to great muscle relaxant & anxiolytic properties

Dexedrine/Vyvanse/Adderall/Ritalin and even Cocaine are great with Methadone to enhance pain relief and reduce sedation….even a light to moderate benzodiazepine to reduce any anxiety
Click to expand...
 
Lol also it just occured to me that I might want to take a RC benzo specifically norflurazepam as I enjoy the muscle relaxing properties of it. Best information I've found suggests it might be 10mg is equal 10 mg of diazepam for an acute dose but if you take it daily it'll probably end up being twice as strong roughly.
 
Who wants to REDUCE sedation!? 🤔🤔Not me, ever. I would nod every day if it were possible .
 
whatever the dose is of a benzo opioid combo where you find yourself falling asleep sitting upright or in weird places; it’s best to back off.

Also methadone comes on so slowly that you can be fine,
Go to sleep; and while sleeping you’ll become more opiated and die. Don’t go to sleep until you’re a solid 4 hour past your methadone dose if you’re dosing high on these drugs is my advice.

Yes they can be dangerous to mix if you are chasing a hard nod.
 
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