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Kratom I don't think I should quit kratom

Yes it is, it's a heavily modified tryptamine. Which is really interesting to me.

4meSM said:
This isn't entirely true, as far as I know. Liver damage only seems to happen to some people, and some of the worst cases (liver failure) have been reported days or weeks after they started taking kratom.

I've been a daily kratom user since 2016 and I've gotten my liver enzymes checked numerous times and they have always been within normal levels. I haven't experienced jaudice or darkening or the skin either.

This is on 15-25g a day. Much higher doses might pose a higher risk of side effects. But at the same time, there doesn't seem to be many reports of severe liver damage considering there are millions of kratom users (at least I haven't seen many cases).
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Agreed, it does definitely cause liver issues for some, but for most it does not seem to. I have been addicted to 50+ grams a day for about 9 total years of my life (over 6 in a row, every single day for that whole period of time) and have never had any liver abnormalities at all. It's never felt the least bit unhealthy to me, besides the addiction, which is unhealthy regardless. In fact I have been given a clean bill of health and even been told I am very healthy.

That said, proceed with caution, and know that it's possible that kratom could be bad for your liver.

SnafuInTheVoid said:
I've heard others like this, and it even makes more sense than what happens to me.

I will start craving more within 8 hours but the runny nose doesn't start until well past 20 hours.

I wonder what causes the delay/difference?

Interesting
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It is interesting for sure. I wish I was more like you. The way it is for me makes it fucking suck to be addicted to kratom. And it's very easy to become addicted. It's why every time I try to do it, it isn't long before I'm dosing it around the clock, because I start to feel like shit quicker and quicker. I also start getting withdrawals if I do it 2 days in a row even once, even if I haven't done it for a while. I can maintain every other day if I haven't done it for a while, physically at least, but before long I cheat and from there I start to feel crappy and my rate of usage increases.
 
OP I too think you should not quit. lol You have a hard time so another method is needed to get off. One thing I will say about kratom is if you have will power tapering can be painless. I too can not tell the difference between 25 gr or 15 gr. Getting down to a few grams and jumping is easier and with some gabapentinoids around it can be even easier. I jumped from a 35 gr a day and it was annoyng but ok. And yes, after a few days all that is left is the lethargy for me. I never get PAWS, I am just happy when I take the bull by the horns. PAWS was not around when I was younger so it did not get into my head and I always felt great a month after stoppoing an opiated. But now PAWS is in everyone's head. A month after stopping an opiate I am like yeah mother fucker!! Ha! and feel good.

Again with will power tapering, spacing doses is a lot easier. I just had some now 19 hours after my last dose and was tired lethargic. But I do remember one time taking it every 4-6 hours and yeah, that is much harder to control. Spacing doses and tapering is the way to go and it can be easy. I never could do that with opiates. And with opiates I do get a dope sickness that is beyond anything kratom can give. In my head kratom is like a jealous little sister pounding her chest saying I am a bad ass but never really peaking to anything like dope sickness for me.
 
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I can advise everyone in this thread that wants to taper or CT kratom, to look into agmatine sulphate. It is a (fitness) supplement that greatly lessens or even negates the withdrawal from kratom. It really works for me, I was at 60-70g per day (yeah, I know) and landed in the hospital for something unrelated. That experience of going CT in the hospital from such a daily amount really hit me hard and I knew I had to get my usage in check. I tapered down quite rapidly to 30g using agmatine and am continuing on to lower it more and start skipping days

For me the withdrawals start in the morning when I wake up, so I take about 1,5g of agmatine -make sure you have the pure stuff. Pure agmatine is very bitter and chemically tasting but a lot of it isn't really pure- and about 30-60 minutes later at least 75% of my withdrawals are gone, sometimes 100%. It also potentiates kratom so you feel it more while you're taking less. It's a godsend for me but reviews are mixed so there might be some difference between people that explains the difference in experience. It's worth a try without a doubt though. Be mindful of possible interactions with other substances as it is said to potentiate quite a few drugs. I don't take any other opioids or opiates so I wouldn't know which ones, never combined it with anything else than kratom actually

See here for some general info
 
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GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
I've literally taken this stuff for 4 years every single day now. I'm at about 8-15 grams per day now, and it's weird how my tolerance for this stuff is so low when I could easily handle doses of opioids like 120 milligrams of stone cold oxy.

It's just the withdrawal is so awful for kratom at this point. Not many people believe me and I don't blame them for wondering why it would be so bad.. the restless legs were constant. I mean constant--and every single second of trying to sleep was just twirling around in my bed without getting an hour of sleep. Perpetual sweating and so fatigued. I just ran to the local smoke shop to buy more instantly and get some damn sleep, lol. I don't know how I would ever get off this substance if it were made illegal. I feel like I would flock to something much worse to make the sickness go away. I don't understand how I could repeatedly go through opioid withdrawals with stronger substance and higher doses and be fine. This stuff is different. I don't think I can kick kratom.
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I wonder if perhaps it's like poppy products. These plant matter opioids often seem to have disproportionately bad withdrawal for the opioid effects.

Probably because they contain multiple active alkaloids that exhibit incomplete cross tolerance with each other. So it's essentially withdrawing off multiple slightly different opioids at the same time.
 
BlueBull said:
I can advise everyone in this thread that wants to taper or CT kratom, to look into agmatine sulphate. It is a (fitness) supplement that greatly lessens or even negates the withdrawal from kratom. It really works for me, I was at 60-70g per day (yeah, I know) and landed in the hospital for something unrelated. That experience of going CT in the hospital from such a daily amount really hit me hard and I knew I had to get my usage in check. I tapered down quite rapidly to 30g using agmatine and am continuing on to lower it more and start skipping days

For me the withdrawals start in the morning when I wake up, so I take about 1,5g of agmatine -make sure you have the pure stuff. Pure agmatine is very bitter and chemically tasting but a lot of it isn't really pure- and about 30-60 minutes later at least 75% of my withdrawals are gone, sometimes 100%. It also potentiates kratom so you feel it more while you're taking less. It's a godsend for me but reviews are mixed so there might be some difference between people that explains the difference in experience. It's worth a try without a doubt though. Be mindful of possible interactions with other substances as it is said to potentiate quite a few drugs. I don't take any other opioids or opiates so I wouldn't know which ones, never combined it with anything else than kratom actually

See here for some general info
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Yeah this is good information, I recently discovered that agmatine really does help. Getting off kratom is easier with it. Black seed oil also helps. And gabapentin basically negates withdrawal entirely, but you do need to make sure not to take it for too long as it is itself addictive.
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah this is good information, I recently discovered that agmatine really does help. Getting off kratom is easier with it. Black seed oil also helps. And gabapentin basically negates withdrawal entirely, but you do need to make sure not to take it for too long as it is itself addictive.
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Riiiight, @negrogesic already advised me to get some black seed oil capsules but I forgot, of course. I'm going to order some right away before I forget again =D thanks for the reminder. Curious to see what the effect will be on the withdrawal, if I'm lucky combined with the agmatine it will be completely gone
 
I hope so!

I'm quitting kratom currently, I used agmatine to taper a bit to only dosing twice a day for a couple of days, and today I took a bit of suboxone. I have just enough to take it 3 times. I'm dosing every 3 days to avoid switching dependencies. Tomorrow nothing (the duration is such that I get 2 days of relief), and then loperamide the next day, then another dose. Etc. I've done it this way before. But a friend sent me about a pound of kratom, along with the bupe strip, which I didn't expect. So gonna give it to a friend who uses it so I don't have any to tempt me.
 
Removed.

Quit doing this its not even funny (they don't pay me enough for this shit 😤)

- negro
 
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shit man, im at like 100g per day in 12g doses like every 4hrs, been like this for about 2 years now... and yes, it is unbearable.. I've been an opiate addict for 20 years, faced a bundle a day heroin habit wd or similar countless times... but kratom... fucking beast, i think id need to be hospitalized around hour 36 if i could no longer get it
 
They wouldn't believe me in the hospital until I was nearly in tears until they gave me Ativan which worked like magic. Then they tried to take me off it again till I nipped that.
Kratom withdrawl is real. I've not been through any hard drug withdrawals, but it was easily in the top 5 most painful experiences I've had to deal with. Mostly because it is just so chronic, I could absolutely could not sit or lie still and felt I needed to break out of my skin.
 
xivixive said:
what is this agmatine, and how much would I take to help kick my habit of 12g every 4hrs?
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It's a (mainly fitness) supplement. I use it right when I wake up and about 30-60 minutes later the withdrawal is greatly lessened. This helps me lower my dose gradually (tapering) without too much hassle. Have a read of the link in my earlier post, there is a lot of information in there. Do note that I think that biological differences between people make it so that it doesn't work for everyone, reviews are mixed. You could also look into black seed oil for the same purpose, though I haven't used that one personally a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum advise it, which would not be the case if it was nonsense. I have ordered some black seed oil myself so will be able to tell you more about its effect in a few days

I use 1,5g at a time. I believe doses as high as 2.4g have been found safe to take so if you need more you could go up to that level. Higher doses could be safe too but haven't been researched so tread carefully with that. Also be aware that it apparently potentiates number of drugs other than kratom so if you take others, be mindful of that. It also potentiates kratom somewhat which additionally helps in lowering your dose. It's not going to take away your withdrawal completely but in my case it lessens it greatly, from something that's constantly on the foreground to a nagging feeling I can ignore in the background. Also make sure you have pure agmatine, if it's not bitter and chemically tasting, it's not pure

By the way, I was at about 70g at the highest so not that far removed from your dose. I'm now at 30g and lowering still. It's possible, hold on
 
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