i dont get post roll depression

[e92]

the day after i feel great.. like right now. music is still captivating, lights and colors are still intense, etc etc

 

[dezz]

Congratulations, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[JWills20]

Nor do i, moderation is the key I reckon.

 

[e92]

Nor do i, moderation is the key I reckon.

or all the molly i've taken was pure lol

 

[Folley]

or all the molly i've taken was pure lol

That would make little to no difference if you're abusing a potent neurotoxin. Who else wants to bet that in roughly 3 months the OP is going to come back complaining about all the damage they have done to their 5-HT system?



You know, I was once in your spot. So I'm going to hook you up with some knowledge.

A large body of pre-clinical data indicates that 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, 'ecstasy') damages brain serotonin (5-HT) axons in animals, including non-human primates. Our clinical studies have sought to determine whether human MDMA users are also susceptible to MDMA-induced 5-HT injury, and, if so, if there are measurable functional consequences. These studies have utilised the two existing validated measures of 5-HT neurotoxicity in living humans, namely, measurement of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) 5-HIAA, the major metabolite of 5-HT and, more recently, positron emission tomography (PET) studies with a redioligand element of serotonin axon terminal. Both of these markers are decreased in MDMA users, as in experimental animals with known 5-HT injury.

MDMA users, when compared to control subjects who have never used MDMA (but who may have used other recreational drugs) also have alterations in behavioural functions thought to be modulated by 5-HT. These include the neuro-endocrine and behavioural responses to drugs that act at serotonin receptors, cognitive function, impulsivity, and sleep architecture. Taken together, these studies indicate that some MDMA users develop 5-HT neurotoxic injury, and that MDMA-induced 5-HT damage may lead to long-lasting behavioural changes.

Source: http://ecstasy.org/info/novartisabs.html



Unless somehow you're completely different from all other mammals, brain damage caused by MDMA can happen to you too. Right now it hopefully hasn't happened yet... but it will if you continue to abuse the drug. MDMA is supposed to be used only once every 3 months, or at a MAXIMUM, once a month.



Now you have a choice. Use ecstasy responsibly and never have "post roll depression", or continue to abuse it by taking too much too often, and you'll soon find yourself extremely acquainted with it.

 

[Chesh]

or all the molly i've taken was pure lol

if it's powder then that's unlikely.

and yeah mate enjoy it while it lasts. i still feel nice the day after and the week after i just might feel a tiny bit down at some points, easy to deal with.

minimum of 30 days between doing mdma or you'll eventually regret it. you might be able to do it every weekend for a month before it catches up with you, or maybe a year, but the odds are eventually it will effect you negatively if you abuse it like it has to so many others.

moderation motherfuckerrrrr

 

[No Consequence]

or all the molly i've taken was pure lol

Post roll depression is caused from the depletion of your serotonin, not from people taking less pure molly..

It is all about moderation. Everyone is different though. I know some people that have only rolled a few times, but everytime they are a bitch and depressed the next day. Most people I know don't ever get depression from it though, but they know to not overdue it and wait. Most people will probably get it to some degree after a long time of abusing and not waiting in between rolls though.
That's good that you don't get it, but with abuse, it will probably come.

 

[anonymous777]

or all the molly i've taken was pure lol

It's actually much more likely that the "molly" you're taking is not mdma at all

 

[FluoTox]

Folley provided useful information, thank you for that.


Here some additional information to prevent damage from MDMA use.


4 Essential Points for responsible Usage of MDMA:

1 . Balanced diet and regular exercise (Healthy Lifestyle)
2 . Taking anti-oxidants to counteract neurotoxicity
3 . Hold your dose Low to initiate Up-regulation
4 . Leave enough time between use ( 3months or longer)


Follow this rules and have a good Post-MDMA time

Antioxidants that deactivate MDMA-generated toxic oxygen species

MDMA is a catecholamine and by its nature (structure) a pro-oxidant. Even a low dose of 120mg MDMA will increase free radical production and oxidative stress. Our research has shown that even a low dose of MDMA produces a sharp rise in free radicals, as measured by a urinary MDA-TBARS test. Therefore, anyone that is considering using MDMA must bolster the body’s endogenous antioxidant shield and to increase circulating antioxidants. MDMA-induced neurotoxicity involves a wide range of free radicals; including superoxide, hydroxyl radicals and peroxynitrite. Therefore it is essential to supply brain penetrating antioxidants (and their cofactors) that neutralize each type of radical. (124-126)

The theory of MDMA neuroprotection is simple. Neurotoxicity is directly related to increased oxidative stress. Therefore if oxidative stress can be blocked, so can the neurotoxicity.

Up and down regulation of serotonin

MDMA causes post-synaptic serotonin 5-HT2 receptors in the brain to up-regulate or down-regulate according to the dose. Up and down-regulation are normal adaptive responses to increased transmission through the serotonin receptors, as a result of MDMA-stimulated serotonin release.

§ Small doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dose of <1mg/kg) cause up-regulation. This appears to stimulate the development of new serotonin neurons.

§ Higher doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dosage of 2 mg/kg) may cause down-regulation. The down-regulated receptors decrease both the binding of serotonin and the psychotropic effects of MDMA. Down-regulation protects receptors from damage by overstimulation and maintains homeostatic balance in the brain through feedback control of serotonin transmissions and receptor sensitivity in the neural network. (42-46) Down regulation, rather than neurotoxicity may account for the "loss of the magic" after repeated exposure to MDMA.

Source: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25637

 

[thelastclubkid]

i also do not get any post roll depression. nor have i ever and i have been rolling for a long time (and far more often than what is recommended..) not that i would condone using MDMA more because i understand that i am an exception to the norm..

i have lately been wondering why the same advice about not overdoing it that is now considered standard for MDMA use is not also given for drugs that are dopamine releasers (e.g. adderall)... in other words, adderall functions on the dopamine system in the same way that MDMA does on the serotonin system; it causes the uptake pathway to reverse and release stored dopamine... following the logic we should be seeing massive numbers of adderall users with similar downregulation and damage to their dopamine systems. and yet when they stop using adderall studies show that the vast majority of people have normal dopamine function within even a few weeks... i really wish we had some better studies done with MDMA to show what dosages/usage patterns really cause damage...

 

[OGKooosh]

wishful thinking, that is all.

 

[JWills20]

i also do not get any post roll depression. nor have i ever and i have been rolling for a long time (and far more often than what is recommended..) not that i would condone using MDMA more because i understand that i am an exception to the norm..

i have lately been wondering why the same advice about not overdoing it that is now considered standard for MDMA use is not also given for drugs that are dopamine releasers (e.g. adderall)... in other words, adderall functions on the dopamine system in the same way that MDMA does on the serotonin system; it causes the uptake pathway to reverse and release stored dopamine... following the logic we should be seeing massive numbers of adderall users with similar downregulation and damage to their dopamine systems. and yet when they stop using adderall studies show that the vast majority of people have normal dopamine function within even a few weeks... i really wish we had some better studies done with MDMA to show what dosages/usage patterns really cause damage...

I read that this is because the body is far more effective in recovering dopamine stores which is why you can use dopaminergic drugs more frequently with similar effects and recover quicker after abuse. I remember reading that dopamine can be recovered in a matter of hours whereas, serotonin is very inefficient at recovering; some sources suggest two weeks whereas others suggest 1 month and therefore moderation is the key to HR.

Anyone with better knowledge on this feel free to object what I said, i'm not 100% sure.

 

[Chesh]

Up and down regulation of serotonin

MDMA causes post-synaptic serotonin 5-HT2 receptors in the brain to up-regulate or down-regulate according to the dose. Up and down-regulation are normal adaptive responses to increased transmission through the serotonin receptors, as a result of MDMA-stimulated serotonin release.

§ Small doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dose of <1mg/kg) cause up-regulation. This appears to stimulate the development of new serotonin neurons.

§ Higher doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dosage of 2 mg/kg) may cause down-regulation. The down-regulated receptors decrease both the binding of serotonin and the psychotropic effects of MDMA. Down-regulation protects receptors from damage by overstimulation and maintains homeostatic balance in the brain through feedback control of serotonin transmissions and receptor sensitivity in the neural network. (42-46) Down regulation, rather than neurotoxicity may account for the "loss of the magic" after repeated exposure to MDMA.

shit that's pretty interesting

 

[gooballs]

i also do not get any post roll depression. nor have i ever and i have been rolling for a long time (and far more often than what is recommended..) not that i would condone using MDMA more because i understand that i am an exception to the norm..

i have lately been wondering why the same advice about not overdoing it that is now considered standard for MDMA use is not also given for drugs that are dopamine releasers (e.g. adderall)... in other words, adderall functions on the dopamine system in the same way that MDMA does on the serotonin system; it causes the uptake pathway to reverse and release stored dopamine... following the logic we should be seeing massive numbers of adderall users with similar downregulation and damage to their dopamine systems. and yet when they stop using adderall studies show that the vast majority of people have normal dopamine function within even a few weeks... i really wish we had some better studies done with MDMA to show what dosages/usage patterns really cause damage...

because the amount of damage one dose of MDMA does to your SERT system is barely comparable to the damage done to dopamine receptors by a dose of adderall.

 

[JWills20]

Up and down regulation of serotonin

MDMA causes post-synaptic serotonin 5-HT2 receptors in the brain to up-regulate or down-regulate according to the dose. Up and down-regulation are normal adaptive responses to increased transmission through the serotonin receptors, as a result of MDMA-stimulated serotonin release.

§ Small doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dose of <1mg/kg) cause up-regulation. This appears to stimulate the development of new serotonin neurons.

§ Higher doses of MDMA (equivalent to a human dosage of 2 mg/kg) may cause down-regulation. The down-regulated receptors decrease both the binding of serotonin and the psychotropic effects of MDMA. Down-regulation protects receptors from damage by overstimulation and maintains homeostatic balance in the brain through feedback control of serotonin transmissions and receptor sensitivity in the neural network. (42-46) Down regulation, rather than neurotoxicity may account for the "loss of the magic" after repeated exposure to MDMA.

Doesn't that suggest that in fact a dose of 1mg/kg would increase the brain's serotonin even post experience? Or would the dose still damage the reuptakers and negate any possible positive effects?

Also what about a dose nearer the range of 1.5mg/kg in between both?

Really interesting.

 

[thelastclubkid]

because the amount of damage one dose of MDMA does to your SERT system is barely comparable to the damage done to dopamine receptors by a dose of adderall.

do we know this for a fact? and at what doses?... again make no mistake: i am not arguing that MDMA does not cause damage.. i have seen enough to *know* this is the case.. nevertheless i often wonder if alot of the damage people do with MDMA is more a result of inappropriate dosage rather than overly frequent usage...

basically let me put it this way: i know MDMA causes problems if you do it too much because i see it in everyone around me... except for myself... and i know the wisdom is "well if you keep doing it it is going to eventually catch up with you"... the thing is i have been doing this 15 years now on and off and it hasnt happend to me... while i would love for the reason to be that i am just some sort of super rockstar or something i dont think thats the case... i think it may relate to other factors (with the obvious exception of serotonin depletion...)

one of the things we know with aderall specifically is that people who abuse the dosage (e.g. they take 2-3x the normal dose and also more often) and the resulting damage is not unlike what is seen with meth or crack abusers... yet at the normal dosage adderall seems to be relatively safe to take for extended periods (e.g. for years even).. my personal belief is that there is a dosage of MDMA that can be applied to humans on a relatively frequent basis (say 1 dose every week) that would not cause detectable change in the serotonin system... problem is that because of the way the MDMA safety studies are conducted they always use much higher dosages than humans would use even recreationally... the lowest dosage i could find was a study (bleckly) that tried a number of dosage levels with one being 2.4mg/Kg but give 3X in 6 hours!

what we really need are some studies where the subjects are given dosages in the 1mg/Kg area.. cause i have a feeling that there is alot of therapeutic potential to be had with more moderate dosages that can be done is a very safe manner... now on the other hand i dont know how many recreational users are going to be happy with a 1mg/Kg dose (something like 1 75mg pill for the whole night) but maybe that is the trade off: if you want to get *really* fucked up then you have to accept that its gotta be a once-a-month or less thing then...

 

[Chesh]

they use much higher mg/kg doses in rats or mice because they have a much higher metabolism i think.