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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

I am getting full shoulder replacement in 2.5 days. I cut my Kratom down from 5 grams a day to less than 2.

Psynaught

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 12, 2023
Messages
440
I've heard that Kratom abuse has caused problems with surgery (actually it was a Pub Med article) but the subject was taking 35 grams a day. I should be OK, yes? I have not touched any other opioids in a long time.

I was also thinking of taking a valium the night before since I have great trouble getting to sleep at a reasonable hour.
 
What sort of problems do you mean? I had hip replacement surgery a couple years ago, and I'm a daily kratom taker. The only issues I ran into were decreased efficacy for the pain meds they gave me afterward, but for the actual surgery itself there was no issue.
 
What sort of problems do you mean? I had hip replacement surgery a couple years ago, and I'm a daily kratom taker. The only issues I ran into were decreased efficacy for the pain meds they gave me afterward, but for the actual surgery itself there was no issue.
Guy was taking 35 grams of kratom a day. Created all sorts of problems. I am 2 days post op and no problems except pain. I tapered down to zero Kratom 2 days before surgery. I was down to 1 gram a day for nearly a week. Only problem now is docs should gave given me some Oxy, they only gave me Tylenol 3 and Vicodin. This was for full shoulder replacement. They all contain Tylenol which is liver toxic. They instructed my to begin rehab exercises 1 day after surgery. Very painful as is bathing and taking sling off. I woke up in serious pain also. I am 2 days post op and have only taken 1 of my 30 mg Oxy stash.
 
Woah, physical therapy 1 day after. That seems pretty intense, I guess they don't want it healing and u not being able to perfeorm regular movement. My mother broke hers and had to have a rod and some screws put in and was going to pt but wasn't doing any of the at home exercises they instructed her to now she can't even lift her arm past her shoulder lazy lady. I told her that would happen if she didn't do them and all she did was get mad at me and tell me I didn't know what I was talking about.
 
I called today in severe pain. Their response was that I was not following the pain protocol (I need to wake up after 4 hours of sleep...a bad idea for me since I have insomnia). I need as much sleep as I can get. Also these idiots don't understand that I took 3 grams of Tylenol yesterday so was limited today (both the Tylenol 3 and Hydrocodone containTylenol...Tylenol will pickle your liver). I refuse to argue over or beg for pain meds, so I just took one of my personal stash I have been saving for such an occasion. That knocked the pain out.

Actually, I was otherwise very pleased with my surgical team. They want me to do a review of their performance. I am going to give them 5 stars in many areas, but I am also going to explain how stupid their pain protocol is. They only needed to prescribe 8-10 Oxys, that is all that was needed. 99.9% of people are not opiod addicts. Too many doctors are driven by a moronic political agenda.
 
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Damn @Psynaught I feel pretty badly that I missed this whole experience. I have so much experience with surgery and pain and of course, my surgeon knowing that I had abused Opiates.

It´s really fucking stupid at this point. They overprescribe, they underprescribe... it is so far from rocket science. They can quite easily just prescribe legitimate amounts of pain medication. The fact that they are so immersed in these extremes makes the whole thing seem downright childish.

When I had my impacted wisdom teeth removed, they gave me 15 5/350 Oxycodone/APAP, so 3 per day for 5 days. That was just completely appropriate. I wanted more, I was still just a teenager. They took the pain away and if we are all being honest, I didn´t need Opioids after 5 days.

You watch the old documentaries like ¨The Oxycontin Express¨ with that dutch lady. They have ziplock bags full of OC 80´s and Xanax Bars and it is just nonsensical. Yes, we all know that zip-lock bag quantities of Oxycodone are excessive. Is is so difficult to just prescribe the right amount of drugs. I swear, doctors have no fucking morals left in their profession. They sold their souls for money and we are the ones that suffer.

They have no problem getting the country hooked. They have no problem withholding pain management for truly legitimate patients, letting them suffer lest the doctor´s reputation suffer (gasp).

Yea, it pisss me off. I have such little respect for the medical profession.
 
Damn @Psynaught I feel pretty badly that I missed this whole experience. I have so much experience with surgery and pain and of course, my surgeon knowing that I had abused Opiates.

It´s really fucking stupid at this point. They overprescribe, they underprescribe... it is so far from rocket science. They can quite easily just prescribe legitimate amounts of pain medication. The fact that they are so immersed in these extremes makes the whole thing seem downright childish.

When I had my impacted wisdom teeth removed, they gave me 15 5/350 Oxycodone/APAP, so 3 per day for 5 days. That was just completely appropriate. I wanted more, I was still just a teenager. They took the pain away and if we are all being honest, I didn´t need Opioids after 5 days.

You watch the old documentaries like ¨The Oxycontin Express¨ with that dutch lady. They have ziplock bags full of OC 80´s and Xanax Bars and it is just nonsensical. Yes, we all know that zip-lock bag quantities of Oxycodone are excessive. Is is so difficult to just prescribe the right amount of drugs. I swear, doctors have no fucking morals left in their profession. They sold their souls for money and we are the ones that suffer.

They have no problem getting the country hooked. They have no problem withholding pain management for truly legitimate patients, letting them suffer lest the doctor´s reputation suffer (gasp).

Yea, it pisss me off. I have such little respect for the medical profession.
You are 100% correct. They cut out my bones and but synthetic parts in. That sort of pain (some score it as high as 9) is EXACTLY what opioids were designed to deal with. The new high tech "multimodal pain management" is making me way more sick and constipated than the old school treatment I got for 0ther major surgeries. And I did not get addicted or have any problems. In fact I think I took less opioids for the old school procedures.

It is just stupid. I have a friend who is an anesthesiologist who brags about not using opioids. I want to tell him he is an idiot. 99.9% of the population are not addicts. And we have more addicts since doctors gave up control of pain meds.
 
We are by far, the largest consumers of licit and illicit Opioids globally, so I don´t think we can claim our approach has done anyone any good. We spend more time making retarded attempts at policing substance use and it does nothing but cause no harm. We have known this for decades now. If they wanted to change it, they could´ve started before Fentanyl made it impossible to fix.
 
We are by far, the largest consumers of licit and illicit Opioids globally, so I don´t think we can claim our approach has done anyone any good. We spend more time making retarded attempts at policing substance use and it does nothing but cause no harm. We have known this for decades now. If they wanted to change it, they could´ve started before Fentanyl made it impossible to fix.
Today is day 5 and finally I am starting to feel better. I followed their pain management program to a tee. 2.5 days after the surgery I called in extreme pain. I was also nauseous and constipated. They called my wife back and told her I was not following the protocol (I was). So I just suffered...I was not going to call again.

Today my wife received a text from the Nurse/Navigator asking me to call her back. I called her back. Again her response was I was not following the protocol.

These people are nuts.
 
Today is day 5 and finally I am starting to feel better. I followed their pain management program to a tee. 2.5 days after the surgery I called in extreme pain. I was also nauseous and constipated. They called my wife back and told her I was not following the protocol (I was). So I just suffered...I was not going to call again.

Today my wife received a text from the Nurse/Navigator asking me to call her back. I called her back. Again her response was I was not following the protocol.

These people are nuts.
What do they specifically say you are doing out of protocol? Calling them?
 
What do they specifically say you are doing out of protocol? Calling them?
I have no idea. I am fleeing better, now that it is day 5. The nurses were all great and the surgeon is highly regarded. When I go in for my follow up I will be polite and thankful, but I am also going to be very clear about the fact that no one listened when I complained.

I have hardly taken any opiods today. The irony is a still have a bunch of Vicodin and Tylenol 3 left over.
 
Dude, give yourself a big pat on the back @Psynaught :)

You really have done a great job with all of this. I can be sober, yes; can I be sober with drugs constantly within arms´ reach. Well, let´s just say I stay sober by keeping those things at least out of my reach. I don´t have phone numbers. I don´t associate with fellow miscreants despite them being my people. I sell pharmaceuticals now as a second job. I sell drugs of a different variety to individuals with addictions that I do not fully understand. I´m selling anti-aging, peptides, GLP-1´s, NAD+, Hangover cures and botox among other things. Those people are addicted to Youth, which I find to be infinitely more sad than my addiction to Heroin.

See, I can actually do Heroin. They cannot actually be younger. They often make themselves into freaks in the process. I deal with stuck-up bitches who rail endlessly about Fauci, the liberals and how they are so proud they never ¨got the shot¨. Meanwhile, I am selling them ¨medicines¨ that, despite our claims, nobody really has a fucking clue how or where they are made. We proudly say ¨not China¨, which in all likelihood is untrue. Everyone is too poor to pay the rent, yet these bitches are all on anti-aging protocols that run $800-$1200/month between medications, injections and doctor visits.

Anyway, I am disgusted with myself because of how good I am at playing these simpletons. I´m sorry Ma´ám, but my honest opinion is that you should get off your fat ass every once in a while and exercise. Nope, they would rather give mother nature and God a big middle finger and consume ¨totally safe and tested¨ drugs that allow them to forego the exercise.

I guess my roundabout point, I am totally disgusted by the state of ¨medicine¨ in this country and probably globally. I have always known it to be essentially corrupt. Like police, you maintain your hope that their are good ones out there working for the greater good. Pain is defined as human suffering. We all know that pain cannot be reasoned with, ignored or finessed. People who are not in pain will say it is easy. To have that attitude is to be completely arrogant of what it means to be a human.

It´s just a missed call right? No, it is the catalyst for several days of extreme pain as someone is unable to get their medication. When you display any kind of attitude, you are quickly shuffled into the ¨problem¨ pile. Your complaints of pain are actually just addictive behaviors coming to the surface. You show up with notes to back up your claims. Your knowledge only proves that you are preoccupied with these drugs.

These things quickly become personal. You assume your doctor is a classically-trained scientist. You assume the Hippocratic Oath has a sacred meaning to all doctors. You assume that money is not their motivation, but a bonus to the hard work that they do. You assume that doctors are above vanity, above pettiness and above subjective/personal opinions being a part of their craft.

What you find in America is a radically different picture. The medical profession has lost all dignity in the wake of the latest Opioid Epidemic. They had no problem working hand in hand with organized crime to ensure poor Americans became addicted to these powerful Opioids. ¨Time Release makes them abuse-proof!¨ Any idiot with the most basic knowledge of pharmacy would assume that this is utterly ridiculous. Because two doses are administered at one time, the highly-addictive Opioid is now not addictive at all. The Sacklers are the face of the scandal. The doctors have done a great job washing their hands clean and placing the blame on others.

Medicine in this country, especially in the last few years with Trump, is a massive snake oil operation.

Everyone including myself benefits from the use of Amphetamines. It is amazing that every single person who takes Amphetamines coincidentally loves how they make them feel. ¨No you don´t understand, I´m different. See, when I take Amphetamines I don´t bounce off the walls like most people, I become focused¨. This includes my own self with my Vyvanse script and, ahem, a litany of red flags in my medical records that should make any doctor think twice, well, turns out they like writing the scripts more than they like due diligence. Good for me, I guess.

Do I even have ADHD? I ADHD even a real thing or have we just become so slovenly lazy that we need our apathy to have a clinical definition. Everyone is ¨better¨ on Amphetamine. It makes every task more exciting, enjoyable and/or fun. Just like pain having no scientific metric, how do you differentiate between the guy who just loves Amphetamines and the person who ¨truly needs it¨. I read these posts on Reddit where people are like ¨I have legitimate ADHD and I can´t do my job without adderall. I´m tired of all these addicts who don´t even have ADHD who make it hard for us¨... get over your fucking self please. Just admit to the world and the universe that you have a mild speed habit and that´s just fine, you´ll figure it out someday. To claim that you´re a legitimate sufferer of a condition for which there is no scientific definition just proves that you were never taught to think for yourself.

The White House apparently has a pharmacy on lock that gives pills out to whomever wants them. Amphetamines, Benzodiazepines, Z-Drugs and even mild Opioids are essentially given out in an entirely informal manner. My point is, wealthy people cannot be addicts. Powerful people cannot be addicts. It is antithetical to their role in the world. They will never experience the desperation of being totally beat, sick and without help of any kind. They will never be forced to go to work sick from Opioids lest they get fired and lose literally everything they have. Money and power shield them from these things. Meanwhile, Republicans shit on addicts as immoral, irresponsible people despite the fact they have absolutely no true perspective regarding the hardships of life.

It is so easy to look at drug use as not problematic when you have a job, an apartment and money in the bank. When I was in Asia, the concept of Heroin addiction went from a ¨daily, life or death battle against Heaven, Hell and Satan himself¨ to ¨oh man, I forgot to pick up Heroin on my way home, now I have to put my slippers on and interrupt my Netflix¨.

It´s just easy to be judgemental when you´re doing great. It´s the good people who can have yet not lose their humanity. However, money/power is a drug stronger than Heroin and with a much harder withdrawal. Just like how you hear of people who use dope for their whole lives without any problems, there are people who obtain power yet don´t sell their souls, but they are rare.

I guess, society makes us out to be the lowest rung. Bad, dishonest people. We are living in a world created by these elites. We strive to find safety and happiness and in the process, some of us become addicts. I will say honestly, from the bottom of my heart, recovered addicts are truly the best people I have ever met. In almost all of us, underneath the filth and the judgement, we have hearts and only want the same love and connection as everyone else. We are often portrayed as the worst. Some of the folks I have known through my program and through Bluelight are some of the most genuinely kind, honest people I have ever met.

And once again, I have hijacked someone´s thread to ramble about nonsense. I´m not deleting it though, I´ve spent too much time.
 
Dude, give yourself a big pat on the back @Psynaught :)

You really have done a great job with all of this. I can be sober, yes; can I be sober with drugs constantly within arms´ reach. Well, let´s just say I stay sober by keeping those things at least out of my reach. I don´t have phone numbers. I don´t associate with fellow miscreants despite them being my people. I sell pharmaceuticals now as a second job. I sell drugs of a different variety to individuals with addictions that I do not fully understand. I´m selling anti-aging, peptides, GLP-1´s, NAD+, Hangover cures and botox among other things. Those people are addicted to Youth, which I find to be infinitely more sad than my addiction to Heroin.

See, I can actually do Heroin. They cannot actually be younger. They often make themselves into freaks in the process. I deal with stuck-up bitches who rail endlessly about Fauci, the liberals and how they are so proud they never ¨got the shot¨. Meanwhile, I am selling them ¨medicines¨ that, despite our claims, nobody really has a fucking clue how or where they are made. We proudly say ¨not China¨, which in all likelihood is untrue. Everyone is too poor to pay the rent, yet these bitches are all on anti-aging protocols that run $800-$1200/month between medications, injections and doctor visits.

Anyway, I am disgusted with myself because of how good I am at playing these simpletons. I´m sorry Ma´ám, but my honest opinion is that you should get off your fat ass every once in a while and exercise. Nope, they would rather give mother nature and God a big middle finger and consume ¨totally safe and tested¨ drugs that allow them to forego the exercise.

I guess my roundabout point, I am totally disgusted by the state of ¨medicine¨ in this country and probably globally. I have always known it to be essentially corrupt. Like police, you maintain your hope that their are good ones out there working for the greater good. Pain is defined as human suffering. We all know that pain cannot be reasoned with, ignored or finessed. People who are not in pain will say it is easy. To have that attitude is to be completely arrogant of what it means to be a human.

It´s just a missed call right? No, it is the catalyst for several days of extreme pain as someone is unable to get their medication. When you display any kind of attitude, you are quickly shuffled into the ¨problem¨ pile. Your complaints of pain are actually just addictive behaviors coming to the surface. You show up with notes to back up your claims. Your knowledge only proves that you are preoccupied with these drugs.

These things quickly become personal. You assume your doctor is a classically-trained scientist. You assume the Hippocratic Oath has a sacred meaning to all doctors. You assume that money is not their motivation, but a bonus to the hard work that they do. You assume that doctors are above vanity, above pettiness and above subjective/personal opinions being a part of their craft.

What you find in America is a radically different picture. The medical profession has lost all dignity in the wake of the latest Opioid Epidemic. They had no problem working hand in hand with organized crime to ensure poor Americans became addicted to these powerful Opioids. ¨Time Release makes them abuse-proof!¨ Any idiot with the most basic knowledge of pharmacy would assume that this is utterly ridiculous. Because two doses are administered at one time, the highly-addictive Opioid is now not addictive at all. The Sacklers are the face of the scandal. The doctors have done a great job washing their hands clean and placing the blame on others.

Medicine in this country, especially in the last few years with Trump, is a massive snake oil operation.

Everyone including myself benefits from the use of Amphetamines. It is amazing that every single person who takes Amphetamines coincidentally loves how they make them feel. ¨No you don´t understand, I´m different. See, when I take Amphetamines I don´t bounce off the walls like most people, I become focused¨. This includes my own self with my Vyvanse script and, ahem, a litany of red flags in my medical records that should make any doctor think twice, well, turns out they like writing the scripts more than they like due diligence. Good for me, I guess.

Do I even have ADHD? I ADHD even a real thing or have we just become so slovenly lazy that we need our apathy to have a clinical definition. Everyone is ¨better¨ on Amphetamine. It makes every task more exciting, enjoyable and/or fun. Just like pain having no scientific metric, how do you differentiate between the guy who just loves Amphetamines and the person who ¨truly needs it¨. I read these posts on Reddit where people are like ¨I have legitimate ADHD and I can´t do my job without adderall. I´m tired of all these addicts who don´t even have ADHD who make it hard for us¨... get over your fucking self please. Just admit to the world and the universe that you have a mild speed habit and that´s just fine, you´ll figure it out someday. To claim that you´re a legitimate sufferer of a condition for which there is no scientific definition just proves that you were never taught to think for yourself.

The White House apparently has a pharmacy on lock that gives pills out to whomever wants them. Amphetamines, Benzodiazepines, Z-Drugs and even mild Opioids are essentially given out in an entirely informal manner. My point is, wealthy people cannot be addicts. Powerful people cannot be addicts. It is antithetical to their role in the world. They will never experience the desperation of being totally beat, sick and without help of any kind. They will never be forced to go to work sick from Opioids lest they get fired and lose literally everything they have. Money and power shield them from these things. Meanwhile, Republicans shit on addicts as immoral, irresponsible people despite the fact they have absolutely no true perspective regarding the hardships of life.

It is so easy to look at drug use as not problematic when you have a job, an apartment and money in the bank. When I was in Asia, the concept of Heroin addiction went from a ¨daily, life or death battle against Heaven, Hell and Satan himself¨ to ¨oh man, I forgot to pick up Heroin on my way home, now I have to put my slippers on and interrupt my Netflix¨.

It´s just easy to be judgemental when you´re doing great. It´s the good people who can have yet not lose their humanity. However, money/power is a drug stronger than Heroin and with a much harder withdrawal. Just like how you hear of people who use dope for their whole lives without any problems, there are people who obtain power yet don´t sell their souls, but they are rare.

I guess, society makes us out to be the lowest rung. Bad, dishonest people. We are living in a world created by these elites. We strive to find safety and happiness and in the process, some of us become addicts. I will say honestly, from the bottom of my heart, recovered addicts are truly the best people I have ever met. In almost all of us, underneath the filth and the judgement, we have hearts and only want the same love and connection as everyone else. We are often portrayed as the worst. Some of the folks I have known through my program and through Bluelight are some of the most genuinely kind, honest people I have ever met.

And once again, I have hijacked someone´s thread to ramble about nonsense. I´m not deleting it though, I´ve spent too much time.
A lot of good points here Kief. You have always been a great source of info for me, and to be honest your posts and warnings have helped me greatly from developing a more serious opiod addiction. I had 4 days of Hell but am now feeling better. I didn't take any opioids today, 7 days out from my surgery. I did take 1.2 grams of Kratom and about 6 mgs of 7OH. The actual opioids I was taking where making me sick.

Interestingly, I make a little income myself from peptides. But 95% of the people I deal with are in the gym working hard, to they are putting that HGH to work. Nothing wrong with using a little Zepbound to help keep the weight off and blood sugar in check. I am using BP-157/TB-500 and GHK-Cu to speed up y shoulder recovery.

I will follow up some more tomorrow.
 
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@Psynaught we have much to discuss. I have been moonlighting as a pharmaceutical sales representative for the past couple of months.

I am in Vegas. You can imagine my clientele. I am pretty sure some of them are Reptilians, but I don't get in their business. I don't want to be too specific. It is all the "luxury" shit you can imagine, including peptides.

I do not like what I am doing. I have got to eat though.

If you are up to it, you should post your experience about using these peptides for recovery in more detail. We have a few folks on here currently in different stages of the surgery process.

I just caution everyone to do their due diligence before ordering/using this stuff.
 
@Psynaught we have much to discuss. I have been moonlighting as a pharmaceutical sales representative for the past couple of months.

I am in Vegas. You can imagine my clientele. I am pretty sure some of them are Reptilians, but I don't get in their business. I don't want to be too specific. It is all the "luxury" shit you can imagine, including peptides.

I do not like what I am doing. I have got to eat though.

If you are up to it, you should post your experience about using these peptides for recovery in more detail. We have a few folks on here currently in different stages of the surgery process.

I just caution everyone to do their due diligence before ordering/using this stuff.
I study everything massively. I have been on GH since my mid-late fifties. It has been extraordinarily beneficial. I had a cancer scare more than 6 months ago and went off HRT. Soon, I could barely move my right arm. Imaging showed it to be massively compromised. Bone on bone, many, many spurs, no cartilage, severe arthritis. However my full shoulder replacement was scheduled 2 months out. I ran BPC-157 for 6 wks and GH for 8. It was miraculous, My shoulder was still compromised but I could train (although much weaker) and do normal things.

I am back on BPC-157, GHK-Cu, and GH. I am only 10 days post surgery and believe my recovery is being greatly aided. However, eventually I am going off these compounds. None of them cause cancer but if you have it they feed it (or any kind of tissue growth). After 2 months I am going off, although I will run Sermorelin (very low dose) to keep my natural GH in the mid range. I do 180 mgs of test/week. Some of the medications I take (like the one for a scalp condition) make me nauseous, otherwise I would run Zepbound as well (I need to lose 10 lbs and my blood sugar is borderline). My wife lost more than 20 lbs on it. Granted there is no replacing good diet and exercise. I sell a 5 month supply of Zepbound for $220. American pharmacies charge $5k, despicable.

My general view of these compounds is that they greatly enhance life if used properly. There are tier 1 compounds, like the ones I am using, but others that are not nearly as good.

Big Pharm wants to control the peptide market to maintain their massive profits. That is why Hospira (the only legit source of bacteriostatic water needed to use peptides) was bought out by Phizer and is hard/expensive to get. Its all about money for them.
 
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