I’m an unrepentant hard drug user with an otherwise normal life

1k said:
Some people just don't have an off button. How do you help these people? Make sure they don't do drugs in the first place. Legalisation, while a civil libertarians dream, will simply expose more people who shouldn't do drugs period. It might sound harsh, but not all people are created equal, and if you can't get your drug taking and work balance together now with all of societies hang brakes against drug use, what makes you think these same people would be better off with unfettered access to pure products?
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That's a rather myopic view on legalization. The harm prohibition causes far outweighs the potential damage caused by people who couldn't control their use if drugs were legal. Shit, I can't believe I even had to say that. :\
 
Most people in my world have no problem with law enforcement, nor have any trouble sourcing drugs of excellent quality. They earn more than enough to support a sizeable habit with plenty left over for holidays and fancy cars, Yet plenty of these people still have plenty of problems with their drug use. Their addiction adversely affects their relationships with their families and still gets in the way of their job. They have the financial means to access the best medical treatments for their addiction but their life still unravels in a sad predictable manner . How exactly is legalisation going to improve these people's lives?

Some people are just not designed to take drugs sensibly or in moderation. It's every junkies dream that all their problems would go away if they had an unlimited stash and no fear of arrest but reality is the legal downside of drug use is nothing compared to the real adverse effects of an addiction.
 
You're focusing on a very narrow sect of drug users, who's lives will be the same regardless of what the current drug laws are. The vast majority of users are not in that group.

What about the 10's of thousands that are dead in Mexico due to prohibition? What about the millions world wide? What about the similarity between US prohibition and Jim Crow laws? What about people being afraid to call 911 since drugs are involved? What about social service access to the people that need help the most? What about the VAST amounts of money spent on drug law enforcement? What about the VAST amounts of money spent on the prison industry? What about corruption? What about places that execute drug dealers and users? etc, etc

That's just the tip of the iceberg, man.

There are plenty of better people/sites than can debate the merits of legalization than I can. Hell, just look up what Portugal is doing. Look up how heroin substitution has worked in Europe and Canada.

And yes, not all people are equal. But we could better spend our money/effort to help those that need it, instead of doing the same shit that has never worked.


You're right, there are consequences beyond incarceration. And those consequences are better addressed if everything was legal.
 
Have you been to Portugal? I can assure you that the criminals run the drug scene there just as ruthlessly as the Mexicans. The difference is they now employ low level runners who can avoid prosecution due to decriminalization of personal stashes. All this has done is legitimize the ghettos that exist is worrying numbers. In short Portugal is a shit hole, and I would argue a bigger shit hole now because of their drug laws. Having better access to the health system sure as hell doesn't make quitting any easier for these people. The social stigma may be more pleasant than in the US perhaps but the same vulnerable pockets of society are effected. These are the people who shouldn't have access to drugs in the first place as they and their families have the most to lose and the least means to avoid it happening.

Criminals will always exist to kill, to steal, to try and incarcerate. They won't start looking for a 9-5 job just because drugs are easier to access. Drug addiction will still be a useful tool for these people to manipulate and harm.
 
^Pfft. What a load of self-absorbed, arrogant twaddle.

You're talking about decriminalisation (Portugal) which is flawed (as manufacture and supply is illegal and unregulated - thus still run by underground syndicates and the like. "Criminals" and black markets still benefit; only one side of the coin).

Full legalisation is where it's at.

Do you have any evidence that legalisation means more people are exposed to drugs?
This is a very naive statement, as legalisation could - and should - mean regulation and allow a more sophisticated culture of use and real drug education to develop.

I don't care what "quality drugs" the bourgeois people from "your world" (ha) can acquire.

Solipsistic attitudes like that are just as fucking "criminal" if you ask me.

If you want to think about addiction being used to control people, cast a glance at the medical establishment's record over the years with medication for people with depression, insomnia, various other common problems; prescribed all manner of addictive, harmful chemicals. By doctors, psychiatrists, whoever.
"They" have 9-5 jobs.
....as if that is the measure of a good human being, right? Absolute nonsense.
 
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I'm didn't say that they didn't have problems, I was simply highlighting the fact that legal and supply concerns do not exist for these people, yet all of the problems of addiction do for many of them. Ask the children of any drug addict, rich or poor if they would like to see drugs legalised and I doubt you would get much support.

Not everyone should be allowed to use drugs. Some people just don't either have the self control or genetics to successfully use drugs. I'm sorry if you fall into that pocket of society but I won't make any apologies for calling it how I see it.
 
"These people"
"People in my world"
"Some people shouldn't be allowed to..."

I don't fall into any "pocket of society" except the one that disagrees vehemently with your attitudes on this subject;
Judgemental, narrow-minded and ignorant as fuck.
 
thujone said:
Yeah, well I'm a really good driver drunk, so let me just assemble a bunch of anecdotal reasons why I should be allowed to do it.
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So, to get it clear, you mean we all trust you takin 1 ton of metal and drive it at 50, 60, 70 mph, to the streets while drunk.
You don't seem to have undestood fully the basics of it. Like the author is drugging herself and no threatening other being smashed with a car.
 
One Thousand Words said:
Have you been to Portugal? I can assure you that the criminals run the drug scene there just as ruthlessly as the Mexicans. The difference is they now employ low level runners who can avoid prosecution due to decriminalization of personal stashes. All this has done is legitimize the ghettos that exist is worrying numbers. In short Portugal is a shit hole, and I would argue a bigger shit hole now because of their drug laws. Having better access to the health system sure as hell doesn't make quitting any easier for these people. The social stigma may be more pleasant than in the US perhaps but the same vulnerable pockets of society are effected. These are the people who shouldn't have access to drugs in the first place as they and their families have the most to lose and the least means to avoid it happening.

Criminals will always exist to kill, to steal, to try and incarcerate. They won't start looking for a 9-5 job just because drugs are easier to access. Drug addiction will still be a useful tool for these people to manipulate and harm.
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I've never been to Portugal. I've read and seen about how they handle addicts, which is what I'm concerned about. It's not always about quitting. Some people can never quit. It's about being treated humanely and having your disease managed as well as it can be. It's about staying out of jail/prison. It's about having a medical record instead of a criminal one. It's about securing some sort of dwelling, job, etc. Social services like that are not accessible to the majority of addicts because of prohibition. You can argue that decrim can help that, but that still leaves the criminal element, the high profits, and all the other shit I mentioned above. (Which you never addressed, not that I'm asking for you to.)

Of course criminals will always exist. There's evidence that they're moving into other industries even in Mexico, but that doesn't mean you don't try to stop their #1 source of income the best way you can.

1k said:
Not everyone should be allowed to use drugs. Some people just don't either have the self control or genetics to successfully use drugs.
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I'm just waiting for you to bring up eugenics. :D
 
I was actually going to say intelligence but knew it would piss more people off if I inferred they are idiots.

neversickanymore said:
OTW.. are you a successful drug user with an otherwise normal life?
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I'm successful in that I would be happy for my kids to follow in my foot steps. I enjoy drugs from time to time but I think I respect them enough that I should be allowed to use them. Am I special? Perhaps, or perhaps there is just a significant proportion of the population who ruin it for the rest of us.

I had dinner with the Japanese Consulate a couple of weekends ago and while he was smashing beers I drank cranberry juice and ducked off to the bathroom to powder my nose. I wasn't exactly going to broadcast to the rest of our table that I was doing coke but at the same time I was restrained enough that they were none the wiser. There were several guys, including a drunk Irishman who from experience I know would be a fucking nightmare yayo'd out of his mind so I kept it to myself. If I had much optimism for the rest of society to handle drug use wisely I would be open to legalisation but nothing it has shown me over the past 40 years gives me hope it could cope. It might be selfish but I'm happy with the status quo.
 
One Thousand Words said:
I was actually going to say intelligence but knew it would piss more people off if I inferred they are idiots.



I'm successful in that I would be happy for my kids to follow in my foot steps. I enjoy drugs from time to time but I think I respect them enough that I should be allowed to use them. Am I special? Perhaps, or perhaps there is just a significant proportion of the population who ruin it for the rest of us.

I had dinner with the Japanese Consulate a couple of weekends ago and while he was smashing beers I drank cranberry juice and ducked off to the bathroom to powder my nose. I wasn't exactly going to broadcast to the rest of our table that I was doing coke but at the same time I was restrained enough that they were none the wiser. There were several guys, including a drunk Irishman who from experience I know would be a fucking nightmare yayo'd out of his mind so I kept it to myself. If I had much optimism for the rest of society to handle drug use wisely I would be open to legalisation but nothing it has shown me over the past 40 years gives me hope it could cope. It might be selfish but I'm happy with the status quo.
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This is the reason I posted the article. Most people are this way and prohibition hasn't saved many if any from problems anyway. Also I think you put to much emphasis on the genetics. I feal that a great deal of the genetics and their relation to addiction are more to do with something in the genetics causing a person to be naturally unhappy enough to want to take large amounts of drugs in a manor that increase is their chance for addiction. I was a very successful drug user for decades, then one day something changed. But then again I worked through my shit and am now able to consume certain drugs with no ill effects.
 
I'd rather listen to hair metal than any hip hop produced in the past decade. Drugs are required for most EDM while we are playing jukebox hero.

It takes real talent and effect to get into trouble, but a large proportion of the drug taking population do. I liken the effects of illegality as a handbrake that prevents a lot more harm than it applies. We can agree to disagree if you wish, just don't expect me walking in the protest march for reform of all drugs. There are some drugs I feel are fine, cannabis being one, but opening my neighbourhood to meth or around 90% of the research chemicals out there is a foolish policy for mind
 
^ protest marches are very last century.

The research chemical market explosion is a symptom of prohibition, not a result of liberalisation.
In fact I'd wager it is a large reason for the law reform debate that is actually making its way into the mainstream western media.
Having your personal prejudices is all well and good - you let us know your social standing at every opportunity, but your arguments just arent logical.
 
It might be selfish but I'm happy with the status quo.
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Yeah, it is selfish. And most well-off, white drug users are like you. They don't care because they're not the target.
 
phrozen said:
I'm just waiting for you to bring up eugenics. :D
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Haha. Yes.

I'm trying to decide if according to OTW I fit into the group of people who should be "allowed" to do drugs or not.

If someone wants to do drugs, they will. Regardless of legality. Similarly, if someone is uninterested, making the drugs legal will probably not change their feelings about it. That's my two cents...
 
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