Canadianed
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1
Hi everyone, first post. I hope I am doing this right. I read through the rules, etc and of course did a search (here and online) but came up with nothing specific so here goes:
I have a legitimate need for pain relief and after being on a large oral dose of codeine for many years (900+ mgs/day of codeine contin plus tylenol4) I was put on an oral dose of Hydromorphone(HM) 9mg contin x 2 + 2mg IR x 2. The switch came because I was getting very little, if any, pain relief, I started to develop constipation issues and I also have some liver issues so my doc said the Hydromorphone would be easier on my liver than the ASA in the tylenol 4, etc.
After a few weeks of taking 22mg of HM orally in total on a daily basis I still wasn't getting the pain relief I needed so I experimented with plugging. I started slow (plugged 4.5mg and ate 6.5, then a few hours later I plugged 9 and ate 2. Next day I plugged 9 and ate 2 and then I plugged all 11 at the end of the day and that seems to be the best). I must say, plugging was quite a bit better than oral and seemed to last longer. I didn't get high or anything like that I just felt comfortable and my pain was a little more manageable.
I did it like this:
Since the 9mg is a contin type (extended release blue capsule with couple dozen small hard white beads inside) I do have to take a bit of extra time to crush them thoroughly. The 2mg IR's crush easily. So I spend 2 to 3 minutes crushing the contin with a pestle. I acquired an oral syringe easily at the local grocery store (which has a drug store inside) by simply asking for something to administer a liquid drug to my cat. They offered me a 5ml and 1ml type- I took the 5 of course! So I suck up about 2ml of clean bottled water (our tap water is heavily treated) into the syringe and then pour the 11mg of HM in.
I then top the syringe up (not to the top, you should leave room for the plunger unlike I did the first time, doh!) with clean water in a small cup. Put the plunger in slowly and carefully and then to the syringe upright and plug the end with tip of your finger and shake. I found it helps to hold the syringe sideways or upright until I am ready to inject it into my butt or else it will clog the end- yes even a 5ml syringe will clog. I think it's because the HM Contin is designed to gel so it is more difficult to IV? Anyhow, once you do it a few times it gets easier and you develop your own technique.
Soooo...I went in to see my doc a few days ago and told him the HM wasn't really taking all my pain away and he suddenly switched me to Morphine Sulfate IR (20mg pill every 4 to 5 hours)!! He kind of caught me off guard suggesting the switch so I just went with it but after I got home and took the MS orally it really didn't help my pain- it did make me itchy, sick to my stomach(in a bad way) and irritable though ;P
Of course I tried my pluggin method (at least 6 times now) and natta, zilch, zero. Mind you it was easier to make into a liquid and didn't gel at all- smooth as silk as far as delivery goes but no pain relief at all. I only have a week supply and I have to go back and see him to report results but I am thinking about going back earlier to have him switch me back to Hydromorphone. He did mention he would put the HM up to 12mg of contin as well.
So I have a few questions if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it. If any of my questions are out of line I do apologize ahead of time but it's been frustrating to say the least trying to get accurate drug info (I realize the irony in me saying that considering I am posting i a web forum):
1. Should I wait longer than 3 to 4 days of the Morphone Sulfate IR? Does it sometimes take a few days or a week or 2 to 'work'? I looked around here and it seems the plugging results from MS is lackluster at best.
2. Is there a limit on how much I can plug a day / each time? I know this is a general question and different for everyone but as I said above, I was plugging about 11mg twice a day of HM with some pain relief and I don't want to ruin this and build too high a tolerance too fast when I go back to them. I read about John Burrows having great success plugging with HM but then all of a sudden he lost all his tolerance and ended up having to use IV to get relief. I want to avoid that at all costs as I NEVER want to put a needle in my arm (no offense to John and those who do, I would never judge).
3. Because of my liver issues and my need for a relatively high dose and past constipation issues could someone recommend a different medication they might think would work better for me than HM or MS? This might be a no-no question but my physician is open to suggestions and I have no idea, really what to suggest to him. He literally asked me what I think he should try me on. I was thinking Oxycodone but I read all the horror stories about them so I'm afraid to even ask for them. I hear people have good results with pain with Hydrocodone but I want to stay away from codeine derivatives (if thats what that is?).
4. With me having liver issues doesn't it make sense to use a lower dose of opiates via plugging rather than a higher dose via oral to get the same results? I guess it all still goes through the liver but I assume the lower the amount that goes through the liver the better. Then again when taken orally the stomach probably takes alot of the strain off the liver by breaking it down some in there first before it reaches the liver...oh my I'm in over my head now lol...so I'll end it here.
If anyone does answer please keep in mind that I'm a stay-at-home dad with two toddlers and I work from home full-time too so I really need to get this pain under control ASAP but I also need to do it without being a mindless zombie. That beind said, however, there are times when I need a very high dose and would be bed ridden for a day or so in pain (of course I have someone I can call when that happens and I need help with the kids). I would sometimes go to the hospital for a shot of Demerol (I think it was, anyways) and there was liquid morphine before I think too in out-patients (ER). Never got HM in the hospital before though...
Thanks for reading and much love to you all
I have a legitimate need for pain relief and after being on a large oral dose of codeine for many years (900+ mgs/day of codeine contin plus tylenol4) I was put on an oral dose of Hydromorphone(HM) 9mg contin x 2 + 2mg IR x 2. The switch came because I was getting very little, if any, pain relief, I started to develop constipation issues and I also have some liver issues so my doc said the Hydromorphone would be easier on my liver than the ASA in the tylenol 4, etc.
After a few weeks of taking 22mg of HM orally in total on a daily basis I still wasn't getting the pain relief I needed so I experimented with plugging. I started slow (plugged 4.5mg and ate 6.5, then a few hours later I plugged 9 and ate 2. Next day I plugged 9 and ate 2 and then I plugged all 11 at the end of the day and that seems to be the best). I must say, plugging was quite a bit better than oral and seemed to last longer. I didn't get high or anything like that I just felt comfortable and my pain was a little more manageable.
I did it like this:
Since the 9mg is a contin type (extended release blue capsule with couple dozen small hard white beads inside) I do have to take a bit of extra time to crush them thoroughly. The 2mg IR's crush easily. So I spend 2 to 3 minutes crushing the contin with a pestle. I acquired an oral syringe easily at the local grocery store (which has a drug store inside) by simply asking for something to administer a liquid drug to my cat. They offered me a 5ml and 1ml type- I took the 5 of course! So I suck up about 2ml of clean bottled water (our tap water is heavily treated) into the syringe and then pour the 11mg of HM in.
I then top the syringe up (not to the top, you should leave room for the plunger unlike I did the first time, doh!) with clean water in a small cup. Put the plunger in slowly and carefully and then to the syringe upright and plug the end with tip of your finger and shake. I found it helps to hold the syringe sideways or upright until I am ready to inject it into my butt or else it will clog the end- yes even a 5ml syringe will clog. I think it's because the HM Contin is designed to gel so it is more difficult to IV? Anyhow, once you do it a few times it gets easier and you develop your own technique.
Soooo...I went in to see my doc a few days ago and told him the HM wasn't really taking all my pain away and he suddenly switched me to Morphine Sulfate IR (20mg pill every 4 to 5 hours)!! He kind of caught me off guard suggesting the switch so I just went with it but after I got home and took the MS orally it really didn't help my pain- it did make me itchy, sick to my stomach(in a bad way) and irritable though ;P
Of course I tried my pluggin method (at least 6 times now) and natta, zilch, zero. Mind you it was easier to make into a liquid and didn't gel at all- smooth as silk as far as delivery goes but no pain relief at all. I only have a week supply and I have to go back and see him to report results but I am thinking about going back earlier to have him switch me back to Hydromorphone. He did mention he would put the HM up to 12mg of contin as well.
So I have a few questions if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it. If any of my questions are out of line I do apologize ahead of time but it's been frustrating to say the least trying to get accurate drug info (I realize the irony in me saying that considering I am posting i a web forum):
1. Should I wait longer than 3 to 4 days of the Morphone Sulfate IR? Does it sometimes take a few days or a week or 2 to 'work'? I looked around here and it seems the plugging results from MS is lackluster at best.
2. Is there a limit on how much I can plug a day / each time? I know this is a general question and different for everyone but as I said above, I was plugging about 11mg twice a day of HM with some pain relief and I don't want to ruin this and build too high a tolerance too fast when I go back to them. I read about John Burrows having great success plugging with HM but then all of a sudden he lost all his tolerance and ended up having to use IV to get relief. I want to avoid that at all costs as I NEVER want to put a needle in my arm (no offense to John and those who do, I would never judge).
3. Because of my liver issues and my need for a relatively high dose and past constipation issues could someone recommend a different medication they might think would work better for me than HM or MS? This might be a no-no question but my physician is open to suggestions and I have no idea, really what to suggest to him. He literally asked me what I think he should try me on. I was thinking Oxycodone but I read all the horror stories about them so I'm afraid to even ask for them. I hear people have good results with pain with Hydrocodone but I want to stay away from codeine derivatives (if thats what that is?).
4. With me having liver issues doesn't it make sense to use a lower dose of opiates via plugging rather than a higher dose via oral to get the same results? I guess it all still goes through the liver but I assume the lower the amount that goes through the liver the better. Then again when taken orally the stomach probably takes alot of the strain off the liver by breaking it down some in there first before it reaches the liver...oh my I'm in over my head now lol...so I'll end it here.
If anyone does answer please keep in mind that I'm a stay-at-home dad with two toddlers and I work from home full-time too so I really need to get this pain under control ASAP but I also need to do it without being a mindless zombie. That beind said, however, there are times when I need a very high dose and would be bed ridden for a day or so in pain (of course I have someone I can call when that happens and I need help with the kids). I would sometimes go to the hospital for a shot of Demerol (I think it was, anyways) and there was liquid morphine before I think too in out-patients (ER). Never got HM in the hospital before though...
Thanks for reading and much love to you all
