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Hydromorphone Tolerance For Beginner.

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Supeudol

Supeudol

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
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Location
Alberta, Canada.
Hey BL members. I was wondering if you could help me out with this one.
Basically, a buddy of mine wants to try a line or two (he doesn't really do opiates.. he's never done hydromorph or anything like that, i don't even think oxy's.)

Anyways I am trying to figure out what mg dosage I should give him (intranasal of course).

I myself can do 60mg or more insufflated but I have quite the huge opiate tolerance.

So I am wondering what you guys think?
I was thinking anywhere from 12-18 mg or so for a good long lasting high, in that range. Remember guys these is for INTRANASAL.

Hydromorphone is also VERY quite potent if used properly and ground up properly (Intranasal).

Thanks :)
 
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Those are very high doses for someone without an opioid tolerance. I think of oral hydromorphone as five times the potency of oral morphine so snorting would double that to ten times. Even 10mgs snorted would be equivalent to 100mg of oral morphine which is a huge dose for a beginner.

Try this Beginner's Dosage Guide

Ideally I'd start him on something besides hydromorphone.
 
I don't find Hydromorphone like Morphine at all. I infact HATE Morphine and have never gotten high off it. Even chewing down 2 200mg MSContins. THe MS-IR's I have only felt a mild nice buzz from them.
 
That's to much. I recently did 10 mgs of dilaudid snorted after enough time away from opiates to have my tolerance at zero, and it was to much. Not that I thought myself in danger, or even that it was unpleasant, but it was certainly a waste.
 
For someone with no tolerance 12-18 mg's is probably too much. More like 6mg's maybe. I dont have a lot of experience with dilaudid in pill form, most of my experience is with oxycodone and oxymorphone, but I do have some. I think hydromorph is supposed to be about as strong as oxymorph, maybe a little weaker as a pill, and a begginer with oxymorph should only take 5mg's. With dilaudid I would go with 6 to maybe 8mg's max for a beginner.
 
I have a somewhat mild opiate tolerance and snorting 8mgs was great for me.
 
Supeudol said:
I don't find Hydromorphone like Morphine at all. I infact HATE Morphine and have never gotten high off it. Even chewing down 2 200mg MSContins. THe MS-IR's I have only felt a mild nice buzz from them.
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You have to IV morphine to truly experience it, just like hydromorphone.
Have you even ever IV'd anything?
 
kokaino said:
You have to IV morphine to truly experience it, just like hydromorphone.
Have you even ever IV'd anything?
Click to expand...

No, I don't IV, thats just asking for bad news and a worse addiction.
You don't have to IV Hydromorphone to truly experience it.
Just like you don't have to IV Oxycodone to truly experience it.

There are lots of opioids out there you don't need to 'IV' to truly experience them.
 
You're correct about oxycodone, IVing oxycodone is stupid, since the Oral bio-availability is already up damn near 90%.

*Edited*

BUT if you insist on insufflation, with no tolerance start at 2mg and work your way up. Good chance it won't be enough, but better than railing an entire 8mg pill and getting sicker than shit.
 
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^ There really is no harm reduction value in those 2 middle paragraphs and I hate when people say that. People without substantial tolerance can certainly benefit from oral hydromorphone and morphine otherwise they wouldn't be on the market.

The little disclaimer after the fact does little to mitigate the fact that disseminating these claims likely does promote more harm.
 
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I have a friend that snorted 4mg of dilaudid & was lit up. He has an average tolerance at best but from what he has stated, if you want to snort a good pill & get really high, only way to go is oxymorphone (Opana) from what he has stated.

He also states that you should start very small when snorting Opana & Diluadid but he emphasized definitely start small with Opana, like 2mgs if you have a low tolerance.
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^ There really is no harm reduction value in those 2 middle paragraphs and I hate when people say that. People without substantial tolerance can certainly benefit from oral hydromorphone and morphine otherwise THEY WOULDN'T BE ON THE MARKET.

The little disclaimer after the fact does little to mitigate the fact that disseminating these claims likely does promote more harm.
Click to expand...

Alright, I agree, I'll edit it.. I realize it isn't the most HR promoting stand point, but like I said and I am sure many others would agree. When it comes to morphine or hydromorphone takign it orally and insufflating it is a waste. Even with no tolerance.. The BA is so fucking low.

In the hospital, they STARTED me out on 2mg dilaudid IV every 4 hours. With no tolerance.

There is a difference between obtaining quality analgesia, and obtaining a quality high. Two different things. Oral hydromorphone is effective for pain. But in regards to getting 'high', it is garbage.

I'm not condoning IV use by any means and if you can get good effects of eating or insufflating hydromorphone that is great. But I just wouldn't expect you to be blown away or anything.

Why do you hate when people say that? HR aside, how is stating that IVing something produces the best experience, wrong? It's the truth, for many substances. To a non IV user though I wouldn't expect you to fully understand.. And I don't mean that in a condescending way or anything.

Sorrrrry.
 
^ my problem wasn't with you saying its the best experience, it was with these lines...


"...Iving them is the only good way to get the TRUE experience."

"...and taking them orally is shit."

My main issue was that it doesn't reduce harm, it indirectly promotes harm by glorifying a more dangerous route and lastly its completely unrelated to the question of how much a beginner should dose for insufflated hydromorphone.
 
Oh i gotcha. Sorry about that. Sometimes I type and my personal non harm reduction related opinions seem to get snuck in there.

And it wasn't a general statement, I said FOR ME oral hydromorphone is shit. Because it is.. I've been prescribed it about 9 times at 24mg a day.. To take orally. Which wouldn't even kill the pain.

Anyways, don't shoot pills kids without a micron filter. And don't do it without a tolerance that's for sure.
 
BrokedownPalace said:
Oh i gotcha. Sorry about that. Sometimes I type and my personal non harm reduction related opinions seem to get snuck in there.

And it wasn't a general statement, I said FOR ME oral hydromorphone is shit. Because it is.. I've been prescribed it about 9 times at 24mg a day.. To take orally. Which wouldn't even kill the pain.

Anyways, don't shoot pills kids without a micron filter. And don't do it without a tolerance that's for sure.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the warning but I wont be shooting anything, ever............at least I hope not!
 
I have a huge opiate tolerance so I'm not talking about myself. I can insufflate over 60mg's at a time and feel pretty good. When I started insufflated Hydromorphone, 12mg's would get me high as a kite. (Not trying to dicksize here).

Hydromorphone has close to 60% B/A when insufflated. You don't HAVE to IV Hydromorphone in order to enjoy it. This is about harm reduction after all.

My original question was - what would be a good starting dose for a beginner (A friend of mine).
I think this has been answered, as around 6-12mg would be a good starting dose for insufflation.
Hydromorphone is about 5-8x more potent than Morphine.

THe only opiate to get effects from in which you need to IV would be Morphine. Otherwise, the rest of the opioids/opiates can be done orally or insufflated with good results. Hence why I hate Morphine. Recommending somebody to IV something is a bad idea, since this is an HR forum after all. This is why I will never buy Morphine. I wish that Hydrocodone was prescribed more often in Canada. We have it as Hycodan (pure hydrocodone in 5mg tablets with no APAP or anything else.)
But its like impossible to get a script for it where I am.

I think we can close this now, as my question has been answered.
 
Although morphine has low bioavailbility taken orally and rectally, and even worse nasally, plugging it after adjusting the pH and snorting with chitosan both greatly increase the absorption.
 
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