Human Beings Suck Ass, Basically.

[Twentypointfive]

Bluelighter, you and I would get along just fine.

Some people definately do suck ass. Not all of them tho (as such yourself). I believe in the ole bible saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" aka treat others how you want to be treated. Im not a believer at all but there is a lot of good stuff in there, regardless. There are generalities and stereotypes that people posess for sure but there are also acceptions to everything. Dont close your mind and emotions cause everytime you do theres a chance you could miss out on a cool person or experience. Ive delt with the worst people youd ever meet straight out of my own family! And Ive made friends with people I assumed were terrible people. If you start judging everyone instantly ur no better than the rest of these ass holes

 

[JackiePeyton]

Huh? I don't follow... like, at all.

My husband's nephew is a state cop. He pulled him over- I won't even get into the stop at this point. Nonetheless he wouldn't let him drive home and he had to walk like 3 miles with pneumonia and massive ascites from liver failure. I think that's just a bang-up family move and yes indeed humans do suck

My asshole nephew state cop pulled him over and wouldn't allow him to drive. He had no ride and he left him there to walk home sick

 

[Foreigner]

undiminished689 has received a temporary ban and has been removed from this thread. All irrelevant and insulting discourse has also been cut.

In the future, if someone here is behaving inappropriately toward you, please use the REPORT function and let the mods handle it rather than veer the thread into major off topic territory.

 

[Ketamania]

I hate human fallibility and sinful nature.

Too many times have the the mistakes of others hurt me.

People need to stop bashing others on here

 

[Patrickforsterter]

People who say we have destroyed the world or humans are bad know nothing and are ignorant open your eyes who makes and enforced the law who controls the world and hence human the government and establishment we are just individuals we can't enforce a law to stop dumping oil and god knows what else into the atmosphere we can't stop ivory traders or dolphin enslavwements all people have done is lI'I and survive feed their families and get by wake up.

 

[Patrickforsterter]

Oh and to stay on topic yes humans do suck. We are greedy whining shriveling fucking beasts who are great at killing each other and getting drunk and.beating our own families every night. For dark there is light. Polarity. We create beautiful art and music, we go out of our way to help others and their needs. We give homes to million of unadopted animals. The universe runs on love and not evil, the.universe exists so obviously there must be some good out there, correct? The world is 100% completely fucked and there is nothing we can do about it except stay positive and help each other. Just because this world is fucked doesnt mean WE as a conciousness is fucked. This is not the only dimension, we live in one of many - even quantum physics/mechanics displays and proves this. Humans are the epitome of duality. Divine beings in animal bodies. Wash that fur you dirty animals. Positive thinking, first and foremost!!! Deep down I am free and happy and so are all of you. We are God.

..you might be that but I am a nice person and I make an effort everyday to be kind to others polite I love animals and love this planet because it makes me feel good to be nice I feel at one when I'm in nature I am not gonna sit here and say were are this and that it's all our stupid fault if only we horrible satanic humans would learn cus it's a lot lot more complicated than that we are just slaves to the establishments secret society's.. Whatever you wanna call them they are the true killers who let the world get like this if they wanted to they could put in proper laws to protect wildlife protect the atmosphere protect the world but it's the same old shit everyday half arsed cancer treatments Alzheimer's I'm fuking sick of it children dying everyday all round the world are we responsible no we are just like the other animals every single person has good in them everyone I believe it they're more brainwashed out of their face on serotonin antidepressants shit it ain't humans it's satanic evil it's everywhere.

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ I agree with the gist of what you're saying, I think. I think it's a defeatist fallacy to say that ALL humans suck ass. Most people are good people who, even if they participate in the systems that have damaged things, only do so because they have no choice, or don't know any better. The vast majority of people just want to live happy lives and protect those they love. Many people are led to destructive attitudes and hatreds through fear that is purposely instilled in them in order to control them. You can't blame people for doing what they think is best for their loved ones.

Certain people certainly do suck ass though, the sociopaths who purposely pervert culture to serve themselves. As a whole, we are an interesting species, simultaneously destructive and creative, loving and sensitive, and heartless. There is no black and white here. It does no good to just fixate on the bad because it causes you to focus on negativity, which helps no one at all, least of all yourself.

 

[Patrickforsterter]

^You perfectly articulated the source of my depression. And yet I am what is called a people lover. Individually I rarely meet someone that I cannot relate to on at least some level, and many that I like and even deeply love but collectively (and I include myself in this) we are a destructive virus; the plant and animal lover in me goes around in a constant state of guilty anguish.

aww bless you

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Self-hatred isn't logical. Everything is relative and humans are the only social species. We can't compare ourselves to anything else. So, it is yet to be determined whether or not we are responsible for our actions. It seems more likely (to me) that the actions of the human race are a natural part of social evolution... I don't understand why people are so pessimistic about the human race. We don't suck ass. We're a work in progress, but we're pretty amazing.

 

[Xorkoth]

I agree with you except that humans are far from the only social species. Dolphins, for example, are extremely social and have 4 times as developed language centers in their brains as us (they have names for themselves). Elephants are also extremely social... also pretty much any primate. And lots of others.

I think people get pessimistic because we've done so much damage to the planet and in large groups we have continually performed atrocities against one another. I don't think we suck ass, but I think some of us do.

 

[tokezu]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but I'd still like to add my two cents to the antinatalism discussion a few pages back.

All you are saying is "what if" they get lucky.

And you're saying what if they get unlucky... what's the difference in strength of reasoning here?

If the potential child comes into existence it will probably experience pleasure as well as pain. The presence of pleasure is a good thing. The presence of pain is a bad thing. On the other hand if the potential child does not come into existence it will experience neither pleasure nor pain. The absence of pain is a good thing (even if there is nobody around to enjoy it). The absence of pleasure isn't a bad thing (if there is nobody around to miss it). If the potential child comes into existence there is a risk of the bad outweighing the good, if it doesn't come into existence there is no such risk. I think it's better to err on the side of caution.

I'm not going to just assume that some future theoretical offspring of mine is going to suffer horribly. Of course they'll suffer sometimes, but hopefully their life is more good than bad. There's a solid chance of it. And hey, you know, my parents and my siblings are all happy people, too. And my parents' parents were, too. I think the chances are much better than average that if I had a kid, they'd have a pretty good life. I know lots of people who are more happy than unhappy.

Even if you knew there is a 99% chance of your potential child experiencing their life as a net-positive, you're still taking a gamble. It is this gamble that I object to. Imagine someone walking into a casino and placing a bet at the roulette table, but they are not betting on behalf of themselves but on behalf of their child. If they choose correctly their child wins a lot of money, but if they choose wrongly their child will have to pay the bet amount. That wouldn't be right, would it? I think you shouldn't gamble with other peoples money, not even if the odds are good.

@tokezu

Hail Eris

All Hail Discordia! :D

 

[Xorkoth]

So what you'ere saying is you would personally choose nonexistence over a 1% chance of suffering? By your line of reasoning, you would have to admit you'd rather your parents hadn't had you. Because anyone who is thankful to their parents for having given birth to them refutes your assertion. Betting at a casino is a much different situation than choosing whether to have a child, so it's not a very good analogy. Yeah, I will always say that I shouldn't bet with someone else's money, and I wouldn't want someone else to bet with my money either. But when the stakes are existence or nonexistence, the game changes. Granted, nonexistence is easy (it isn't anything). But what about the goodness of existence for the fact that it is something?

I, for one, am thankful that my parents had me. Yeah it's been really hard sometimes. It's hard now. But I still love it. I still prefer it to nonexistence.

 

[tokezu]

No. What I'm saying is that I would personally choose not to procreate over even the smallest chance of having a child that experiences it's life as a net negative.

Yes, to be honest for me personally existence hasn't been such a sweet deal so far and and sometimes I find myself thinking that I would have rather not been born. I think that's not too uncommon among people arguing for antinatalism. If you yourself have ever felt like that then you're probably more sensitive to the fact that you might create an equally miserable situation for someone else by having a child. But I don't think this feeling is in any way necessary to arrive at the same conclusion. I don't see how the fact that there are people who are thankful to have been born refutes anything that I wrote. I never said these people don't exist, I am well aware that they make up the vast majority of the population. But the undeniable fact is that there are people who wish that they would never have been born and that means that if I ever had a child there is possibility that my child would be among those who feel like that. You might say the chance is very low, but you can't argue with the fact that there is a chance my child would have a miserable life. I am not willing to take that chance.

If I had such a child that felt it's life was a net negative, what would I be supposed to tell it? "Sorry kiddo, I thought the odds in favor of you becoming a happy person were good enough to give it a chance."? That would be no consolation to the child, just a cruel reminder that I took a gamble and now someone who had no say in the matter is going to have to pay the price for it. Could you explain to me why you think the casino is a bad analogy? Apart from the fact that gambling with someone elses life is much more serious than gambling with someone elses money of course. Maybe I haven't really thought my argument through, because I have hardly ever discussed this topic with others since I know how dismissive people are of it. But to me it seems that when you decide to have a child then you are making bet on behalf of this potential child. You're making a prediction that the child's existence will over all be worthwhile. If your prediction is correct then your child gets the prize, i.e. a happy life. If your prediction is wrong then your child has to suffer the consequences, i.e. a life that to them seems not worth living.

I am not sure what you mean by "But what about the goodness of existence for the fact that it is something?", could you elaborate?

 

[|~~ANT~~|]

Dolphins are hardly comparable to humans, in this way.
They don't have the capacity to commit similar atrocities.

Ants are social too.
Dolphins are closer to ants in terms of their capacity for wrongdoing.

Humans are the only species that have developed significant social constructs and the only species with technology.

Also: male dolphins rape female dolphins, they also rape male dolphins and they've been known to gang rape both... They also rape other species sometimes (including attempts to rape humans). Are there more acts of dolphin kindness than there are acts of dolphin rape? I doubt it.

tokezu,
I've just had a child - a little girl - she's two months old. Most people, despite experiencing some pain - want to live. If you want to live (ie. if you don't want to commit suicide) then the child also probably wants to live. The odds are very high that the child wants life, despite pain, like the rest of us.

The casino isn't a good analogy (for me) because it's completely random, whereas you can do a lot to ensure the well being of your children. Is it a gamble when adopting a puppy? Or does it depend (more) on how you treat the dog?

Sometimes it's impossible to raise children so they're happy. But, I look around at parents (including my own) and I can see what has resulted from certain things being neglected.

Parenting is hard, but if you are super vigilant and consistent it's pretty likely your kids will be relatively well balanced.

I think people get pessimistic because we've done so much damage to the planet and in large groups we have continually performed atrocities against one another.

But, we're getting so much better all the time.

Cue: that Beatles song.