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How we rolled in the 90s when the pills were super strong

Oh man those were incredible. Definitely not average American pills, they would have sold just as well in Holland no doubt.

They were at least 100mg of MDA, and the BEST pressed pills I've ever seen. It's not a normal pill, it's pressed in 3 layers... crazy shit.

They were really mother fucking rare though. You had to know people to get them, you couldn't just show up at a rave and hope to see them
 
Yes I guess you have a valid point Folley. But I'd just like to say anything is possible my friend, that's why it's best when not knowing the strength of the pill to start slow and dose accordingly. :) but yes, again I look at America section of PR and it saddens me to see the drought that is happen there now and I only have faith that the E gods will shine upon you guys.
 
Nah dude, you're the one with the good point. *snip* Mod edit: Please do not advise double or triple dropping for a 'full dose'. I know it was an offhand remark, just be careful

That's what pillreports is for, people can give you an idea of the strength then at least. There's a reason I never touch American pills though lol, too fucking hard to dose.
 
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parachuteantics said:
PeaceLoveUnityRespect (with the extra R is responsibility). I guess it depends on the interpretation and the person...the kids I spoke with were anti-drug who used PLURR (with the extra R). I could see it going both ways though: responsibility of proper drug useage or no drug useage at all.
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PLURRUBSHY

Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Responsibility, Understanding, Beauty, Satisfaction, Happiness, Yodeling

a simple formula for living
 
for some people in the 90's pills sucked completely. there was a lot of interest in it. time magazine did a cover story on it. it was on the news frequently. there was a large market of people trying it. tons of demand. i'm sure for some people it's still that way depending on where you live.
 
also, being young and in shape and smaller and new to the experience would make it more sensational i think.
 
In the UK the Market is flooded with reasonable pills. All of various quality. Still a lot of pipes around however.

Pills in the 90s were different. Not so much MDMA content as proven in the test results but fuck me they blew your head off.

Im not with the downregulation argument im still with something in the chemistry of it.

I was chatting with someone on here recently who reacts weirdly to defqons. They are pure MDMA all right but there diffeent to MDMA pills in the 90s.

I wish someone would start doing some proper analysis on pills beyond just the contents. Look at the salts, look at the isomers, look at the impurities etc.

Something I found out recently if you change the salt of MDMA you can have many more possibilitie of isomer options. MDMA HCL has only two isomers but othr salts can have loads of isomers so in theory there could be 100s of different types of MDMA.
 
maybe. so what were the snowballs that i've read about? what techniques were being used by the large labs back then? i read the thing about the different types of salts. aside from speculation, what would be really logical for a large lab to use? i just read that the .hcl would be the most stable. is that right? wouldn't they do that then? if a large lab was making the mdma what synthesis route would they use? would they go strait from MDP2P from a lab and if so how would a real legal lab make it? how else would they do it on a large scale?
 
it's fun to theorize but isn't it more logical to assume that the people taking the drug have changed, not the drug itself?
 
maybe. so what were the snowballs that i've read about?
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Have a look through this lot. There are other test results but this will give you an idea of what was around then. The snowballs are the pills with no stamp.

what techniques were being used by the large labs back then?
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Piperonal was a more readily available precursor so may have had some influence? difficult to say.

i read the thing about the different types of salts. aside from speculation, what would be really logical for a large lab to use?
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Many argue HCL only. Other salts do exist but its very difficult to prove otherwise. Only have anecdotal data as proof. Ecstasydata basically suck.

i just read that the .hcl would be the most stable. is that right?
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HCL is very cavilier friendly ie you dont have to be so careful in its chemistry. That is the main reason its preferred. Its also non hydroscopic (wont attract water) compared to some of the other salts.

wouldn't they do that then? if a large lab was making the mdma what synthesis route would they use?
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Depends on many factors what kit is available, what precursors are available, what solvents are available, how quick they wanna be, how much they can afford to lose. Certain methods are often preferred but there are no hard and fast rules.

would they go strait from MDP2P from a lab
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If you can get MDP2P then yes you can jump from this to MDMA via one synth (I cant say how as that breaks the BL rules)

and if so how would a real legal lab make it?
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Sorry cant say.

how else would they do it on a large scale?
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There was a website once called the Hive that would have answered every question like this but unfortunately no more :D

The key to it all is a knowledge in Organic Chemistry. If you are interested to learn I can give you some links to some books that will help you. Understanding Bond Line Diagrams is a great way to start thats the hexagon type symbols that you often see when explaining different types of drugs.

it's fun to theorize but isn't it more logical to assume that the people taking the drug have changed, not the drug itself?
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We all change on a daily basis but I think certain pills are one buzz and certain pills are another buzz. The more you can understand the better. I just wish there was more test analysis above and beyond ecstasydata or streetworx.
 
futura2012 said:
We all change on a daily basis but I think certain pills are one buzz and certain pills are another buzz. The more you can understand the better. I just wish there was more test analysis above and beyond ecstasydata or streetworx.
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For this to be true though you would need to completely forget about set and setting.



Take LSD for example. I had a vial of VERY high quality LSD for a while, it was all the same batch, and I tried it a good 50+ times throughout 6+ months..... every single experience was completely different from the last. Some trips were extremely euphoric like MDMA, some were extremely visual, and some had me communicating with entities from other galaxies....


Now, MDMA isn't quite as psychedelic so it won't have the same variety of effects.. but I've tried MDMA from the same batch multiple times with widely different effects as well. Sometimes I'm floored the fuck out, sometimes I just can't help but dance all night. Sometimes it's an extremely introspective type of love for myself, and sometimes I can't help but tell the person I just met how much I love and care for them..... set and setting are extremely important man, as well as what other drugs you have been taking recently (tolerance) and even diet and how much sleep you get plays a large effect.


I don't think you're ever going to have two experiences that are exactly the same.




elr said:
it's fun to theorize but isn't it more logical to assume that the people taking the drug have changed, not the drug itself?
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Indeed. Sure, we all like to debate how MDMA production techniques might have changed since then, and sure it's probably had some effect.... but you really need to think of Occam's Razor in a situation like this, and what's the easiest way to explain this??

Downregulation would be the answer to that question... especially since we already KNOW it's happening, as 5-HT receptors downregulate naturally over time anyway.
 
For this to be true though you would need to completely forget about set and setting.
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Of course every setting / experience is different but certain pills are reliabley dancey, others are mongey others are trippy. Its all in the chemistry.

Comparing LSD to Ecstasy is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Downregulation would be the answer to that question... especially since we already KNOW it's happening, as 5-HT receptors downregulate naturally over time anyway.
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Its genuinely not just downregulation. I wish I had more experience of taking of recent but I definitely remember certain pills being awesome whilst others were either short lived or generally a poor buzz. Yes sure if I was with a hot girl willing to share experiences then yes this would enhance the experience some what but hot chick or no hot chick the real key is the chemistry in the pill hence this long and ongoing debate.

I wish we could find some more test data.
 
futura2012 said:
I wish I had more experience of taking of recent but I definitely remember certain pills being awesome whilst others were either short lived or generally a poor buzz.
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How do you know the pills that were short lived and you didn't like as much weren't MDE and not MDMA?


a chemical can't just change over the years.. maybe people make it differently, but it's still the same chemical.


7TSv6.png


That structure hasn't changed since 1912 ;)
 
futura2012 said:
Its genuinely not just downregulation. I wish I had more experience of taking of recent but I definitely remember certain pills being awesome whilst others were either short lived or generally a poor buzz. Yes sure if I was with a hot girl willing to share experiences then yes this would enhance the experience some what but hot chick or no hot chick the real key is the chemistry in the pill hence this long and ongoing debate.
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Yes, but I'm sure synthesis can play a strong factor in this sort of thing as well. Many impurtities are highly likely thus leaving us with a more than likely different high even if it is infact MDMA/MDA/MDE. Regardless, Folley in which makes a very valid point, of course the molecular structure of an atom is not going to change therefore the drug itself is not changing, but processes do change and this I believe can make all the more difference. Just like many users of Methamphetamine state that when not synthesis with Pseudoephedrine/ephedrine became more difficult to come by the high itself changed. But the molecule of the drug is not changing, yes? Otherwise it would still not be called methamphetamine anymore.

I feel different product will give different properties for example the debate against using safrole and other precursers in which one is truly superior to the other. But honestly, I feel not enough information is provided on this topic unfortunetly but only time will tell exactly what the answer to this long gone debate has left us with. Could very well be the fact that human bodies are ever changing, or due to synthesis and/or tolerance or the fact that less combos are used in ratios they were seen before, etc.
 
How do you know the pills that were short lived and you didn't like as much weren't MDE and not MDMA?
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I have taken about 450 pills in my life so have a fair bit of experience. You dont always know whats MDMA, MDEA etc but the purer ones you could always tell.

The raw chemical is the same but the body is very sensitive to other chemicals around it. A brown pile of sticky MDMA sludge vs white polished crystals theres gonna be a different buzz we know that.

When it comes to pills are we taking brown sludge MDMA or crystal white MDMA in reality we dont know. Even the marquis will only tell us the pill is MD** or not.

In terms of analysis this is pretty limited. In reality pills are different and it would seem for some reason pils in the 90s had a more sustaining and heavier buzz.

Why? likely cuts but, synth techniques will also come into play. I am sure now the MDMA manufacture methods are very well ironed out.

Looking at all the illegal labs many of the techniques we see are very similiar. Usually distilled safrole, some kind of reduction, seperation, gassing and filtering.

In the 90s a lot of piperonal was around what synth that produced I am not sure but that will have likely made a difference to impurities hanging around.

I suspect impurities are a big part to play in this puzzle as many of them are active also.
 
Yes, impurities for sure. I've got a wide range of pills and MDMA powder now....and I'm beginning to see the difference.

MDMA powder crystals are generally super super clean. No comedown to speak of.
Dutch pills seem to be much cleaner than UK pressed. Again no comedown really.
UK bulk pressed pills such as Rockstars etc are definitely dirty as hell with impurities.

Still say MDEA is the main component missing. From my research this was the combo I seemed to have MDMA/MDEA. That 'smacked up on heroin' feeling in every 20 minutes then woosh dancing again.
 
MDMA has been made the same way for 30 or more years. The molecule hasn't changed. Your serotonin system has.
 
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