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    Empathogenic
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How we rolled in the 90s when the pills were super strong

It's all about MDA and other amphetamines mixed in, not to mention "raving" in the 90s was underground so everyone was on some sort of drug other than alcohol. Today I go to even massive raves and a decent number aren't rolling. When I used to hang out with some older kids in the 90s I know the week after a rave they would look completely haggard, eat like shit and be zombies, which to me is reminiscent of lots of MDA. Pure MDMA isn't all that great for dancing, because when you get the dose high enough for all the empathy the world slows down and standing gets uncomfortable.
 
dmugger said:
It's all about MDA and other amphetamines mixed in, not to mention "raving" in the 90s was underground so everyone was on some sort of drug other than alcohol. Today I go to even massive raves and a decent number aren't rolling. When I used to hang out with some older kids in the 90s I know the week after a rave they would look completely haggard, eat like shit and be zombies, which to me is reminiscent of lots of MDA. Pure MDMA isn't all that great for dancing, because when you get the dose high enough for all the empathy the world slows down and standing gets uncomfortable.
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I really do wonder if MDA / MDMA combos were in those early 90s doves. I do know there was a LOT more amphet in them. Now, towards the end of the night I am crashing right out...maybe by the 3rd pill I have got my eyes almost closed. Never with the old skool pills.
 
MDA is something else. Incredibly trippy. I had those mickey mice pills a few years ago which were MDA. Woke up the morning after and I'd put my t.v under my bed and thrown all my clothes out my window
 
One thing I don't get I used to get with the old pills - I'd go to bed, and the music would still be thumpin in my head. Now, no. The music is gone.
 
^ Really? Must be your sources. Still thumps for me, even into the next day sometimes...

I wanted to note:

In relation to racemic MDMA levo/dextro combo, I've seen a few people say stuff like "chemists would not take time to separate the isomers", but seriously, how true is that? Most all levo isomers are practically inactive, and even legal in some instances like levomethampetamine - found in the non-Canadian vicks vapor inhalers. So again, why would not a chemist with proper lab equipment take time to isolate the active enantiomer? If you think about it, that would make their MDMA more pure, active at a much lower dose, and regardless of whether it seems like a "waste of time, $, and resources", if their MDMA suddenly feels cleaner and doubles potency, why not isolate the enantiomers, if you have the right equipment and proper chemistry knowledge?
 
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It can be seen that every tablet contained Ca, Na and Mg in high concentrations.
This is very probably due to sulphate and phosphate salts that are
commonly used in the manufacture of tablets.
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Very interesting article there my friend. Nicely steers this thread back to a science chat.

I am also very interested by the comment above in this article.

Seems every time pills have forensic analysis above and beyond edata etc then alternative salt types are discovered.

A lot of them have lactose as a cut.

Some of the impurities found in the pills:

3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenyl-2-propanone
3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenyl-2-propanol
N-formyl-MDEA
N-acetyl-MDEA
Di-[1-(3,4-methylenedioxy)phenyl-2-propyl]amine

Lets hope transformer takes a peak at this lot. Would be great to see if he reckons any of this lot might be CNS active and contribute to a buzz.

It was determined that the tablet 88 contained three times more fatty acids than tablet 47 indicating that the tablets were probably not manufactured in the same way.

a similar analysis was performed to detect the fatty acids and
their relative concentration in the two tablets (results not shown here). It
was determined that the tablet 88 contained three times more fatty acids

More often found were Zn, Fe, B, Cr, Cu, Ti, Al and I. The presence of Zn,
B, Al and Ti could be explained by the fact that they are used in the manufacture
of tablets. Zinc and aluminium stearates as well as boric acid are lubri-
The analysis of Ecstasy tablets by ICP/MS and ICP/AES 141
cants and titanium oxide is used as a “whitener”.

This is something we havent considered as a possible buzz hit. These elements reported in pills.

Would be great if we could get a chime from Transformer, Vader, phase_dancer and the like.
 
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I absolutely agree with you. Back then one 20$ pill was the most incredible experience worth much much more than 20 dollars in my opinion. It was like youre entire brain was orgasaming for hours. I would sometimes find a place to sit and meditate and all of the most possitive and love filled answers and conclusions to every thought I had was overwhelmingly blissful and perfect. P.L.U.R. ...........However. I haven't rolled like that in yeeears. and have come to the same conclusion that it's a different kind of pill now. what do the mints look like?
 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/510655-mint-appreciation-thead

Some picks there. This backs up my initial theory which is buried in this thread.

In the early 90s, there were only a handful of labs supplying the whole of Europe. Mr Ecstasy as he was known supplied most of the pills - Doves in particular - straight out of Holland. With such a small amount of labs and an organised crime network the quality of pills was high.

I see a similar thing with Chinatown mints - they seem to be made by organised criminals - with a long term view will produce a better product and brand it properly - they'll hope to sell these things for a long time to come and build a rep. Another lab who is small ball, may make a bunch of pills, sell them then take a holiday.

I also see high quality pills coming into Northern Ireland from Holland - evidently the organised crime is well know to be controlled by 1 syndicate. And as a result, they decided to bring in quality product and not just try to make a fast buck - they again have a longterm view.
 
Chinatown mints
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Lol, that's Chi-Town Mints... Chi-town is Chicago, not China ;)


The mints are a great press though. The presser is obviously a very smart and benevolent person.. all the mint presses are math symbols (plus, minus, equal, therefore sign (∴) ), and the synth seems to be pretty damn old school. Something different from what the rest are using.

Mints have also been rumored to contain MDA, but that's never been substantiated, and all mints that have been tested show up as MDMA:1
 
mark881 said:
One thing I don't get I used to get with the old pills - I'd go to bed, and the music would still be thumpin in my head. Now, no. The music is gone.
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The music's always with me long after :)

Futura - thanks for sharing those write-ups, they were a wonderful read.
 
futura2012 said:
Just found this funny 80s / 90s acid house video

Check out the dancing its classic :D

http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist//ITN/1988/10/04/AS041088004/?s=lsd&st=0&pn=1
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Absolute quality find. You Yank ravers and those younger than 30 should watch this because this IS how it started. circa 1989.

You will also notice how 'energetic' all the clubbers are - something missing from todays scene.

I like what Benson7 said and linked to the Swiss drug report - a combo of MDA, MDMA and MDE and amphet. Sure salts and isomers can be changed but probably the pills of today are a combo of MDA/MDMA/MDE/Amphet and getting them in the right mix creates a different type of pill.

I have still to try MDMA powder, but I am assuming if it is pure, this will be my first utterly pure MDMA hit.
 
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I am going to summarise things to date on this thread...by no means is the discussion over...but here goes

- circa 90-95 pills in the UK and Europe were incredibly strong. I think we've seen videos from the 90s and people are bouncing off their heads way harder than any club I go to now. There is no disputing this whatsoever and has zero to do with bashed in serotonin receptors of old skool ravers who can't regain the buzz. The pills I refer to are Disco Biscuits, Doves, Super-Doves, Dennis The Menace, Squares and Snowballs from early 90s.

- it appears a big difference with even the super pills from Holland as the Qdances and Defcons, is duration is reduced to 2hours max. Most pills seem to give me 75-90mins right on the button then fizzle out fast as anything, like a switch being flicked. I am used to 3-4 hour duration from old skool pills and it seems that MDA gives longer duration (correct me if wrong). By this, I presume MDA content in new pills is less or none of current pills. This makes perfect business sense. As we cannot move the price of a pill from around 10euros/£10 any higher, our next move is to make sure the duration of the pill is shorter so we do 2-3 pills. So now I will do 3 pills but back in the 90s I would do 1/2 pill or 1 pill max. One big difference 1993 vs 2012 is that people will do multiple pills in a night today, whereas 1 pill did the trick circa 90s.

- amphetamine is less in new skool pills vs old skool. This could be the abscence of MDA or just a reduction in amphet. I know the amphet contents vary a little with the new pills, but it's nothing compared to the early 90s euro pills. Upside - well we're not as trashed. Downside - we don't dance as hard = less endorphins and also it's a lot harder to get it up on the new pills vs 90s pills

- isomers and salts can be affected. As can purification process. This may as an outside chance, make a difference to the effect of many ecstasy pills. I can say out of the current pills, every pill is unique. If they were pure MDMA, then they would all be the same. But they are not.


Conclusion - it appears the old skool pills ARE much stronger, and as pills in general contain a mix of MDE, MDA and MDMA, I am considering that the old skool pills had large amounts of MDA at the least. On one hand I miss old skool pills because they consumed you so hard that you tripped out into the most amazing experience of your life, but on the other hand I had pains in my chest (I presume heart muscle and others had this also) and I could barely do anything for the next 6 days.

Keep discussing people!
 
mark881 said:
There is no disputing this whatsoever and has zero to do with bashed in serotonin receptors of old skool ravers who can't regain the buzz.
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Um, this whole thread is disputing that :|


ZERO to do with diminished serotonin levels? Get real dude. MDMA use causes down regulation. If you keep using Defqons for weeks on end like you did in the 90s, I'm sure they would seem relatively shitty 10 years later as well. Down-regulation is VERY real, and to think that you've been able to go 10 or 20 years without getting it at all.... well, you've got to be deaf, dumb and blind.

Add down-regulation onto the fact that pills are mostly MDMA only instead of a mix MDMA, MDA, MDE and amphetamine, and you've got your reason.



Also, I wouldn't agree that pills are lower dosed now. Just the opposite in fact, now we've got "Super Pills" with 200mg-250mg in them.... the olden pills had like 120-150, and those were the highest dosed ones
 
I didn't do too many pills and had a 15 year break so my serotonin is a-ok (I think!)...but I would say that todays pills are probably more MDMA and less MDA/amphet based. Am I right in saying MDA lasts longer than MDMA?

I have yet to try the Yellow Rockstars just out, but clubbing friends who do 100+ pills per year say they are magic with re-dosing bringing you right up rather than just topping you up....in which case these are a better quality pill maybe closer to early 90s euro pills but with less amphet. I have yet to try them....

I am guessing I prefer MDMA/MDA+amphet mix pills then I guess, maybe with some MDE chucked in for added effect :)
 
^ Not all pills have amphetamine dude... in fact, most of the good pills in Europe have no trace of anything other than MDMA these days..


I'd sure bet that a MDMA + MDA + MDE + Amphetamine pill would be better than a MDMA only pill!! That doesn't mean if you took a pill with the same contents these days that you wouldn't get to the same place... unless you've fried your serotonin, that is.
 
^wrong...mark is right...if i had bashed serotonin receptors, I'd be having sypmtoms of bashed serotonin receptors which I and other older rollers are not
 
georgewc2001 said:
I'd be having sypmtoms of bashed serotonin receptors which I and other older rollers are not
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Says who? You? How do you know you haven't just gotten used to having diminished serotonin receptors and that seems "normal" for you?

You can't, is the answer. Serotonin down-regulates itself NATURALLY, without MDMA, anyways... so trying to say that serotonin plays no part in this is just denying facts. Now, I don't think that's the ONLY reason, but I think it's a large contributor to this "phenomena"
 
I still get really nice afterglows and zero comedown if I space 30 days, so I think my receptors are fine.

True, as we get older our serotonin goes south. And starting with high serotonin + MDMA means a better high. I think this is marginal in the scheme of things.

But back to the old skool pills - they defo had more amphet. Or maybe the MDA made us burn brighter and longer. This in turn made you dance more quickly and for longer....resulting in soaking jeans and t shirt and massive release of endorphin release. I used to spend the rest of the weekend smoking low grade morrocan, only it felt like the finest shit after this extreme 'exercise' night out.
 
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