• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
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How we rolled in the 90s when the pills were super strong

This is the tecnique used for seperation of + & - Isomers.

looks very simple to me. Loss is minimal

I have listed this as a seperate post incase it infringes site rules so easy for moderator to delete if required.

I dont think this against the rules as its not an actual synthesis but if it is I am sorry and feel free to delete.

The reason for this post is its just very relevant to the actual topic. I hope it passes.


2,00 g (10mmol, assuming 95% purity in the Islands) distilled MDMA
0.75 g (5mmol) D-tartaric acid
3ml H2O
6ml xylene (which turned out to be handy)
A solution of NaOH, equivalent to 0.2 g (5mmol) NaOH.
! Not use solid NaOH! Only solution! Hard has a different concentration of active ingredient and water, that a very strong impact on the results of separation: if the D-isomer is allocated fairly well, but a net L-isomer is unlikely to succeed. The easiest way to prepare the solution - dissolve a handful of alkali in the glass Dist. water, cooled to room temperature, weighed in a volumetric flask, calculate the density and concentration. Well or titrirovat - who like more.
And then weigh the required amount of solution.

After mixing the reagents, a lot of shake up and leave for a day. Xylene solution of L-MDMA separate, additional water rinse xylene. To add the excess xylene halophytes and leave to evaporate, first in the air to the evaporation of xylene, and then in a desiccator over NaOH. Obtain 1,05 g caramels. Rub the several times with acetone, ignoring the losses and obtain 0,6 g R (-) MDMA (L-MDMA).
An aqueous solution of D-MDMA alkalizes twice ekstragiruem, add soup and dried. Obtain 1,1 g of crystalline S (+) MDMA (D-MDMA).
 
^ Oh, cheers Einstein.

Well of coarse you guys had better pill experiences in the 90's you had NO tolerance to pills it was your first times.

End of stupid discussion.
 
Threads don't carry on as long as this one unless it has valid substance to it. Try reading through the whole thing before beginning your next "Start of stupid comment."
 
Interesting that although the pills in the netherlands section of pillreports are high dose pills, they're by and large not mixed. The pills in the 90s were mixed mdma/mda/amp, which made them strong as fuck.
 
For me this a really interesting topic so sorry for the long posts.

I dont wish to offend anyone.

I am not claiming to have the answer or understand everything in this info just trying to find extracts of research that might explain a bit more.

If you do read through everything as blah blah suggests its for sure filled with hot debate.

Georgewc your right about what you say.

"pills in the netherlands section of pillreports are high dose pills, they're by and large not mixed"

My question would then be:

Why do all the Defqons/Speakers and Triforces have nothing other than high MDMA content yet users report a clearly different buzz.

It seems there all from the same lab likely from Holland.

But also there strong as fuck like the 90s pills being strong as fuck.

Do you think we can say that certain types of MDMA feel different even though the content is MDMA and nothing else?

Is the isomer theory a possible explaination? It seems that for most clan labs seperating isomers is not a practical or realistic solution. Or is it?

Could it be impurities in the synth method but then how is this possible using the Defqon/Speakers and Triforces idea surely they all share the same synth method dont they?

Many users in this thread report actual pure MDMA feeling different could the different synth routes be an explaination? Could the primary precursors be an explaination? Piperonal (a 90s favourite), Safrol, Newer precursors such as helional, other essential oils? Again its an unlikely theory but its a possibility. Without doubt certain synth routes do produce other CNS acting agents such as MDA.

Could it be that just the process of necking a different style of pill say a speaker or defqon have some kind of placebo effect ie a perceived type of buzz. An unlikely theory as so many people report the same thing.

The pills in the 90s definitely had some other acting agents in them such as MDEA, MDA, Amphetamine and the combination definitely made a "balls to the wall" experience thats for sure.

but..

Now I have thought about it a bit more I think there is something in the idea certain MDMA has felt different.

Was the MDMA a different buzz in the 90s??
 
futura2012 said:
For me this a really interesting topic so sorry for the long posts.

I dont wish to offend anyone.

I am not claiming to have the answer or understand everything in this info just trying to find extracts of research that might explain a bit more.

If you do read through everything as blah blah suggests its for sure filled with hot debate.

Georgewc your right about what you say.

"pills in the netherlands section of pillreports are high dose pills, they're by and large not mixed"

My question would then be:

Why do all the Defqons/Speakers and Triforces have nothing other than high MDMA content yet users report a clearly different buzz.

It seems there all from the same lab likely from Holland.

But also there strong as fuck like the 90s pills being strong as fuck.

Do you think we can say that certain types of MDMA feel different even though the content is MDMA and nothing else?

Is the isomer theory a possible explaination? It seems that for most clan labs seperating isomers is not a practical or realistic solution. Or is it?

Could it be impurities in the synth method but then how is this possible using the Defqon/Speakers and Triforces idea surely they all share the same synth method dont they?

Many users in this thread report actual pure MDMA feeling different could the different synth routes be an explaination? Could the primary precursors be an explaination? Piperonal (a 90s favourite), Safrol, Newer precursors such as helional, other essential oils? Again its an unlikely theory but its a possibility. Without doubt certain synth routes do produce other CNS acting agents such as MDA.

Could it be that just the process of necking a different style of pill say a speaker or defqon have some kind of placebo effect ie a perceived type of buzz. An unlikely theory as so many people report the same thing.

The pills in the 90s definitely had some other acting agents in them such as MDEA, MDA, Amphetamine and the combination definitely made a "balls to the wall" experience thats for sure.

but..

Now I have thought about it a bit more I think there is something in the idea certain MDMA has felt different.

Was the MDMA a different buzz in the 90s??
Click to expand...

@futura.. excellent research work in the past few posts... glad to see you have gotten the bug about this topic as well... i am more convinced than ever that something is different but as a scientist i have to concede to the practical possibilities rather than gut instinct as much as i would like... your last couple of posts would seem to put to rest my theory that a specific synthesis route would produce a racemic mixture other than 50-50 so that only leaves us with intentional selection... it is very interesting that you found evidence that this is at least *practically* possible... i myself question whether any clandestine operation would actually do this though... i really wonder if the difference was an MDA/ MDEA combo with MDMA rather than the mostly MDMA pills we have now...

oh and add another one to our list as well.. i have a good friend; a girl that used to rave alot when she was 15-16 (so this would be back in 1999-2000) then stopped from 2000 till this year and started rolling again on an occasional basis... and she came to me asking the same questions... why have all her recent experiences resulted in a couchlocked experience rather than all night energetic loved up dancing... and i told her about our little (big) discussion here.... just waaayyy too many people saying the same thing....
 
Hello lastclubkid

Your right theres too many people saying the same thing for this concept to be unfounded.

One other thing to add.

People report the defqon pill to be really dancey. I was looking at pill reports again and noticed the reverse of the pill!

"DANCE" printed on the back. None of the others have that wording

When you look at these pills the Defqon, speaker, triforce, q dance the quality of press is something else. On the q dance the perferation has both rouded edges also a bevelled edge round the edge of the pill. The logo is an out print rather than an inprint.
The press is shiny and smooth.

They are total perfection. Clearly not some back street operation.

I wonder if the same effort went into the synthesis and ingriedents of the pills. Probably likely.

The labs report 165mG MDMA for defqon..

Why so dancey? Clearly the manufacturer of defqon knows the secret. They even printed "DANCE" on them.

They certainly arent the couch locked experience your friend describes from other MDMA.

There different to the chilled euphoric feeling I sometimes get from MDMA powder but they are confirmed MDMA.

Whats the difference?

At first I thought this theory was myth. MDMA is MDMA right?
 
watching those videos from the 1990's i'm increasingly convinced by the MDA argument

took MDA & MDMA combo the other day and was energetic, dancing for 7+ hours but with all the empathy
 
i had thought (when i was younger) that these really popular "fly" pills had mescaline in them lol ohh to be back in high school. anyways, turned out to be a high dose mda/mdma pill, blew me away. super up and dancey but totally floored as well. the first time i rolled they were called red devils and they were tiny red scored red blanks and they were really dancey and loved up too, purported MDMA only. the one time i had a really couchlock experience was when it was an mdea pill. kinda dissapointing didnt last long but was still kinda fun.

I think a lot of it has to do with setting, frame of mind at the time of experience and afterwards and basically how your mind stores the image of that particular experience. i remember back when a dxm pill was all you had to worry about, if you had a test kit you were money.
 
@futura...you make a lot of great points and raise a lot of good questions which really have me thinking so I'll try to answer as best i can...

mdma is not mdma as so many have said on here...i know this makes no sense and is counterintuitive but experience after experience for years has proven this true

different pills which test for mdma and only mdma feel different so there's something going on...im not a chemist with mdma production experience but here's my opinion:

1. quality of the mdma which includes production process/method/ingredients
2. concentration (very important) of mdma

number 2 is huge because it affects the rate at which the mdma hits the brain, which we all know from other drugs as well makes a HUGE difference in the effects. try swallowing an oxycontin pill...then snort one...WAY different. better yet, try snorting a 30mg oxy...then snort 30mg of an 80mg pill...WAY differnt. i'm not advocating oxy use here...its the devil but its one way i can illustrate what i'm trying to say. another could be meth vs crystal meth. i'm not a meth user...never have been hate the stuff BUT love a touch of amp with my mdma...interesting.

anyway, sorry like i said my mind is all over the place on this issue, but perhaps a more easy to relate to example for people would be alcohol...

is this true? alcohol is alcohol

i think not...try different types of liquor with same proof...they produce different levels and types of drunk. now i know theres other factors at play here like whats added to the alcohol and the distillation process but i'm trying to draw a parallel here as to perhaps what goes on with the mdma production process and how it affects the body.

regarding hollands pills, i find that the reports on pills like for example the defqons or recently the ferraris are pretty consistent with what id expect from a 90s level pill...ie puking/jaw shaking/eyes rolling like mtf...FROM ONE PILL...that's the key. here is the indication that the concentration and quality is such that the mdma is flooding the brain fast enough to produce this intesity level of high, which has not been the case for pills here in nyc for some time.

as far as the dancing vs puddle in the corner effects...this has always been an issue of mdma which can be determined by the user. i remember when i first started rolling, my friend would tell me to keep dancing (and stay up) to keep my energy up so i didn't wind up in a puddle in the corner all night. this is why pills with mda and amp were so prefered because then there was no need to put the effort into staying "up."

the question when buying the pills was always "are they speedy or dopey?" and this wasn't cause pills were laced with dope contrary to popular belief. its just some pills had a more energetic feel either due to amp, mda or perhaps what you (futura) are refering to in your articles as the more speedy of the non-ramemic mdmas.

HOWEVER, in the 90s, whether the pill was speedy or dopey, it was strong as hell...the intensity was always there. this intensity is lacking by and large today. i am now on a mission to get to holland to try some of these pills asap. once this happens i'll be able to shed some first hand experience on 90s pills vs hollands superbombs of today. in the meantime, i wish the man himself Strike could chime in on this topic as i'm sure he'd have facinating input. i do know from reading that he was somewhat of a proponent of mda over mdma as i am so again the abundance of mixed pills as well as mda pills in addition to mdma pills in the 90s could be the answer.

sorry for the long post...bottom line i think is that with the exception of the producers of the triforces/defqons/speakers/etc. and perhaps some other small operations in the world (ie mint man in chitown), the quality of production is not what it used to be....for whatever the reason may be

@medicine cabinet...i remember that damn dxm cutting period...one of my friends collapsed at a big party from those fuckin things but i think id still take that over a fuckin pipe. also remember the major meth cutting period...think that was the worst...even worse than pipes cause you'd roll and be flying from the meth but then come down and be awake FOREVER cracked out feeling like shit
 
Hello GeorgeWC / Medicine Cabinet /Mr Sosa / Last Club kid

Good points.

I think Hobart Houson AKA "Strike" is well out the slammer now so might well be back out there somewhere. Some how I think this time he might keep a low profile however..

Did you see that Dateline Investigation about him on youtube. Awesome story. A complete two fingers up to the entire world. Good whilst it lasted. His website the Hive was also a lot of fun with the biggest gang of nutters on there ever. majority of them in the slammer now at least the active Bees. That might be why the pills in the States went soo bad since the hive died . I hear pokeballs are still good if you get the non fake ones.

I dont think the Research Chemical scene has helped the USA scene either. Seems all to easy to press up RCs over there rather than risk massive prison sentance for importing pills from Europe.

the way you describe "to keep my energy up so i didn't wind up in a puddle in the corner all night" is how I describe my experiences on MDMA powder.

It was nice dont get me wrong but doesnt have that same power as some of the good pills had.

The most memorable for me in the 90s was a "Triangular Mitsibushi" and also the "Versace / Medusa". I think the Triangular Mitsi was an MDEA/MDMA combo and the Versace was an MDMA/MDA 50/50 combo kinda trippy but totally off the hook.

When I was taking pills last year I had a non branded red pill from a reliable friend. They sell for £10 rather than the usual 3 for a tenner and this was the same. Like a roller coaster ride. It felt like MDMA but just really strong with energy and force. Like you say the intensity was different to the powder. You didnt want to sit down and talk shit to some chick it was get up and dance.

If you get a good one now (a challenge I know) there not 90s pills, not so messy, there clean but they sure pack a punch. I dont have first hand experience of a defqon but looking at the reports they seem similiar to the one I had last year. It was called a hi-bred MDMA pill. What the fuck that meant I dont know but it was good for sure. I was happy to pay the premium it was worth it.

Theres something were missing im sure. Might be synth related. What makes those MDMA pills have so much energy?

I think your right quality of synth and concentration in pill does make a difference but does that explain the huge energy one gets from these tested MDMA pills I just dont know I wish I did....

The myth continues LOL
 
FFS, I never knew the thread I started would be so epic.

Summary

- seems R isomer ecstasy is superior. Quite possibly we had some in the 90s, without samples we won't know.
- there was more amphet and to balance, a little more MDMA in old 90s pills
- the new pills are not as overwhelming, but they are no where near as hard on the body.
- there is a lack of the loved up vibe and empathy of the olds pills, this I clearly see when we are out clubbing. 90s, much more huggin 'alright dude' and so forth, smiling. Now a lot more people are just monged face dancing away at 1/2 the speed of the 90s.

As for tolerance etc, I say BS. I took a 15 yr break and the pill was good, but it didn't compare to 90s. Meanwhile in the 90s, we could take pills every week for consecutive periods and not lose the magic. The only difference would be you would be more comfortable with the come up and also look forward to the buzz all week.
 
Truth right there. I remember the whole week before a roll back then I could barely contain the nervous excitement and butterflies in my gut. It was how intense it was then that did it. I've been taking major breaks from rolling the last 5 months and supplementing big time with piracetam and such just to see if any of it will make a difference for my next roll the end of September. I'd kill for the knowing that each and every roll now would be just as immaculate as every single roll was then.

Don't get me wrong, rolling nowadays is still a fantastic time, its just missing the extremely intense "umph" of love we grew to know everytime then.
 
I have some more interesting research and a theory not currently discussed in this thread.


Why can a pill contain MDMA only but some can be rushey, some mellow, some dancey. ie defqons/speakers/triforce etc. This is confirmed by user reports and lab reports. It is not speculation.

Many have confirmed some MDMA only pills are just different.

And all these pills discussed contain only one active ingridient MDMA. HOW & WHY???



I was looking at a thread on bluelight where people were discussing the theoretical concept of MDMA purity.

MDMA is it 84% pure or 100% pure?

Quote from Vader bluelight that summarises the cause of debate.

The number refers to the proportion of the sample constituted by MDMA molecules. In MDMA HCl, there is one molecule of HCl (with a relative mass of 36.5) for every molecule of MDMA (with a relative mass of 193.25), and so if the salt is totally pure, 84% of it is MDMA.

The debate is formed around the idea that when MDMA is in a liquid form (MDMA Freebase) (which you cannot drink) it needs to be mixed with an acid to form a bond thus forming into a salt. In the case of MDMA it is usually Hydrochloride or better known as MDMA HCL.

Thus with the salt molecule its not pure right? The argument is academic really and not the point in here BUT it got me thinking....

I thought more about george WCs comments about Concentration. I then looked more into the Freebase of MDMA.



MDMA in its basic form (Freebase) (Definition below)

The natural form of a drug, hasn't been reacted with an acid.
You can change it back and forth between its freebase and salt form as many times as you want.


Now I have been reading some discussions on a Bee (synth) site where there are discussions about MDMA and it doesnt have to be HCL!!

Hydrochloride
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloride

It could take some other forms very easily by just bonding with the relevant acid:

Tartrate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartrate

Phosphate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphate

Citrate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrate

Sulfate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate



I picked up this comment from a Bee it was a theoretical discussion:

-Tartrates:are known on some underground sites as "twice as potent" than mda hcl salts,because that great absortion potencial by body...but seems nobody talk about that.

comment on a sciencemadness site

It more then likely boils down to physical properties of the various salts. In some cases the HCl salt is hygroscopic so some pharmacuticals opt for the sulfate salt. Other times it boils down to absorbtion. Take for instance the illegal compound MDMA whos citrate salt manages to get degraded in a different part of the gut then the HCl salt allowing for more complete absorbtion into the body before it is metabolised.



So based on previous discussions I think we all agree that seperating out isomers (although very possible) is not practical, you will lose some product, you then according to shulgin dont have the magic, to make the magic so you would have to mix it with some racemic MDMA. A total pain in the ass no clan lab will do this.

BUT..

To make different salts of MDMA. This is very possible. All you do at the point of freebase is bond the particular acid for the salt required.

Very easy to select a certain buzz for a certain batch. No extra hassle only a different acid required.

My other thought is MDMA HCl is the desired salt for Molly powder. probably because the crystals look nice and its easy to handle. But this could explain why crystal HCl is always so mellow.

if you make a sulphate, or a citrate or a phosphate it might not look so nice but if its going into a pill mix who cares.

Just a thought but a very likely possibility.

Unfortunately theres not a lot of info out there about it but based on government confiscation reports etc other salt forms certainly exist. The concept is real.

Theoretically if you had some MDMA powder it would not be very difficult to turn the MDMA back into a freebase and then turn it into a different salt. Someone with very basic chemistry understanding could perform this task.

I cannot find any reports anywhere about the different effects of the different salts. Perhaps this is the secret we have been searching for??

Any comments or extra thoughts massively appreciated.






Evidence of these other salts actually existing:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14640267

The finding of the phosphate salt of MDMA is intriguing. Based on a presumptive color test, spectroscopic data (FTIR/ESI-MS) and the percentage of MDMA content in a purified phosphate salt of MDMA, the ratio of the phosphate to MDMA was determined to be 1:1, suggesting that the compound is a dihydrogen phosphate salt [i.e. (HMDMA)H2PO4].

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/mdma

The most common salt is the hydrochloride (CAS-64057-70-1) which occurs as a white or off-white powder or as crystals soluble in water. The phosphate salt is also encountered. Illicit products are seen principally as white tablets with a characteristic impression (logo), less commonly as white powders or capsules. MDMA base is a colourless oil insoluble in water.


http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~Smconnell/MDMA pill profiling.pdf

This extract shows a phosphate based pill in their samples. Not for the light hearted but loads of info about pills generally.




Further interesting research extracts info below:

the thing that i find interesting to read about is the possibility of changing the absorption rate by using different salt forms, the purpose being to increase mdma's peak to something similar to mda's peak. this is very interesting to read because then perhaps instead of double/tripling the initial dose (to reach those more intense/longer peaks) or re-upping later on (to extend the peak), perhaps one could dose their regular dose of mdma hcl but also mix in a specifically selected salt form that will take much longer for your body to absorb it. say your normal dose of mdma hcl plus another dose or half dose of mdma sulfate or some such. that way the mdma hcl hits immediately and provides the experience, then throughout the experience the secondary salt form is slowly ingested throughout the mdma hcl experience effectively given a more intense experience (although certainly not as intense as just dropping a whole lot of mdma, but again the purpose being to provide a ~8 hour mdma experience would be preferable) and longer peak... all the while ingesting a little less, say 200mg (100mg hcl, 100mg other salt) instead of 400mg etc to reach a similar effect.


method for MDMA citrate (Its possible!)

1 mole of mdma reacts with 1/2 mole of citric acid mdma(II)citrate.
mdma ethanol stoichiometric citric acid and diethyl ether work the best the problem with mdma citrate is it tends to suck up water and it's hard to crystallize it turns gummy.
so mix the mdma with alcohol and citric acid then take the alcohol off under vacum and dry it under vacum/heat to a constant weight.
then, procedd to recrystallize.
azetropic distillation should also work .
petro ether works as a nonpolar recrystallization solvent also.
i don't know how i knew that, a little bird told me.


"There're alot of drugs when put into a different salt form are metabolized quicker crossing blood brain barriers. Kinda like what the diactyl on morphine does to your brain. "
 
Brilliant futura. Now this is sounding much closer to the truth. We always have talked about needing ONLY 2 pills for a whole night of rolling back then. I mean drop at 9pm, peak harder and more consistently intense than anything now days until around 2am when you dropped the second and remained dicked at such an incredible peak till 6am.

Even the dutch superbombs now don't have the stamina to hold that high of a peak for anywhere near that long at that level of intensity. Who knows, maybe back then the competition was all about who could produce the better roll through blending different synths or salts, rather than like the dutch have going on now at who can make the highest quantity MDMA pill. Quality over quantity. A state of mind that all of us yanks know all too well has gone to shit in pill production and may be the explanation here.
 
Last edited:
Hello blah blah

Cheers for the comments.

I dont envy you guys in the states with the pills over there. pills for sure now are definitely different they just seem way more mass produced. Certainly different for sure. Perhaps your right maybe the attitude of the average chemist has changed maybe things are just more commercialised now. Still seems weird they dont make these MDA, MDEA, MDMA coctails. Im sure people would still like them.

Picking up on your previous comment:

"Don't get me wrong, rolling nowadays is still a fantastic time, its just missing the extremely intense "umph" of love we grew to know everytime then"

This is spot on. So true..

Its a complex topic for sure hence the length of this discussion.

A fascinating thread started by mark881. What a great topic! something that throughout my life has always fascinated me.



Also to add to my findings I picked up on a thread at one of the synth sites discussing "dirty MDMA". Some of this info seems to confirm what everyone has been saying in this thread. MD-P2P is not psychoactive but it seems the less the product is cleaned it has an effect on the overall MDMA experience also.

Seems the nasty brown stuff is preferred to the clean white.


Heres quotes from some underground chemists:

"I told you i actually worked up the brown stuff from the acetone washes, its hell potent and it is a different feeling.. the brown stuff hits you more 'broadly' for lack of a better word.. like it envelopes you or immerses you in the feeling.

the clean big crystals are still potent but lack something the dirty stuff had.. so yes something is happening here and what may look dirty is the better stuff.

this is why street X varies so much in effects.. it is all how it was made. i know that different rxns and work ups make different product its just how it is.. "

"i get lazy and leave molly dirty as hell, sometimes i even prefer it. don't know why.but the real motivator is production vs. time. it's a a pain in the ass to recrystalize some salts and you get losses and when your on a schedule you skip those steps."

"dirty MDMA is better than recrystalised MDMA. From experience, the clean big crystals are not as potent as the simple dirty mdma made from the ol home lab.

recrystalize is a bad idea, and the acetone washes, try evaporating, then ipa with some heat and get whatever brown goo remains that shit will be mega potent"
 
futura2012 said:
Hello blah blah

"i get lazy and leave molly dirty as hell, sometimes i even prefer it. don't know why.but the real motivator is production vs. time. it's a a pain in the ass to recrystalize some salts and you get losses and when your on a schedule you skip those steps."

"dirty MDMA is better than recrystalised MDMA. From experience, the clean big crystals are not as potent as the simple dirty mdma made from the ol home lab.
Click to expand...

The Pink Diamond pills were clean as a whistle, super super clean remember the whole night, vision super clarity - coming off them I remember coming out the club saying to the gang, wish I had my car, I could honestly drive no problem.

I am guessing this is someone making clean crystals.

I have Green Squares - these are the closest thing to the 90s pill in feeling, but it lacks a bit of the loved up empathy. The vision, comeup and trip is comparable but not as strong, maybe 50% as strong. But the 1/2 life is ridiculous. 75-90mins then wham it's over. I did 1.5 pills and I thought it was just a bit too much at one point, felt fcked up just for 15mins, but the most I got out of that trip was 2 hours. Old school pills min.4hours banging, maybe longer. My friend got a pill at Tiesto in Rotterdam and he said it was super clean and it kept him up for 12 hours.

There is a huge difference - MDMA must have some sort of quality range then there's the ratio of amphet. Just like everything else, there is going to some difference in quality I guess. I can go to one McDs and it's not as good as another McDs - why? A Big Mac is a big mac! But the dude making it varies the quality.
 
futarama, mark and blah...all great points...finally some making sense here...earlier in the thread I was arguing with people who hadn't actually ever tried a 90s pill and it was extremely frustrating cause they just couldn't grasp the magnitude of difference i was trying to get at between pills today vs 90s pills. It is ENORMOUS. Now i'm sure the holland super bombs are up there, but by and large there is just no comparison and i think futurama's info is getting towards clear evidence of what i was describing on the concentration/absorption issue. That's the best way I can describe it. And, as far as the dirty molly goes, one word...moon rocks. Everybody LOVES moonrocks which have a purpleish/brownish tint....hmmm

Also, someone made a very important point, the competition back then between pill makers was very intense.
 
georgewc2001 said:
Also, someone made a very important point, the competition back then between pill makers was very intense.
Click to expand...

I am not sure about this. I watched the movie Ecstasy Bandits with Shulgin and I'm pretty sure the Mr Ecstasy of holland was on it - he got 10yrs in the jail eventually but he was distributing shitloads all over the world. For a very very long time we could only get Doves. The only other pills you would see were Squares and Snowballs. So 3 choices, but tbh, only 1 choice. That means less labs.

Now - well there's a new pill out every 6mths. And I am pissed I can't get any more Pink Diamonds.

When a new product comes to market, they generally make it to a very very high standard - to get the consumer interested in it. Once it becomes widespread, and pricing is reduced, they can cheapen the product. This is pretty much what happened with E - pills 1994 were £15 or around $23, eventually they were £1 or about $1.50.

I was fortunate enough to go to a new club last week, and although the crowd was a bit rough, it was like teleporting back to the 90s - every single person was on drugs. Great!
 
mark881 said:
I am not sure about this. I watched the movie Ecstasy Bandits with Shulgin and I'm pretty sure the Mr Ecstasy of holland was on it - he got 10yrs in the jail eventually but he was distributing shitloads all over the world. For a very very long time we could only get Doves. The only other pills you would see were Squares and Snowballs. So 3 choices, but tbh, only 1 choice. That means less labs.

Now - well there's a new pill out every 6mths. And I am pissed I can't get any more Pink Diamonds.

When a new product comes to market, they generally make it to a very very high standard - to get the consumer interested in it. Once it becomes widespread, and pricing is reduced, they can cheapen the product. This is pretty much what happened with E - pills 1994 were £15 or around $23, eventually they were £1 or about $1.50.

I was fortunate enough to go to a new club last week, and although the crowd was a bit rough, it was like teleporting back to the 90s - every single person was on drugs. Great!
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You gotta remember your audience here mark. A lot of us purveyors of the pills being stronger then are from the States. Everything is in reverse now where Europe is king ding-a-ling for great E and the US is shit. 10+ years ago it was opposite where the States had such a huge variety of incredibly potent presses where Europe, from a little bit of research I've done, was rampant with a more than sub-par scene as opposed to what it's become now.

All I remember back then was being able to expect a mind-blowing experience with every pill, no matter the press, and there were a lot of different ones that ALWAYS lived up to the expectations and often times exceeded them. I believe It's very possible that pressers in the States back then were engaged in a "quality war" where the scene was driven by a love for the product instead of the greed It's been taken over by. That and the resources to do so were much more available then.
 
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