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How we rolled in the 90s when the pills were super strong

J.Wallace said:
People still roll like this. It's just the quality is less pure. The attitude is the same though, being balls out totally free of ones own consciousness. The people in that video are clearly have a hell of a time. People still know how to have fun :)
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Exactly... :) That video doesn't look any different from the raves I go to now. There *is* still good, strong MDMA out there that will have you blissfully rolling balls for hours, but yeah, the quality just tends to be less pure now unfortunately.
 
so are most the people in this thread complaining about the 'change' in mdma located in the states? just curious because from my knowledge its been pretty much next to impossible to find domestic molly in the states. what about ordering from somewhere in europe?
 
georgewc2001 said:
Lol...thank you...I actually tried to quote you from one of the earlier pages cause I agreed with what you were saying...was dead on but the quote thing wasn't working.

Anway...that is what I'm trying to get at....the experience was WAYYYYYYY MORE INTENSE...yes! I mean like a fucking significant emotional experience that left you touched for days and that you won't forget for life.

That is not happening anymore. I am very jealous you got even close to there but the mints have an amazing rep. Goddamn, I gotta get my hands on some.

And what you said about when you experience that roll...like when your tolerance was already up is evidence that tolerance is not the issue...as I had said.
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I see your point but I just gotta say that it might be harder now to find MDMA that good, but it's definitely out there. I've had plenty experiences that left me almost in tears, touched me for days... weeks even and changed my entire life. But, then there is a lotttt of MDMA I've done that is fun and euphoric but nowhere near as intensely magical as the times when I roll hard.
 
squidhead said:
yeah, that was the last time i did ecstasy...around 1998. I think they looked like a mitsubishi logo...but the 1 thing i really liked, was how good-looking everyone was...=d

3opdvu.jpg
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wow lol
 
If your doing diamonds then yeh your gonna need at least two over the course of the night, if you are not new to the drug. Only 90-110 mg in my book and probably no amphet. Pills of the 90's often contained a mix of MDMA, MDA, and phet, with even alot of MDEA pills aswell. Now most are just clean MDMA but the UK produced pills while good are not a scratch on dosages of dutch pills. Uk pills are like the lego's, diamonds etc are around the 100-120 mark while dutch presses double that. US pills 0-60mg haha.
 
^^^^ lmao that's some funny shit. I'm not sure I want what there on lol. It looked like a rave for handicap people !!
 
yanker said:
^^^^ lmao that's some funny shit. I'm not sure I want what there on lol. It looked like a rave for handicap people !!
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I remember when people used to roll hard and dance freely without caring how they look, too bad you rarely see that at raves anymore. I'll happily take a bunch of people dancing like they look crazy rather than 80% of the people standing there or laying on the floor.

Ever recorded yourself rolling hard while enjoying music? I'm sure you don't look much better lol
 
Lol not dancing but I've recorded conversations between me and my girl and the next day were like wtf? Were retarded!!
 
Glowing aaron said:
If your doing diamonds then yeh your gonna need at least two over the course of the night, if you are not new to the drug. Only 90-110 mg in my book and probably no amphet. Pills of the 90's often contained a mix of MDMA, MDA, and phet, with even alot of MDEA pills aswell. Now most are just clean MDMA but the UK produced pills while good are not a scratch on dosages of dutch pills. Uk pills are like the lego's, diamonds etc are around the 100-120 mark while dutch presses double that. US pills 0-60mg haha.
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Yeah I got a good result from 1.3 green squares, I'll do 1.5 dose this weekend, I guess around 150mg/160mg.
 
In the 90s, mda was mixed in more and pills were also laced with amphetemine more often, but not to the point where it fucked up the roll. The idea was to have just enough to give you an energized roll all night for dancing. MDA has a speedier longer lasting feel...prob why the white ladies in '07 were so popular. I'd say they were a 90s strength level pill.

The main thing I notice now vs. the 90s or even to some degree the '05-'08ish period is that the mdma seems watered down. It used to make me roll hard enough that I could still feel it in my body for a few days...ie an afterglow or whatever. I had this experience with the original white ladies/G spots too. Also with some super sweet molly in fall '09. Then came January/February 2010 and the blue stars came around (NE US), which were surprising legit...med dose quality mdma. I still could run through 6-8 of em in night. I complained about them being med dose then, but now I'd give my left nut to have those again. Since around that time (winter 2010), it's been tough to say the least.

I'm not saying there's not good shit out there, I'm just saying its WAAAAAAY harder to find, which would indicate a shortage in pure crystals. I would guess the high dose pills in Holland deliver the punch of 90s pills, but I haven't tried em. They may not if they're not a mix of mdma/mda/amp. There's a reason why the original mitsubishi turbos were so popular and they didn't call them "turbos" for nothing.
 
Check these guys out. They're trippin' balls so heavily, that they toss this dude UNDER a burning car because he said he left his pills in the glove-box...=D

kHzcv.gif
 
georgewc2001 said:
In the 90s, mda was mixed in more and pills were also laced with amphetemine more often, but not to the point where it fucked up the roll. The idea was to have just enough to give you an energized roll all night for dancing. MDA has a speedier longer lasting feel...prob why the white ladies in '07 were so popular. I'd say they were a 90s strength level pill.

The main thing I notice now vs. the 90s or even to some degree the '05-'08ish period is that the mdma seems watered down. It used to make me roll hard enough that I could still feel it in my body for a few days...ie an afterglow or whatever. I had this experience with the original white ladies/G spots too. Also with some super sweet molly in fall '09. Then came January/February 2010 and the blue stars came around (NE US), which were surprising legit...med dose quality mdma. I still could run through 6-8 of em in night. I complained about them being med dose then, but now I'd give my left nut to have those again. Since around that time (winter 2010), it's been tough to say the least.

I'm not saying there's not good shit out there, I'm just saying its WAAAAAAY harder to find, which would indicate a shortage in pure crystals. I would guess the high dose pills in Holland deliver the punch of 90s pills, but I haven't tried em. They may not if they're not a mix of mdma/mda/amp. There's a reason why the original mitsubishi turbos were so popular and they didn't call them "turbos" for nothing.
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THIS! Defo more amphet early 90s pills and more MDMA, but like you say, the ratio was spot on that it didn't metabolise the shit out of the MDMA and you could get to sleep.

I am amazed it's so shit in the US, but I am guessing that country is so huge, a little lab somewhere will have a hard time distributing.
 
Far as I can tell, the best thing going in the US are the mints in Chicago area. I haven't had the pleasure of trying them yet, but from reports they're great. Even the everlasting California is now showing signs of the piperazine plague. I have great respect for the mint man, whoever he is as he obviously takes pride in his product.
 
Heres my 2 cents

I was around in the 90s and I dont think there was anything magical about the quality of the MDMA at that time. I think things were just different.

I do think that some of the magic is based on nostalgia but I also think the coctails and methods were obviousley a little different as well.

There werent really readily available RCs around then or at least a lot less, there were far less piperazines (if any) and I think many of the pills made started life as piperanol so with some synthetic routes were often MDA before they were synthesised into MDMA. Quite often the lab would reserve some of the MDA and create a MDMA / MDA mix and sometimes add some amphetamine for good measure as well. Often in the 90s there was more amphetamine around and less meth around so this would have made a difference also.

In theory the current market is better. greater choice and cheaper. Theoretically you should be able to tailor make your experience with MDMA crystal (very hard to get in the 90s), add your own speed in a small dose and spice it up with an MDA copy RC such as 6-APB. Also pills now are a lot cheaper. MDMA crystal in UK is also cheap.

I think the problem now is the choice is so great the market has got flooded and the chances of just going out and buying something reliable is almost impossible. For this reason it has become essential that pills are tested and MDMA is sourced from only reliable sources not dealers in clubs. In some ways I think the 'over availability' has lead to the diminish in perceived quality and therefore less 'magical' experiences.

The chat about isomers is interesting but it seems those who get to truly try an R or S isomer loaded dose of MDMA is for only the selected few. I think most of us have always been served the 50:50 ratios primarily because of the methods in which the clandestines operate and also because no one has the luxury of time to be experimenting with complex additional processes to make these isomer varients.

I agree with many in this post the MDMA molecule in the 90s is the same as the MDMA molecule today and will be the same as the MDMA molecule 10 years in the future. I really dont think a weaker or inferior version exists.

Impurities in the batch are unlikely to have any effect on the overall feel of the high. I think the experience from one pill to the next is due to the active dose and any additional CNS active substances such as MDA, MDEA, Meth, Speed, Caffeine, DXM etc.

Whilst reading further about this topic here are some posts I found really useful. Relevant bluelighters acknowledged:



quote from fastandbulbous

The synthetic route from safrole only leads to racaemic MDMA, whereas that from piperonal produces racamic MDA that must then be methylated to MDMA, so a change from the first to the second synthetic route leaves the door open for MDA to be a contaminamt of MDMA (how much is dependant on the skill/sloppiness of the synthetic chemist). This would alter the subjective feel of taking it.

Chiral synthesis requires starting with a chiral compound (which none of the clandestine synths do) or separating the isomers at the end of the synthesis. Separating them by fractional recrystallizatiob is a tediously slow process and generally requires the formation of salts of d-tartaric acid; the recrystallization is very unlikely to be carried out as once made, the product is shipped out as fast as possible. Also it would require the conversion of the tartaric acid salt to a hydrochloride, which introduces more opportunity for losing some of the product. So if it was done by fractional recrystallization, you'd expect the stuff found on the street to be the tartrate salt

So basically: Is it a different mix of isomers> Well that would be so rare that I think you can confidentially say No




quote from vecktor

there is a general rule that a synthesis that doesn't involve chiral reagents does not make a chiral product or even a slight excess of one enantiomer over the other.

Many people report differing mdma 'magic' over time, If we assume this is real and not selective memory and nostalgia the most likely explanation is that in ecstacy pills the dose fell and the constitution changed quite a lot over time.

Forensic analysis in Europe shows that in the 1980's ecstacy was mostly just MDMA then from about 1988 onwards it was MDMA and amphetamine (and often caffeine) mixture in quite high doses until perhaps the late 90's then probably due to developments in Poland the amphetamine and content dropped and it went to MDMA caffeine with ever decreasing doses.

Also throw into the mix MDEA in the mid to late 1990's large quantities of MDA for a couple of years in the early 90's, MBDB for a short while in the late 1990's then increasing amounts of various piperazines from 2000 onwards.

As far as I am aware clandestine (read badly purified) MDMA from piperonal of MDP2P or from safrole all the standard routes are practically identical, the impurities are not there in sufficient amounts to have an effect. there are sufficient impurities to identify the route used but I cannot see traces of safrole or mdp2p or nasty nitrostyrene polymers or whatever having any effect

I also think people have serous nostalgia problems, the first few times are likely to be more impressive because of the novelty (or perhaps before the brain damage kicks in )


quote from phase_dancer

What you may be thinking of is isosafrole which can exist as two isomers, cis isosafrole and trans isosafrole. This form of isomer results from substitution across a double bond. Basically it may stick out left or right in direction. If the other end substitute is orientated in the same direction, the molecule is said to be the cis isomer. If in the opposite position it is known as the trans isomer

When the isomerisation is done to safrole both isomers are produced, but the trans isomer is more stable so is the dominant component (70:30).

From here on, whether the iso used is one isomer or the other becomes irrelevant as conversion to the ketone also produces a planer molecule which only exists in one form.

When the final reductive amination occurs, 2 isomers are produced; the (+) or d or -in this case- the S isomer, and the (-) or l or R in a 50:50 ratio.

This route, or a variation of, is the usual method used to produce MDMA. While routes and methods exist for producing a single isomer of MDMA, this is hardly ever done IMO as it would be far from economically justifiable and the market, given the choice, would prefer the 50:50 mixture anyway.
 
The plot thickens on this fascinating topic...

i have been reading a few MDMA synth forums checking further into the idea of MDMA isomers. With view of looking into the actual practicality of making this seperation.

From what I can make out with a bit more research it would appear that seperating out the MDMA isomers isnt quite as complicated as it initially appeared. It also indicates there is little loss of product in the process.

Could it be possible that a chemist might seperate out some R & S isomers and then mix with racemic to produce a different type of hit?

Could this explain the theory behind the Defqons/Speakers and Triforces all being from the same lab and all being rumoured to contain different levels of isomers. They all contain high dose of MDMA but many users report a different experience.

Clearly the lab knockingout these tabs have certainly pushed it up a notch.

The quality of press
The high potency of dose
The perceived different experiences from the mentioned three

in some ways I am now thinking has this lab gone the extra mile? Seperated out the isomers and created different recipes?

I am not sure if this technique would have been an influence on the 90s synths but certainly food for thought.

listed below some text from Fallen Angel describing the different effects after he seperates out the isomers. in a seperate post I have listed the technique used to seperate out the isomers.


Biotest

D-MDMA
T. 0:00 Took 70mg with a small amount of soup.
T. 0:40 Start of.
T. 0:50 come to the fore stimulation.
T. 1:10 feeling that he missed a dose. Added 20-25mg for the full manifestation of effects.
T. 1:30 substance differs radically from the DL-MDMA: strong stimulation and extremely clear head. Effects are serious, in vain, I added those 25mg.
T. 1:40 came 25mg. The state, characteristic of a large release of dopamine and serotonin: a strong stimulation, a great mood, but begin to appear pobochki - tugging and spasms of smooth muscles of the abdomen.
In contrast to the racemate, the head completely clear, there is little euphoria, empathy weak to feel it, we must listen to yourself. No smearing. +2 On Shulgin, not more.
Difficult to say, I like this state or not. There is something of a racemate, but not all, obviously something is missing. Perhaps a similar state can be obtained simultaneously Having eaten his fill of fluoxetine stimulants.
T. 5:00 Took fluoxetine.
The next day, no abnormalities were noticed, though, after the racemate observed a small tail.

L-MDMA
T. 0:00 Took 110mg with a small amount of food.
T. 0:40 Start of.
T. 1:00 Wow, this is quite psychedelic.
T. 1:30 Everything seems magical, the head bad-thinking, highly smears, get on its feet is not realistic, but the euphoria and empathy non-existent. +3 To Shulgin. It seems that he missed a dose - too much, I had to try 50-70mg.
T. 2:30 Not comfortable feeling that I was deceived - wrapping the same, but different content.
T. 5:00 Took fluoxetine.
The next day, terrible headache, the effect remained at 1. The tail of admission to the islands stretched nearly a week.


So (IMHO):
1. Ecstasy should be viewed as a mixture of two substances, and the only way - a stimulant-serotoninrealizera and psychedelia, albeit resulting in one bottle. Therefore, it is possible to find close analogues of MDMA, mixing two or three surfactants.
2. The magic of MDMA, entaktogennye properties and largely euphoria due to the combined action of both isomers. This D-MDMA is responsible for the stimulation, the selection of serotonin and empathy, L-MDMA for psychedelic component and mazhuschee action. Entaktogennyemi properties and magic neither one nor the other isomer individually do not possess.
3. Selective extraction works great, if it correctly carried out.
4. Obviously, the most interesting: unpretentious protsedurka separation of isomers - 10 minutes, and ready - allows to increase the amount of matter in three times - D, L, DL.
Since each isomer has its unique action, then outlines the prospects are very interesting, for example, try to separate isomers of PMMA - I guarantee that there will be three completely different drug. What is the scope for research! Consider, gentlemen?
 
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