• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

How toxic is Mephedrone?

Well as you maybe guessed I registered to join in this thread and make a post.

Have been using mcat (this is what I call it among friends, looking at this thread and my source I think its now 4mmc) for a few months probably a total of 6-7 times. I smoked weed whilst I was in college (in the UK, so ages 16-18) and took E probably a total of 15 times in my life. Tried coke once or twice but in tiny quantities barely enough to feel any effect at all.

One of the problems with mcat is confusion over what it actually is - reading this thread mcat is NOT the same as mephedrone/4MMC, except 4MMC has the word methcathinone actually in it? Websites selling mcat/meph/4mmc etc (you see the problem) are seemingly calling whatever they sell multiple conflicting names. What I have says 4MMC on the bag and says it's mephedrone but also lists the street names for the drug on the website I purchased from.

Initially I thought this was a wonder drug, easy to get hold of, legal? pure?, certainly very cheap. It gives me a clean feeling high and the euphoria and empathy of E which I love without the long come up and nasty come down. I am starting to reconsider though - It makes my hearth thump unlike anything i've ever done. I tried a bit a couple of hours ago, scarily I noticed my hands and feet were cold and slightly blue at the same time as reading this thread. It seems very minor though but a scary effect to notice notheless, I certainly won't be doing any more for a while.

I am in the NE of England currently and can report it is spreading like wildfire here, especially within the last 4-5 months. It's gone from nobody knowing what it is to just about everyone I know that does drugs having tried it, being offered it in clubs, talking to other people in clubs who have had/are using it. Being able to buy it for a quater the price of other drugs, at a high level of purity, posted to your door next day from a convenient website is a big selling point. I am certain we will see more cases of use/abuse in the media being reported, to me it feels like its on the verge of becoming semi epidemic here although obviously I only have a tiny window into things.

Someone who knows more about the history of legal drugs in the UK or other countries - has there ever been anything that compares to this in strength, equivalent enjoyment of the user (ie a class A equivalent, crude I know but you understand what I mean) and most importantly price and availability before? I've been closeish to drug culture althought a light user for 6-7 years and have never heard anyone talk about anything legal like this before. Obviously I am only one person with isolated experience but part of me thinks this will become an really really big within a year or two if it isn't banned, maybe even seeping into circles that normally refuse drug use? I have heard of at least one old friend who was anti-drugs using this, probably because it's "legal".

I haven't really done any other drug considered addictive at all, but to me mcat/4mmc/meph feels like an extremely addictive substance when you get going. My thoughts are changing on the drug severely, I have one big club night coming up for a friends birthday that I would like to do some on, from then on I can happily leave it completely, it feels inherently bad in a way E never did for me.

I know this is a long rambling awful first post but I thought I'd put down a few thoughts. I guess nothing is free and things that sound to good to be true probably are, feel glad I found this thread.
 
Mephedrone is probably in a similar state as amphetamine salts were 50 years ago. Still legal, being abused widely, often by people who don't even know what it IS other than an "upper".
 
I'm still surprised by how many people see Mephedrone as really dangerous when in actuality it's rather standard as regards to toxicity considering there's only one confirmed death and a HUGE amount of the world are using it. This is based on the available anecdotal evidence as that's ALL we have.

Yes, it could be bad for the heart valve due to 5HT2b agonism however MDMA is also a 5HT2b agonist and people consider that relatively safe. Purple knee syndrome is without a doubt bad and is caused by people using far too much the majority of the time.

What I'm trying to say is, this drug is clearly harmful but some people's posts are completely unfounded when they say "I would never touch this". It doesn't help debate and it certainly doesn't ring true when people on this forum admit to using TWO HUNDRED GRAMS a month.
 
Ok so as I said in my last post I had a small amount and then stopped last night. Much less than I normally take if I go out or get into it. Max I have had in 1 evening is probably 0.5g, most times i'ts been a few dabs though. I woke up this morning (took me ages to get to sleep but no surprise there) still with slightly cold feeling hands and feet and lower legs. Weirdly I seem to be a little more tanned (I still have some leftover tan from a hot holiday a few months ago which has been pumped up a bit) than before.

In the shower my hands, forearms and lower legs and feet look slightly redder than normal. This is after consuming a relatively small amount compared to someone having a session of the stuff. I don't think i've had this reaction before although I may simply have not noticed it as I wasn't looking out for it before i;d read some of this thread. I had 3 pints of beer before taking some last nite, but am normally not drinking when I do it.

All I can say is it feels very odd to be more tanned and have the vascular effects ater having 2 lines last nite, likely I won't be touching the stuff ever again, the vascular feeling is unnerving considering I only had a small amount and could have taken much more.

In my opinion the purity (I assume it's pureish or close to it - bought from an online vendor) is partly why it's dangerous. Not being mixed in with a load of other crap allows a cleaner high and you can take more without feeling muggy.

Anyone else with experience of a light case of the vascular effects? I goto the gym and have about 12% bodyfat and a fair amount of muscle at the moment which may make it effects more marked in me possibly? It does feel minor but is worrying, i'll see a doc if not gone in a week or two. Any ideas on how to remedy it?
 
Pretty sure I had the same thing the day after - it didn't bother me too much as i'm sure i had the same thing with amphetamines years ago - probably best to give the 4MMC a break though and keep up the good diet and exercise! I noticed my skin felt drier and a little itchy afterwards as well
 
i started to get red knuckles and knees and slightly red toes after doing 500mg every weekend for 4 months, along with come downs and heart palpitations. also numb hands when i went to bed, pins and needles sometimes. after a few weeks it all returned to normal. until i stupidly did meph again
 
I'm still surprised by how many people see Mephedrone as really dangerous when in actuality it's rather standard as regards to toxicity considering there's only one confirmed death and a HUGE amount of the world are using it. This is based on the available anecdotal evidence as that's ALL we have.

you need to make the distinction between acute and long term toxicity. Dexfenfluramine has low acute toxicity, so do cox2 inhibitors, however both are highly dangerous long term.

We know about the long term adverse effects of ephedrine, and also know that mephedrone is metabolised into paramethylephedrine. whilst ephedrine doesn't have much acute toxicity, it can be very harmful long term and there is no reason to expect para-methyl ephedrine to be any different.

The good news is that most of the case reports of cardiac and other problems caused by ephedrine seem to resolve themselves once ephedrine use is discontinued, so I would expect that on the whole the adverse effects of mephedrone will resolve themselves given time and ceasing mephedrone use.

Yes, it could be bad for the heart valve due to 5HT2b agonism however MDMA is also a 5HT2b agonist and people consider that relatively safe. Purple knee syndrome is without a doubt bad and is caused by people using far too much the majority of the time.

this is a non arguament, MDMA is not consumed at the kind of doses typical for mephedrone nor is it consumed repeatedly for the length of time typical with mephedrone use, Whether there is any 2b agonism caused by mephedrone is unknown, IMHO the 2b agonism aspect is a red herring.
As you say there is a plethora of anecdotal evidence, some negative some positive. however there are reports of the blue knee syndrome at low doses.

What I'm trying to say is, this drug is clearly harmful but some people's posts are completely unfounded when they say "I would never touch this". It doesn't help debate and it certainly doesn't ring true when people on this forum admit to using TWO HUNDRED GRAMS a month.

People are entitled to their opinion especially when is comes to what they choose to ingest. They can look at the available evidence, or lack of perhaps they can decide that the absence of evidence of harm is not evidence of absence of harm. Or they can choose to take the chance, either is valid and depends more on your life philosophy than anything else.

From the beginning my position has been be careful with this stuff, moderate consumption and allow wash out time and this in the absence of any decent toxicology data is strict harm minimisation.

A personal cost benefit analysis means I wouldn't touch this stuff, even moderate use, but that is my call. You can argue your position wrt mephedrone all you like, but actually your position is irrelevant to me. Don't expect others to validate your position and offer comforting support, it is your own call ,you make it, it is your body and you alone face the consequences if your call is wrong.

if there is one take home message from this post it is :


if you choose to take mephedrone you should be aware you are taking a chance and should moderate consumption, just in case
 
It's great stuff and i'm doing 200mg once a weekend, no problem so far. I just don't snort it so it's less addictive also the stimulant affects last the better part of a day, even the next day I feel a little speedy.

But I may stop as i'm worried about any psychological problems like panic attacks or brain damage that may surface.

I'm taking Vitamin B complex, fish oil and fruits and veges everyday to help minimise any possible damage.
 
this is a non arguament, MDMA is not consumed at the kind of doses typical for mephedrone nor is it consumed repeatedly for the length of time typical with mephedrone use, Whether there is any 2b agonism caused by mephedrone is unknown, IMHO the 2b agonism aspect is a red herring.
As you say there is a plethora of anecdotal evidence, some negative some positive. however there are reports of the blue knee syndrome at low doses.

Most of your post I agree with but this I take issue with.

Just because the dose of Mephedrone is higher does not make any bit of difference. Bromo-DragonFLY is consumed at very low doses and can cause fatal Vasoconstriction. Dose is entirely relative.

Another point is that the effects of MDMA last longer than they do for Mephedrone. I'd assume this means the 5HT2b receptor is being agonised for longer from a single dose.

I'm not saying 2b agonism is bad or not but your arguments for MDMA being less dangerous in this respect are not concrete.
 
3 nights on since I had some sort of reaction to the roughly 50-100mg mephedrone I had.

My hands and feet are still quite pink, as are my calves and knees when I have a shower. I don't think I have a particularly bad case but it it feels like its going to take a long time to go away. If there is no change at all within a week i'll see my doctor although i'm not sure what they'll be able to do? It's not causing me any acute pain or distress but it's not pleasant to see the cirulation so obviously affected by a small amount of the drug.

Can anyone else who's had this sort of problem report back on any progress they've made, do they still have it, how long did it take to go etc? Any word would be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is stay the fuck away from meph people, I estimate I took probably 2g in total over the course of 3-4 months and am now wondering how long i'll be stuck with this dodgy circulation for. Hoping it's not permanent is all I can do right now.
 
3 nights on since I had some sort of reaction to the roughly 50-100mg mephedrone I had.

My hands and feet are still quite pink, as are my calves and knees when I have a shower. I don't think I have a particularly bad case but it it feels like its going to take a long time to go away. If there is no change at all within a week i'll see my doctor although i'm not sure what they'll be able to do? It's not causing me any acute pain or distress but it's not pleasant to see the cirulation so obviously affected by a small amount of the drug.

Can anyone else who's had this sort of problem report back on any progress they've made, do they still have it, how long did it take to go etc? Any word would be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is stay the fuck away from meph people, I estimate I took probably 2g in total over the course of 3-4 months and am now wondering how long i'll be stuck with this dodgy circulation for. Hoping it's not permanent is all I can do right now.

I had circulatory issues from Methylone that caused me tingling and numbness. I also had slightly purple extremeties and red genitalia with some discharge (lovely!).

I'm pleased to say after a month of abstinence from beta ketones I've not noticed circulatory issues although I've noticed the wrist of my right hand sometimes goes rather red but I'm not sure if this is related.

I am probably going to be taking some Mephedrone this weekend and am going to try 100mg the first time and note if circulatory issues come back (even though they originally came from Methylone). I'll report back on the details.

I wouldn't worry yourself about it too much as nobody fully understands what causes the blue skin. People largely agree now that it probably isn't just vasoconstriction and that it may be a specific form of vasculitus caused by a metabolite. Some argue that the purple/blue skin dies rather quickly and peels off in the following weeks. I have noticed that the skin on my wrist is peeling off slightly and this may be why.
 
3 nights on since I had some sort of reaction to the roughly 50-100mg mephedrone I had.

My hands and feet are still quite pink, as are my calves and knees when I have a shower. I don't think I have a particularly bad case but it it feels like its going to take a long time to go away. If there is no change at all within a week i'll see my doctor although i'm not sure what they'll be able to do? It's not causing me any acute pain or distress but it's not pleasant to see the cirulation so obviously affected by a small amount of the drug.

Can anyone else who's had this sort of problem report back on any progress they've made, do they still have it, how long did it take to go etc? Any word would be greatly appreciated.

All I can say is stay the fuck away from meph people, I estimate I took probably 2g in total over the course of 3-4 months and am now wondering how long i'll be stuck with this dodgy circulation for. Hoping it's not permanent is all I can do right now.

You might wanna check out the mephedrone long term side effects thread here
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=457690

It could take from weeks to several months to clear up, but it seems everyone agree it'll eventually go away, or improve anyway. In the meantime going to the doc and having a check up can be a good idea, but don't expect he'll be able to tell you anything. Even the worst cases didn't show anything at the regular analysis, BUT you'll be sure nothing really dangerous is going on with your heart. It's the classic better safe than sorry.
Panicking now is useless, but being serious about taking care of your body and try to make it recover is a must IMHO. This means get checked if necessary, stay the fuck away not only from meph but from every other stimulant at least for some months, eat healthy and exercise.

Also the last part of Mike's post I'm finding hard time to give it a sense: you say the guy doesn't need to worry because a drug causes a strong and clearly noticeable side effect but no one knows why??? WTF? I think it's quite the opposite, if you got a side effect but you know what are the causes and what it is then you can be cool with it, but if it's something you have no idea about it and how dangerous it is you are damn right to be concerned!

Of course this is not for jumping on the "meph is evil" bandwagon, we are doing harm minimization here right? Not some kind of drug pro/againt propaganda.
 
Also the last part of Mike's post I'm finding hard time to give it a sense: you say the guy doesn't need to worry because a drug causes a strong and clearly noticeable side effect but no one knows why??? WTF? I think it's quite the opposite, if you got a side effect but you know what are the causes and what it is then you can be cool with it, but if it's something you have no idea about it and how dangerous it is you are damn right to be concerned!

Of course this is not for jumping on the "meph is evil" bandwagon, we are doing harm minimization here right? Not some kind of drug pro/againt propaganda.

I didn't mean don't take care of yourself. I meant that panicking over a side effect that many people have reported and gotten over is counterproductive. Nobody knows for sure what causes the blueness but people who have done research and experienced it agree it's not vasoconstriction alone. Vasoconstriction involves pain and muscle cramps and my problems involved no muscle cramps or pain whatsoever. Some people speculate a metabolite may cause a specific type of vasculitus and right now I think that's the most likely hypothesis.

Of course not knowing is concerning but we DO know people who've had this issue tend to have normal BP, normal pulse and a normal ECG. If it was very dangerous vitals would be changed. I agree he should lay off Mephedrone and stimulants. For Gods sake this is a research chemical and of course we don't know the details about effects and toxicity. If you're going to worry about not understanding a drug, why are you taking it in the first place?
 
The vasoconstriction paranoia is pretty ridiculous to be honest, it's all you seem to hear about slightest pins and needles and it's panic stations, geez everyone gets pins and needles from time to time and cold feet ? It's the coldest sodding winter in 31 years in the UK. =D
 
I didn't mean don't take care of yourself. I meant that panicking over a side effect that many people have reported and gotten over is counterproductive. Nobody knows for sure what causes the blueness but people who have done research and experienced it agree it's not vasoconstriction alone. Vasoconstriction involves pain and muscle cramps and my problems involved no muscle cramps or pain whatsoever. Some people speculate a metabolite may cause a specific type of vasculitus and right now I think that's the most likely hypothesis.

Of course not knowing is concerning but we DO know people who've had this issue tend to have normal BP, normal pulse and a normal ECG. If it was very dangerous vitals would be changed. I agree he should lay off Mephedrone and stimulants. For Gods sake this is a research chemical and of course we don't know the details about effects and toxicity. If you're going to worry about not understanding a drug, why are you taking it in the first place?

Now we agree, I was the first saying panicking is useless, and of course when you introduce a RC in your body you have to take your responsibilities. Like Vektor said it's about acute and long term toxicity, you clearly are not gonna die after getting purple knees. Still the long term effects are unknown and like another guy here pointed out people seems to be much more reckless with meph's side effects than with most (if not any) other drug...
 
somebody has to pay for the research. There is some academic work being done on it but it is under resourced.
 
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