How to get intense close-eyed visuals on Salvia?

[Jack Torrance]

I smoke it now and again, and I find it to be quite enjoyable (because I find things like hallucinations, dreams, the subconscious mind etc to be incredibly interesting), but I'm not having the sort of visuals I would like. Eyes closed, it's very rare that visions I have are coloured in, typically I just see shades of black and outlines which VERY roughly resemble real life objects, and that's if I'm lucky. If I do see a vision with colour, it's typically just like what you'd see if you try to paint a vivid picture in your mind using imagination, just a little bit clearer. But I want something like this:

Level - 4 "V" stands for VIVID visionary state. Complex three-dimensional realistic appearing scenes occur. Sometimes voices may be heard. With eyes open, contact with consensual reality will not be entirely lost, but when you close your eyes you may forget about consensus reality and enter completely into a dreamlike scene. Shamanistic journeying to other lands--foreign or imaginary; encounters with beings (entities, spirits) or travels to other ages may occur. You may even live the life of another person. At this level you have entered the shaman's world. Or if you prefer: you are in "dream time." With eyes closed, you experience fantasies (dream like happenings with a story line to them). So long as your eyes are closed you may believe they are really occurring. This differs from the "eye candy" closed-eye imagery, of level 3.

I don't know how to get there. I feel like the dose I am taking is quite strong... Usually a full pinch with about half a pinch more on top. I will literally go weigh the amount I tend to use and update the thread after... I have a torch lighter but I haven't used it yet, it tends to burn a hole in the gauze (yeah, they're stainless steel too), I usually just hold a regular lighter on it and inhale fully, then hold it for 30 seconds-ish. I definitely trip, no two ways about it (however it's always just my real life vision becoming fragmented and repeated, and it loses meaning, almost like I have zoomed right out from the image my eyes are seeing and am viewing it from the back of my head, plus a very strong sense of motion), but I can't seem to get any closed eye visuals or when I do they're very weak, definitely not "complex three-dimensional realistic appearing scenes"... They lack clarity & colour, even when I try to force strong visions by closing my eyes and covering them with my hands and even blindfolds to cast my eyes into total darkness.

Any advice for me on reaching the state I want? I did make a similar thread but it was very convoluted, hopefully this is clearer.

 

[Survived Abortion]

Don't try to force visuals to happen. That will never work properly. Accept the visuals you are having and go with them. If you are able to think about covering your eyes with your hands or a blindfold, then you definitely haven't taken enough Salvia. Once you get a proper dose, you wont even be able to think about covering your eyes. Hell, you wont even know what a hand or a blindfold means.

Something tells me you are not getting a high enough dose. I have "broken through" (if that even means anything) with a normal lighter, in fact I don't beleive I've ever used a torch lighter with Salvia. What you do need to do though is take a huge lungful, without coughing, and hold the hit in for at least 30 seconds. If, by the time you exhale, you are not experincing the laws of physics being completely obliterated then you didn't take enough. Take another rip. Same thing, hold it in as long as possible.

You might want to fill your bowl a little higher, depending on the strength of your extract. Also, note that some extracts being sold are nowhere near as potent as other standardized extracts. So, even if it says 40x, you may not know how many milligrams of Salvia there are per gram of leaf.

Salvia can be quite visual and visionary, but not in the same way as a tryptamine or phenethylamine. The CEVs in particular are much darker in tone, with neon blues predominating (rather than the bright greens and reds of phens). Also they have a different quality of depth to the kind of visions experienced with serotonergics. The visions on Salvia can be ontologically engrossing to the point that you may feel you are actually part of the visual narrative. Sometimes the forms can be difficult to make out, most especially if you are tripping hard in to salviaspace where you won't recognize anything in linguistic terms. You probably won't be able to sit there and analyze or intellectualize what you are perceiving, you just perceive. (At high doses).

Eyes open is a different matter, where "visuals" are almost irrelevant. The reality distortions can't really be compared to other psychedelics in this way, so it is useless to talk of tracers, melting, breathing etc. Just accept what you see as part and parcel of the whole experience. It is what it is.

 

[space_monkey]

Terence McKenna recommended us to lie down on the ground in the dark for 30-40 minutes prior to a salvia trip. Well, actually he recommended taking it orally. Lie down in the dark with a ceiling projection clock and a bowl or napkin by your side. Put 40 leaves in your mouth and chew slowly for 15 minutes. Spit out the quid into the bowl/napkin. Wait about 30 minutes and then close your eyes with the expectation of seeing something.

I will post the YouTube link with his narration later.

 

[space_monkey]

Terence McKenna recommended us to lie down on the ground in the dark for 30-40 minutes prior to a salvia trip. Well, actually he recommended taking it orally. Lie down in the dark with a ceiling projection clock and a bowl or napkin by your side. Put 40 leaves in your mouth and chew slowly for 15 minutes. Spit out the quid into the bowl/napkin. Wait about 30 minutes and then close your eyes with the expectation of seeing something.

I will post the YouTube link with his narration later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebMNEKn8B1Q

 

[Jack Torrance]

Don't try to force visuals to happen. That will never work properly. Accept the visuals you are having and go with them. If you are able to think about covering your eyes with your hands or a blindfold, then you definitely haven't taken enough Salvia. Once you get a proper dose, you wont even be able to think about covering your eyes. Hell, you wont even know what a hand or a blindfold means.

Something tells me you are not getting a high enough dose. I have "broken through" (if that even means anything) with a normal lighter, in fact I don't beleive I've ever used a torch lighter with Salvia. What you do need to do though is take a huge lungful, without coughing, and hold the hit in for at least 30 seconds. If, by the time you exhale, you are not experincing the laws of physics being completely obliterated then you didn't take enough. Take another rip. Same thing, hold it in as long as possible.

You might want to fill your bowl a little higher, depending on the strength of your extract. Also, note that some extracts being sold are nowhere near as potent as other standardized extracts. So, even if it says 40x, you may not know how many milligrams of Salvia there are per gram of leaf.

Salvia can be quite visual and visionary, but not in the same way as a tryptamine or phenethylamine. The CEVs in particular are much darker in tone, with neon blues predominating (rather than the bright greens and reds of phens). Also they have a different quality of depth to the kind of visions experienced with serotonergics. The visions on Salvia can be ontologically engrossing to the point that you may feel you are actually part of the visual narrative. Sometimes the forms can be difficult to make out, most especially if you are tripping hard in to salviaspace where you won't recognize anything in linguistic terms. You probably won't be able to sit there and analyze or intellectualize what you are perceiving, you just perceive. (At high doses).

Eyes open is a different matter, where "visuals" are almost irrelevant. The reality distortions can't really be compared to other psychedelics in this way, so it is useless to talk of tracers, melting, breathing etc. Just accept what you see as part and parcel of the whole experience. It is what it is.

That's really informative! Thanks bro!

 

[Jack Torrance]

Terence McKenna recommended us to lie down on the ground in the dark for 30-40 minutes prior to a salvia trip. Well, actually he recommended taking it orally. Lie down in the dark with a ceiling projection clock and a bowl or napkin by your side. Put 40 leaves in your mouth and chew slowly for 15 minutes. Spit out the quid into the bowl/napkin. Wait about 30 minutes and then close your eyes with the expectation of seeing something.

I will post the YouTube link with his narration later.

I don't have any leaves at the moment, just extract, and I'm not sure where I would buy leaves if not through the internet.

 

[joe456]

Smoke more maybe try smoking while high if you don't think that will make you anxious. I find that there is a tipping point where i suddenly go from feeling altered but no visuals (haven't tried closing my eyes at this stage though) to tripping unbelievably, not simple eye candy, completely fucked. The first time I did it I'd just shared one spliff and had two beers, had a tiny bit of 10X with a torch lighter (I've tried without and have found the difference overrated), felt really high but not tripping at all, loaded up a bigger amount felt myself getting sooo euphoric and i hald it in, but not trippy, then a few secs after i let out the smoke I was seeing a black background (had probs closed my eyes) and an orange river flowing. Then I saw, amongst completely ineffable experiences, my normal vision, but 2d and rectangular with a black background and with the same thing in front of and behind me, I knew that while sober there would only be one, and wondered if the one i was in would be the sober reality that was left, I then saw these gears moving and creating images on a screen as different bits fused together, I wondered which bits fusing together would bring back normal consciousness again. None of this freaked me out, beyond feeling discorientated, mildly anxious and confused, but then I freaked out over whether or not i was sitting near the corner of the wall this coming back to reality fear was because I was trying to regain all knowledge of what was going on (not the best setting, i was in a public place lol, thought it would be more distortions and trippy colours so would be fine). I asked my mate if I was being loud or if i stood up while tripping he said he didn't know since he was tripping as well (have a trip sitter an trip in your own home or at the home of someone you trust lol). I've tried packing the end of a roll up with salvia, using a roach (English use of the word, rolled up card) instead of a filter, and then blasting the end with a torch lighter, worked very well, but we were on ket, so can't tell you for sure how effective it was. I always hold for 30 seconds, while taking small inhalations every few seconds to move the smoke around in my lungs, don't know if it helps but you might as well give it a go

 

[1394]

I dunno I have never smoked salvia and not trip very hard. Maybe you aren't holding it in enough

 

[Venrak]

I agree with S_A, you aren't smoking enough to break through. Try a higher dose, and really torch the shit out of your leaf. I never needed anything other than a normal bic lighter to break through.

 

[Zenethylamine]

What extract are you using? I have only used a '15x' extract, and that worked fine for me. It also depends on the brand. Some brands of salvia have done absolutely nothing for me.

You definitely have to hold the hit in for a long time. If you get quality product, take a nice big rip from a water pipe (ideally with a torch lighter), and hold it in for about 30 seconds... you will no longer remember who you are, where you are, or that you exist in this universe.

 

[VerbalTruist]

Smoke more? If you're not breaking through you're not doing enough or doing it right.

 

[mecaib]

Technique is everything, IMO. Every time I've broken through it was on plain, 1x leaf, using a regular lighter. I've never tried extracts. What I do is keep the flame on the leaf during the entire inhalation, and keep that hit in for as long as I can. Immediately after blowing it out, I take another hit. I may or may not take one breath of fresh air in between. The goal is to take as many hots hits as I possibly can in the least amount of time. I can usually only manage two before the effects become overwhelming, but I've gotten up to three a couple times.

Setting is important, too. Music can totally control the trip, so watch out. A quiet place is usually recommended for deep diving, as distractions can result in a confusing and chaotic trip. Some like a dimly lit setting, though light level doesn't always make a difference if you've had enough.

When I break through, I totally lose track of my body, and of who or what I am. Sense of self has no meaning. The places I go to are unbelievable. The visuals aren't always visual in the sense of seeing with my eyes. More like seeing with my mind, much more so than with any other substance. I experience the scene being played out from many points of view, because my understanding of its 3D structure is fantastic.

The actual eye visuals are various. I've seen lots of red, leggy beetles, things that look like those little stamps on cigarette packages, my visual field breaking up into fractaline tree structures. These types of visuals are different every time. One time when I was smoking lots of small hits with a friend (with no intention of breaking through), I saw him and myself on different hilltops in the room, and we were human protuberances popping up out of the same substrate. The phone rang, and I immediately saw the caller's head popping out of the phone before the call was even answered. There was a lot of laughing that time :D

Tactile sensations on salvia become very strange. Imagine slicing your body cleanly with the thinnest knife, but without pain, only the feeling of meat sliding against meat. I feel it in my eyes mainly, like rotating onion slices. That is one of the more disturbing features of salvia, though a necessary one, I think.

Back to the 3D effect... For me it is like tubes extending from my head, tubes through which I travel to new places. This transition has a very carnival-like aspect, complete with curved walls with painted decals and shit. Like the side walls of carnival rides, but stacked and integrated in an organic way. It's like this place has always been there, and there is a very familiar feel to it, like it's my real home. But getting there is the scariest part, that transition. The tubes are also often squarish (like a salvia stem, go figure ) and fleshy, and have that sliced flesh sensation to them.

After passing though the narrow corridors, I come into large, usually round polygonal rooms made of that same substance. It's all soft and rounded, like cushions. Passages lead off into different directions, to more rooms that sometimes hold faintly luminous beings. It's like a central area for traveling to different places, possibly into other lives.

I almost always encounter one or more entities. I don't need to break through fully for them to come, since they always come early (about mid way). Some are scary, some are curious and like to mess with my head (feels violating), some are devious and deceptive, and some are happy and friendly. They all communicate telepathically, and influence your thoughts directly. I once met a whole group of child-like entities, and they were singing the best, most loving song ever, something I had never heard, and something I wish I could remember. It was like being welcomed back home, and was totally cool.

I once went through the tubes and popped out into a hospital corridor. I was a greaser from the 50's, with moderately antisocial sentiments and the whole bit. That was my mind set, that's who I was. I simply popped out of the wall of this dark corridor in a hospital, seeing the lights shining from behind the distant double doors onto all the unlit surfaces of the hallway I was in. There was a gurney placed carelessly, and some clothes pushed to the side. It was a real place. As the trip started winding down, the scene kind of folded itself into those squarish tubes. These tubes (which had branches) retracted slowly, and I became aware of my head, and that the tubes were connected to it. When the tubes had fully retracted back into my head, the trip was over and I was fully myself again.

Salvia's definitely worth your time. It can be scary, hilarious, mind-blowing. The places you go to are utterly convincing. It destroys your mental perception of your body and ego to bring you there, thus the slicing and dicing. But the character of the whole thing is totally unique, and not to be missed

 

[JackARoe]

^ Excellent write up Mecaib. I completely agree. Plain leaf works with the right technique and it makes extracts unecessary. Dark silence for deep journeys. Even the sound of the house settling can snap one out of the trance for a second. :D

 

[SpecialK_]

I honestly don't think much preparation is needed for this. The first time I ever took salvia I completely broke through and I would say it was definitely this level 4 you have quoted. I was sitting in an alley, had a big bong of it racked, my friend torched the bowl for me (we didn't know anything but smoking salvia and so this was with a standard lighter) cleared it in one and I don't even remember blowing it out.

I completely forgot that I had smoked salvia and instead was transported to some mad place filled with colours, mainly purple/pink/red in what seemed to be some sort of tent with mad creatures - I can't recall it too well as it was literally my 2nd experience with drugs at the time, I'd only smoked weed about 2-3 times. I literally thought I had went home 6 hours or so later, completely fucked out of my head. I was hearing people say my name in a concerned voice, obviously leading the trip in the typical sinister salvia way. After what felt like a long time - time was massively distorted, it just felt long, I recalled coming down and seeing my friends. Obviously there was more to the trip after that but I was now aware that I was in an alleyway and I'd just had a bong of salvia. I remember speaking immediately after coming out of the, what was only comparable to a breakthrough, and it turned out that what felt like hours had been literally two seconds in real life.

So back to my point, it worked best for me through a bong. Pipes of salvia since have been nowhere near as intense but still as uncomfortable. I recommend just packing a massive bowl of it, go well over what you suspect is the amount needed, torch the complete fuck out of it if you don't have a torch lighter and ensure you clear it in one. After that, hold it in till your eyes wiggle and that'll be you gone.

It's possible that my lack of experience with drugs is what led to this, but I doubt it. While people are saying extracts are unnecessary, I recommend them as it's clear this hasn't been working for you so far. I can't say I recommend it though, it's a fairly uncomfortable drug, the sensations, the visuals, the headspace everything is quite sinister and just not recreational to me. If you do it right though it certainly doesn't take any preparation and setting will not matter whatsoever. It's not a very popular psychedelic as such and seems to be very love/hate. Some people have great experiences on it though as shown from this thread.

 

[Solipsis]

As is said (maybe in other words): meditation or sensory deprivation work.