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How to - Deal with LE.

Sorry to double dip on the questions, but I've been thinking over this one for a little while and it seems you guys might be able to help:

A couple of months ago two policemen appeared at my house on a saturday night, claiming that the alarm on my rear-neighbours house had been activated "and would we mind if they came in and had a look in the backyard over the fence?"

I said no worries, as there was (and still is) nothing illegal happening in my life at the time. It was very early in the evening, and a couple of my friends were over and we accompanied the police into my backyard where they poked around for a few minutes and then left. We swapped a few jokes and all up it was a very cordial visit.

The thing that puzzles me is that there was no sound of an alarm going off nor any flashing lights (could be a 'silent' alarm), but I'm pretty sure cops don't attend burgular alarm set offs. If they do, then this is a pretty pointless post.

One of my good mates had recently been busted for growing some prohibited herbs and he had been dealing for a long time before that, and his girlfriend's mums place has been raided about 3 times since then. I was wondering, seeing as I am in quite frequent contact with him (being a close mate) whether my relationship with him may have led to this visit from the cops?

I have no priors or criminal convictions and I said, I am not engaged in any illegal activities.

The only other things I can thing of are that I am currently challenging an expiation notice in court, and my (semi)activity on bluelight - and both of these seem very unlikely reasons.

So, would cops check out someone's place like this just because they are friends with someone who deals weed?

Ot do cops, in fact, attend house burgular alarms?

My old alarm system, it would ring for 30 seconds, if it wasn't disabled then someone from the security company would call and ask for a password. If no one answered or you gave the wrong password they notified the police immediately. But that wasn't a silent alarm.

Are you friendly with the neighbours? Maybe they called the police and complained about noise or said that they suspected criminal activity and the police made something up to check it out?
 
The neighbours and I pretty much leave each other alone. That night I only had two friends around and it was so early we hadn't even gone to the bottlo or picked up a pizza yet.

When I lived with my olds, our alarm could go off all day - and if security rolled up we'd get billed a hundred bucks, but the cops never ever rocked up
 
Our friends were away and my sister went to their house to pick something up and set of a silent alarm. The security company called my friends and asked if anyone should be there. They said "no" (because they forgot my sister was picking anything up) so the security company called the police.

I doubt what happend to you has anything to do with your mate. I don't think the police could be fucked going to the trouable for something like grass anyway. Probably were looking for someone hideing in your yard.
 
Sorry to double dip on the questions, but I've been thinking over this one for a little while and it seems you guys might be able to help:

A couple of months ago two policemen appeared at my house on a saturday night, claiming that the alarm on my rear-neighbours house had been activated "and would we mind if they came in and had a look in the backyard over the fence?"

I said no worries, as there was (and still is) nothing illegal happening in my life at the time. It was very early in the evening, and a couple of my friends were over and we accompanied the police into my backyard where they poked around for a few minutes and then left. We swapped a few jokes and all up it was a very cordial visit.

The thing that puzzles me is that there was no sound of an alarm going off nor any flashing lights (could be a 'silent' alarm), but I'm pretty sure cops don't attend burgular alarm set offs. If they do, then this is a pretty pointless post.

One of my good mates had recently been busted for growing some prohibited herbs and he had been dealing for a long time before that, and his girlfriend's mums place has been raided about 3 times since then. I was wondering, seeing as I am in quite frequent contact with him (being a close mate) whether my relationship with him may have led to this visit from the cops?

I have no priors or criminal convictions and I said, I am not engaged in any illegal activities.

The only other things I can thing of are that I am currently challenging an expiation notice in court, and my (semi)activity on bluelight - and both of these seem very unlikely reasons.

So, would cops check out someone's place like this just because they are friends with someone who deals weed?

Ot do cops, in fact, attend house burgular alarms?

U can refuse entry if u want, without a search warrant they cant do anything. But is better that u let em in as u had no illegal activity goin on. If u had been then its a dif story and that would of been a warning for u to stop anything illegal happening at ur place.
 
The thing that puzzles me is that there was no sound of an alarm going off nor any flashing lights (could be a 'silent' alarm), but I'm pretty sure cops don't attend burgular alarm set offs. If they do, then this is a pretty pointless post.

Silent alarms do exist in the residential setting, though rarely. I can comment with absolute certainty that one of the big national companies will send a security patrol car to the house to check it out if the alarm is activated. If there is a 'genuine break', they secure while police attend. To have police attend in the first instance is very odd - duress alarm activation and other certain pre reqs allow security operations centres use of a priority 'Alpha Code', which, when calling triple zero, gets the call sent out with 'blues and twos' (lights and sirens) fairly fast, but again, police attendance at a residence in the first instance in response to an alarm call is extremely unsual.

The only other things I can thing of are that I am currently challenging an expiation notice in court, and my (semi)activity on bluelight - and both of these seem very unlikely reasons.

So, would cops check out someone's place like this just because they are friends with someone who deals weed?
Your reference to expiation notice suggests you were challenging a simple cannabis charge in SA, would that be the case? In answer to your question, Police may well conduct basic intels or reccies. Whether or not that was what they were doing in this isntance is debatable.
 
Interesting thread.

You will answer what questions I have when I knock on your door....
 
Your reference to expiation notice suggests you were challenging a simple cannabis charge in SA, would that be the case? In answer to your question, Police may well conduct basic intels or reccies. Whether or not that was what they were doing in this isntance is debatable.

In actual fact I am challenging a ticket given to me for using a mobile phone while driving (I was scratching my ear)! The cops have clearly messed up on this and I have several aces to play in court - I suppose the question I was asking obliquely was whether the cops would actually go so far as to check out my house over something so petty. I don't have anything to do with illegal drugs - the only possible association I may have is through my mate, and from phone conversations I have with him anyone tapping would be pretty clear that I have nothing to do with his other 'business'. If that's the case, it's a bit worrying that one can accumulate a police 'file' on a perfectly law abiding citizen just because they hang out with someone who's doing something illegal.

If that's not the case, then it's probably just another weird event in my life that I will soon forget about ha ha ha.

Thanks for the prompt replies everyone, much appreciated. Once again, fortehlulz and everyone else - this has been an awesomely informative thread!

Cheers
 
it's a bit worrying that one can accumulate a police 'file' on a perfectly law abiding citizen just because they hang out with someone who's doing something illegal.

Welcome to the modern, targeted intelligence driven methodologies of modern law enforcement.
 
^^^Fortehlulz...dunno if this has been asked before, but if one can get copies of their credit rating etc.. to see if they have a black mark against their name. Can the same be done for your so called "police file" or would this be a strictly internal thing that would never see the light of day in the public arena. Cheers man....
 
The Clash said it best

"When they kick down your front door, how you gonna go? With your hands on your head or the trigger of your gun? "

End motherfucking quote!

Kill them all
 
^^^Fortehlulz...dunno if this has been asked before, but if one can get copies of their credit rating etc.. to see if they have a black mark against their name. Can the same be done for your so called "police file" or would this be a strictly internal thing that would never see the light of day in the public arena. Cheers man....

This is a hairy one.

An FOI request for access to police intelligence information will typically get knocked back by Vicpol first off, then yet again when you argue your case at VCAT, because the release of police intelligence information is 'contrary to the public interest'. That said, certain things are doable, and if one's wording is right and the requests correctly prepared, you can usually get the outline, if not the whole picture.

What it comes down to is;

- Prescisely what information it is you want.
- How badly you want the information - as you will end up in VCAT arguing about it.
- Whether you're prepared to play 'jigsaw', putting pieces of information together which you will be able to get, probably with large sections redacted.
 
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"But we need them!!" - Peanut farmers - Full Frontal 1996 Seven Network

"What for?"

"To put the tainted peanuts out of their mysery"
 
^^^Fortehlulz...dunno if this has been asked before, but if one can get copies of their credit rating etc.. to see if they have a black mark against their name. Can the same be done for your so called "police file" or would this be a strictly internal thing that would never see the light of day in the public arena. Cheers man....


I wrote a massive to reply to this (fuck, as I read it it's still massive), and am still in two minds about how much I should say, so I welcome mods to censor as they see fit.

Imagine for a moment that you know someone who works at the imaginary STDPOL, also imagine that a surprising amount of information is available to people with relatively low clearance levels. Imagine them being clearly surprised at how much much information they can access about themselves and their friends as part of their day to day job. Imagine that they have to be somewhat careful about how they access this information, but that it is all there - <I decided to edit this myself - all I need to say is that everything from the notes cops keep in their little beat books and more is stored> . Imagine alot of lax people working in places like this. Imagine this and you've got the plotline for a pretty boring book about how much information is kept on you every time you are in any way involved with the police, and how there are ALOT of people employed to access this information all day on behalf of prospective employers, charity agencies, banks and lenders, embassies, license authorities e.t.c. e.t.c.

Obviously, getting someone you know who has the authority to access your files is most likely illegal. But, there are other ways to find out less specific information. For instance, when applying to do volunteer work, depending on the work the charity organisation will need various levels of police clearance before they let you volunteer. I must stress that I am not saying to use reasons such as these to find out if you're a fuck up - because that is fucken horrible. But if you have volunteered for different types of Community Service in the past - particularly more sensitive CS (I'm not talking about cleaning median strips), then you have passed a police clearance check - and some of these checks are quite stringent. Visa applications to certain (few) countries also involve a request for detailed criminal history. Look at where you have traveled. Have you ever been denied a visa? Have you ever applied for a job that required a police clearance? What field was the job in? What I am saying is that you can work out if you have black marks (to a certain extent) through deduction.

On an unrelated note, those of you who are from Australia (decided not to tell which state) may recall a certain minister resigning his portfolio due to some past indiscretions that had been leaked to a newspaper - indiscretions that indicated that the minister may not entirely have been an appropriate role model to manage that portfolio. It was all highly publicized. What wasn't highly publicized was that these indiscretions were obtained by someone pretending to work for the said minister, and they rang STDPOL and flat out asked for them.

Sorry, I've edited alot of detail out of this - but I would like to make it clear that even for a law abiding citizen who has mainly stayed above the law (despite the occasional non-criminal fuckup) there is a surprisingly huge, detailed amount of information stored about you on a computer out there. I remember when I was younger my parents always telling me to just keep my nose clear of the police as much as possible - and I used to think they were paranoid, old commies.


"You're life's in a databank..."



PS: One more note about volunteers and clearance checks - PLEASE EVEN THINK ABOUT APPLYING TO BECOME A VOLUNTEER JUST TO SEE IF YOU CAN PASS A CLEARANCE CHECK!!!! It is a scummy thing to do. Furthermore, for the types of work where you need to pass higher clearances you need to have a lot of experience as a CS volunteer anyway. If you are the sort of person who wants to volunteer to help out with stuff just to see if you can pass a clearance check, you are definitely not the right sort of person to be offering your time to help fix fucked up situations.

Mods, all I was trying to say was that if you have participated in certain types of volunteer work, you will have had to receive a police clearance to do so. Once again, please censor as necessary.

Sorry for the mammoth post.

Peace out.
 
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Interesting post Bludda - thanks for your input. :)

I look forward to the rebuttals to disprove the 'case to paranoia' contained within. :)

No flaming guys!!!!
 
Obviously, getting someone you know who has the authority to access your files is most likely illegal.

Indeed it would be.

But, there are other ways to find out less specific information. For instance, when applying to do volunteer work, depending on the work the charity organisation will need various levels of police clearance before they let you volunteer.

There are a sum total of three levels of private sector clearance which I have ever come across.

1) A standard National Police Certificate. All that is displayed on such a certificate are 'discloseable outcomes' - non spent findings of guilt or convictions, as recorded by a court. No cautions. No warnings. No diversions. Victoria does have an interesting quirk in that it will also note on certificates if you are currently under investigation (we're not talking covert here, you'd have been interviewed) or have been released without charge pending summons.

2) A Working With Children Check. There are three categories (in Victoria at least) into which your application will fall; approved, show cause, or must refuse. Again, how your check goes is based on the findings of a court, however spent conviction legislation policy (as we don't have specific legislation for 'spent' convictions in Victoria) does not apply. The main scope of these checks is for sex offences, but also includes some drug and violence offences. While a whole lot of things are taken into account with such a check, as the Victorian Department of Justice will go through many sources of information, passing such a check will not provide any indication of anything ongoing or investigation, or any feedback unless you fall into the show cause or must refuse category. You are going to be quite aware upon review of the explanatory notes DOJ provides as to which category you fall into.

3) Melbourne's Crown Casino's 'Police Information' form. I've never seen anything like it. As distinct from a gaming licence, before Crown Casino will proceed with anything with you, they want you to fill out a form, specially prepared for Crown, which by some bizarre, unlegislated arrangement, upon your consent, lets them see absolutely EVERYTHING the police know, think, thought or have thought about you.


I must stress that I am not saying to use reasons such as these to find out if you're a fuck up - because that is fucken horrible. But if you have volunteered for different types of Community Service in the past - particularly more sensitive CS (I'm not talking about cleaning median strips), then you have passed a police clearance check - and some of these checks are quite stringent.

I'm aware of a guy with in excess of 30 findings of guilt, including 29 indictables (serious offences), who passed such checks to do similarly sensitive work. It is discretionary on the part of the agency or they may have an internal policy. Bottom line, they have no more access to your information than you will.

Visa applications to certain (few) countries also involve a request for detailed criminal history. Look at where you have traveled. Have you ever been denied a visa? Have you ever applied for a job that required a police clearance? What field was the job in? What I am saying is that you can work out if you have black marks (to a certain extent) through deduction.

When you apply for a Visa, you are supplying a National Police Certificate. It won't tell you anything you didn't already know (unless of course you once didn't rock up to Court on a summary offence summons and a conviction was recorded in your absence and you didn't realise, as does happen with monotonous regularity)



I would like to make it clear that even for a law abiding citizen who has mainly stayed above the law (despite the occasional non-criminal fuckup) there is a surprisingly huge, detailed amount of information stored about you on a computer out there. I remember when I was younger my parents always telling me to just keep my nose clear of the police as much as possible - and I used to think they were paranoid, old commies.

John Schumann of Redgum couldn't have put it more clearly in the song ASIO:

"You're life's in a databank..."

If you have ever been spoken to by the police in any capacity, come to police attention in any way, shape or form, (including having been a victim of crime and reported it), or through myriad other channels, you now have a Master Names Index number, a unique identifier which you will carry for life, and you are now in the federal Government system which tracks vehicles, DNA and fingerprints known as CrimTrac. Fact.

Bottom line - disclosable outcomes et al can be accessed by you at any time by coughing up the fee for your National Police Certificate, and volunteering for organisations or trying to go about visa checks etc etc are not a definitive or even an effective way of getting an indication as to police opinion of your character or conduct, which I believe was the thrust of the post I replied to.

No flaming, I'm just replying.
 
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