How to - Deal with LE.

[fortehlulz]

I read, here I think, that if nothing was found you didn't have to provide your details, is this true? Obviously ID is the first thing they ask for and record before the search. Is there any way to politely decline that request?

If you are out on the street, you are not obliged to provide your personal details unless police beleive that you can assist them with information regarding an indictable (serious) offence or they beleive you have committed any offence.

If you are on public transport, on licenced premises (a throwback to the days when we didn't have photo ID), driving a car or riding a bike, or certain other places, this doesn't apply. They may ask, and ye shall provide or be subject to penalty.

When they search through a person's wallet how can you stop them, respectfully, from recording your ID?

If they have no reasonable grounds (which you should ask about before ANYTHING) or consent, they shouldn't be searching shit. If they're field contacting you (eg searching you or you've consented and are therefore cooperating) your name, DOB and addy will be recorded.

 

[fortehlulz]

Would you happen to know off hand the trafficable quantity weights for some of the other popular drugs in Australia?

EDIT: I would prefer QLD, but any state is fine, I'm just curious

I am also finding this thread very interesting. Thanks

Some states have discretionary dosage units (DDUs) in addition to their weight quantities, eg pills or point bags, while others don't. Purely to prevent this from turning into a 'Is X weight trafficking?', I'd suggest you have find out what your state's drug legislation is, then reading it, in depth, at www.austlii.edu.au.

You want 'XXX state consolidated Acts' which may then require you to look at 'XXX state consolidated regulations'. If you have issues interpretting that, then feel free to post here.

 

[fortehlulz]

I think the point is to let them know they are on record so as to keep them on their best behavior.

Having a copper be proved a racist cocksucker and getting some piddly internal disciplinary action taken against him isn't a win if he found anything in the car. The tape recorder is a preemptive statement - play it straight down the line or you're in for it. So they will.... if they can't fuck with you, they'll fuck with someone else.

 

[fortehlulz]

Just wondering how cavity searches work. Lets say a sniffer dog sniffs you out or something at a club, does that give them a right to cavity search you? I know the police will definately strip search you but does that include a cavity search up the pooper? Im guessing they will be pretty agitaded and desperate to nail you if they cant find anything on you during a strip search.

Before I answer that, I'd like to know - are you asking a serious question or are you taking the piss?

 

[tyrael]

Even if he is taking the piss, I would (legitimately) like to know the answer to this. I recently went to an event and there were dogs at the entrance gates and I saw a police tent up (presumably for cavity searches). Wanted to know what would happen if someone was to get caught while entering said event.

 

[fortehlulz]

First...

As I can't reply to PMs yet, here's a reply to a PM I received.

can you tell me if the police do bug your phone how long as in months does the warrant alow them to listen to your calls and do they have time limits to how long they can run investigation (we are talking local c,i,u not feds or acc ).

A warrant will be issued once its signed off by a magistrate. The act which governs it is federal, its not a state by state thing. Your reference to CIU leads me to beleive you're in Vic. No time limits per se. What's applied for is usually granted, though such operations don't have unlimited resources.

and can they prove in court if the phone is not registered to you ie prepaid false registration can they prove that its you yappin

That depends on a whole lot of things. Do you use your 'work' sim card in the same phone as your personal sim card? Have you ever, even once, done so? Lent the handset to a friend? Called any personal contacts whose numbers might be cross ref'd to indentify you? An IMEI number is unique to your handset, and your calls are very identifiable on this basis, even if you swap sim cards. Even the SLIGHTEST bit of info tying such a sim card/phone number to you can and will be exploited.

also does call the ethical standards department and complaining about be pestered and abused for no reasons stop of make alot less frequent fure raids and investigation

If they're not justified, it will stop you being harassed. If they are justified, it'll continue. All that ESD or the Ombudsman or OPI will do is make sure they're justified in what they're doing.

 

[fortehlulz]

Just wondering how cavity searches work. Lets say a sniffer dog sniffs you out or something at a club, does that give them a right to cavity search you? I know the police will definately strip search you but does that include a cavity search up the pooper? Im guessing they will be pretty agitaded and desperate to nail you if they cant find anything on you during a strip search.

OK, seeing as this seems to be a valid question...

In Victoria, you are not obliged to submit to a forensic procedure (such as a cavity search) if requested. A copper can't glove up and stick it where the sun don't shine, it has to be done by a doctor. If they want to pursue it, they will have to apply for a warrant.

If it gets to this point, not only had you better have kept your trap shut, you'd also best be contacting a good lawyer, sharpish.

 

[baby boy]

great thread

how much info is needed for a warrant ..phone intercepts,surveilance or do they use gps now"cops" ....example if someone was speaking about cooking meth on the net does this give them enough to warrant a warrant or is talk just that...talk as on the net alot of people speak shit !

 

[tyrael]

Side note from the Moderators of Australian Drug Discussion.

this thread has grown very rapidly in short amount of time, but we would like to remind people that the information provided here may be innacurrate. If you want qualified legal advice the best people to talk to are community legal centres or organisations such as legal Aid in your city.

another note is that there are also legislative differneces between states and also federally, very few people are qualified to give advice across all juristictions in australia (and usually they are high court justices). Bit this should not deter people from asking questions and doing a little of their own research into the matters discussed here
madmick19

OK, seeing as this seems to be a valid question...

In Victoria, you are not obliged to submit to a forensic procedure (such as a cavity search) if requested. A copper can't glove up and stick it where the sun don't shine, it has to be done by a doctor. If they want to pursue it, they will have to apply for a warrant.

If it gets to this point, not only had you better have kept your trap shut, you'd also best be contacting a good lawyer, sharpish.

Does this apply to SA as well? Also does it apply to strip searches? If warranted, can a police officer, take you somewhere (ie, a tent at an event) and perform a strip search without consent/without a warrant.

 

[fortehlulz]

baby boy- A warrant requires for telephone interception must include an affadavit (sworn statement) outlining the details you'll find in Section 42 of the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/taaa1979410/s42.html

That'll give you the basics.

In terms of a Victorian Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981, a warrant must be signed off by a police member of the rank of sergeant or above, and must relate to activity either presently occurring or which will occur in the next 72 hours. Find a proforma of the application for a warrant for your info here -

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/dpacsa1981422/sch10.html

 

[fortehlulz]

Does this apply to SA as well? Also does it apply to strip searches? If warranted, can a police officer, take you somewhere (ie, a tent at an event) and perform a strip search without consent/without a warrant.

Forensic medical procedure in SA requires no warrant, just authorisation of a sergeant or above per section 81, Summary Offences Act 1953 SA. An intrusive medical procedure (eg, bend over and smile for the guvnah!) must be done by a doctor or nurse.

With regard to the strip search, provided they had reasonable grounds and it was done in private, a search is a search, provided they had reasonable grounds (eg, PAD dog sat down and wagged near you).

 

[baby boy]

Awesome thread

 

[static_mind]

Iv got the opinion that if something happend to me that I thought was wrong then reporting it to the government is pretty pointless. Druggies dont have any credit against a cop. Iv always though it I could itd be more effective at getting action if I were to go to the media, say A current affair or something.

If I had been unjustly searched or something and I had evidence of it (such as a tape), would you believe it to be more effective to go to the media and have them go into damage control?

 

[fortehlulz]

If I had been unjustly searched or something and I had evidence of it (such as a tape), would you believe it to be more effective to go to the media and have them go into damage control?

The media is a two edged sword - they couldn't give a fuck less about who's right or wrong, they just want to sell more ad time.

In Victoria, the ESD, the winners who deal with complaints against police, are police themselves. As you can guess, nothing ever gets leaked or swept under the rug when police investigate police

An external, unbiased investigator is what you need. If you're serious about the issue being dealt with, tell NOONE that you have the evidence and correspond with your state's Ombudsman.

 

[person]

While either 'smart arse' or 'knows a lawyer' will be going through their head... what're they gonna do while being recorded?

Dont you actually have to state to whoever that you are using a tape recorder!? wouldnt stuff like that get thrown out in court anyways? maybe wear a tshirt ('you are being recorded') to cover your back!?

*cool thread.

*heard that oz put a new law where kiwis get strip searched either when entering or leaving oz!? lol the only time i was strip searched was leaving holland to auckland, would be interested when I go to melbourne to see the folks next easter heh..

 

[fortehlulz]

To address what seems to be a fairly common question, 'Why are you doing this?'

Well, its not just for 'teh lulz'. Its about awareness.

People seem to beleive that police are some omnipotent government oppression machine - well, at least part of that statement may indeed be fact. They are, however, constrained by laws and regulations, which anyone can go and read - the reality of the situation, however, is that considering that this is their JOB, they spend all day actually applying these laws and regulations, day after day, year after year, and over time, little ways of sneaking around laws and regulations which are designed to keep the potential to abuse power become apparent, are taught through word of mouth, and become more prevalent. There's no manual on how to 'phonebook' someone, so how do you think everyone knows about it?

Anyone here read 'Freakonomics'? The KKK in the U.S. was made to look like an utter joke when all their stupid little secrets were revealed on a kids radio program, levelling the playing field and taking away the mystique. That's what this is about.

I've had a good many friends over the years who have allowed their lives to be destroyed by drugs. Some have died, some have ended up jailed for stupidity which occurred while under the influence, some have lost their careers, others have ended up with criminal records so serious that they'll never get any job above the minimum wage [admittedly, that one made the choices and did deserve it, child tampering dog that he is]. I have played ball with a whole lot of stuff over the years, and I've been lucky enough to survive.

There is more to life than worrying about police fucking with you for the choices you make which can't hurt anyone but you. This is my contribution to helping people achieve that.

 

[Toefur]

I've heard of drunks being taken into custody for the night or untill they sober up, so my question is this.

If your out and noticably fucked up, are the cops able to take you into custody untill your straight again?

 

[phase_dancer]

*heard that oz put a new law where kiwis get strip searched either when entering or leaving oz!?

My 80 year old mother was searched when leaving Aus for NZ a month or so ago. She was asked to remove items of clothing and shoes, which can be difficult at the best of times due to her advanced arthritis. Not only did she feel humiliated, she's also experiencing lasting pain in her shoulder from trying to remove her shoes while standing.

Non invasive forms of screening need to be introduced IMHO. It is unacceptable that aged/ disabled people are subjected to such indignity.

fortehlulz, thank you for your informative comments and answering all these Qs. I thought about asking you to prepare an FAQ for this forum, but to be successful it would have to be updated regularly to reflect any legislative changes, and that might be a bit much to ask

 

[fortehlulz]

I've heard of drunks being taken into custody for the night or untill they sober up, so my question is this.

If your out and noticably fucked up, are the cops able to take you into custody untill your straight again?

Section 13, Summary Offences Act 1966 Vic. Has its own arrest power. If you're drunk in public (which includes a bar, or out on the street), you can be arrested and lodged in safe custody.

 

[fortehlulz]

Dont you actually have to state to whoever that you are using a tape recorder!? wouldnt stuff like that get thrown out in court anyways? maybe wear a tshirt ('you are being recorded') to cover your back!?

If you are a party to the conversation being recorded, you don't have to inform them. I'll dig through the Listening Devices Act for specifics later.

Police are starting to wear voice recording watches and I'm aware of one case interstate where an indecent language charge was brought on the basis of the recording.