How to - Deal with LE.

[fortehlulz]

Interested to know if fortehlulz knows of any Aus precedent for this. Is there any Aus case law that deals with websites hosted overseas? Last time I looked there was none, or at least nothing relevant.

What information are we specifically referring to? Don't forget, all the info going both ways has to routed through your friendly local ISP.

 

[fortehlulz]

question, lets say X had an emtpy baggy on him, and X already consumed his disco bikkies and for some reason got caught out by a sniffer dog and searched. They found the emtpy baggy with alittle bit of residue, would X get charged or let off?

Members of CBD and railways tasked groups in Melbourne used to (and presumably, still do) nail people found with used syringes for possess. Why? Possession of that little bit of hammer still in the pin or the residue on the plunger. So it is possible and it does happen in practice... just how often it happens is another issue.

 

[static_mind]

The time when I was 15 they questioned me on the street for suspicion of vandalism wil that still be in there computer?

What about the time they pulled over and started questioning me because I looked dodgy (then made fun of me because I had like an hour walk ahead of me)?

Still on there computer?

 

[fortehlulz]

The time when I was 15 they questioned me on the street for suspicion of vandalism wil that still be in there computer?

What about the time they pulled over and started questioning me because I looked dodgy (then made fun of me because I had like an hour walk ahead of me)?

Still on there computer?

Yes to both. Did they IBR you (radio check your name and DOB)? If they questioned you, its what's called a 'field contact' and was recorded.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Side note from the Moderators of Australian Drug Discussion.

this thread has grown very rapidly in short amount of time, but we would like to remind people that the information provided here may be innacurrate. If you want qualified legal advice the best people to talk to are community legal centres or organisations such as legal Aid in your city.

another note is that there are also legislative differneces between states and also federally, very few people are qualified to give advice across all juristictions in australia (and usually they are high court justices). Bit this should not deter people from asking questions and doing a little of their own research into the matters discussed here
madmick19




What's your advice on consenting to a search of your car? If you refuse, are they likely to use his as reasonable suspicion to go ahead and do it anyway? And what restrictions are there on searching, I remember someone saying once that there were some limits to what they could do in a search without a warrant.

 

[tyrael]

What's your advice on consenting to a search of your car? If you refuse, are they likely to use his as reasonable suspicion to go ahead and do it anyway? And what restrictions are there on searching, I remember someone saying once that there were some limits to what they could do in a search without a warrant.

I seem to remember reading (on here I think) that, without a warrant, the police can only search parts of the car which don't require them to open anything. Eg, console/glove box/boot. I'm not sure how truthful this is though....../.

 

[fortehlulz]

What's your advice on consenting to a search of your car? If you refuse, are they likely to use his as reasonable suspicion to go ahead and do it anyway? And what restrictions are there on searching, I remember someone saying once that there were some limits to what they could do in a search without a warrant.

Know your rights! They cannot have reasonable grounds purely on the basis that you have declined the request to search the vehicle.

If you consent, you've consented. They can and will go to town. Searches must be recorded in writing.

One of the main things to remember, as previously stated, is that if you have pissed them off, they will find a pretext to search your car. Simple as that. This goes one of three ways -

1) You have nothing and they've slowed you down and demonstrated how l33t they are
2) You have something and they fuck you right up

Here's one which is reserved for those who have been smartarses and despite knowing you're up to something, they can't prove it.
3) You have nothing... and from somewhere, something tiny and cheap but very legally damaging, such as a single round of .22 ammunition, appears in your car in plain sight. Amazing! Your day is now REALLY getting ruined.

Here's a case study on refusing consent to search.

Police member, having gone through all the usual formalities after licence checks etc: We'd like your permission to search this vehicle. Do you consent to that?

Person A: Whaddya wanna look in me cah for brah?

Police member: Do you consent or not sir?

Person A: Git fucked brah yarnt searchin nuffin

Police member: Sir, you're becoming abusive, exit the vehicle now

Person A: GIT FUCKED YA FUCKIN PIG CUNT FUCK!

Police member reaches for pepper spray. Fade to black

Now, let's have a look at another case study

Police member: We'd like your permission to search this vehicle. Do you consent to that?

Person B produces mobile phone or microcasette recorder and hits record: No, I decline to consent to you searching my vehicle. Please provide your name, registered number, rank and station details, as your are required to upon request, before we proceed further.

Police member, extremely shocked, complies

Police member: May I ask why you decline?

Person B: If you had any legitimate reason to search this vehicle, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? I decline your request for consent to search.

One thing you must keep in mind - being in a high crime area without a plausible excuse, combined with prior history, may well be reasonable grounds to search. Never push your luck if you can avoid it.

[EDIT: Chopping out the last sentence; keep your advice to personal possession. If people are moving things of an "amusing nature" regularly, BL is not here to help them. hoptis]

 

[fortehlulz]

I seem to remember reading (on here I think) that, without a warrant, the police can only search parts of the car which don't require them to open anything. Eg, console/glove box/boot. I'm not sure how truthful this is though....../.

Right... so going by that logic, considering the car's doors need to be openned, that rules out the whole car.

 

[scattered_raver]

Members of CBD and railways tasked groups in Melbourne used to (and presumably, still do) nail people found with used syringes for possess. Why? Possession of that little bit of hammer still in the pin or the residue on the plunger. So it is possible and it does happen in practice... just how often it happens is another issue.

Being caught with syringes goes under improper disposal or some such, saw someone getting prosecuted for it.

 

[tyrael]

Right... so going by that logic, considering the car's doors need to be openned, that rules out the whole car.

I didn't think it was correct, just that I had read it. Did sound fishy to me. lol.

 

[fortehlulz]

Being caught with syringes goes under improper disposal or some such, saw someone getting prosecuted for it.

That sounds like a regulatory, as opposed to criminal, offence to me. I'd love to know who prosecuted it.

 

[static_mind]

If im pulled over and flat out refuse to answer there questions (except the ones im required to) and refuse to concent to a search but do so the entire time politly and im not rude.

Will that annoy them enough to "find" a reason?

I hear sometimes they can smell weed as an excuse to search anyones car?

If in the event they do search and find nothing is it worth makeing a complaint?

 

[fortehlulz]

THanks for that, just one more thing before I leave you alone, if the baggy was completely clean with no residue what so ever, could you still be charged?

If you were to say 'I found it on the ground' you could be charged with theft (no shit, if you didn't attempt to return it, you've dishonestly appropriated that bag with the intent of permanently depriving the owner of its use :D), though highly unlikely.

Similarly, possessing anything which is intended to be used in the process of preparing a drug for sale is an offence per Section 71A Drugs Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981. If there's no residue, there's no way you're getting done though... unless you tell them what it was for, or they have video evidence.

 

[fortehlulz]

If im pulled over and flat out refuse to answer there questions (except the ones im required to) and refuse to concent to a search but do so the entire time politly and im not rude.

Will that annoy them enough to "find" a reason?

Depends... if you're being smart, they'll find a reason or canary (unroadworthy) you - I'm aware of people in 2-3 year old, stock cars who decided to get smart, so they were canaried for their trouble.

I hear sometimes they can smell weed as an excuse to search anyones car?

If in the event they do search and find nothing is it worth makeing a complaint?

The smell of cannabis would indeed be reasonable grounds to search a car. Thats the problem with smell - no evidence, no way of later verifying it.

If you beleive you're being harassed, go for the complaint. Complain to the force's internal discipline unit, the independant police watch dog (if your state has one) and your state's ombudsman. If nothing else, you're unlikely to be fucked with for no reason again.

 

[scattered_raver]

That sounds like a regulatory, as opposed to criminal, offence to me. I'd love to know who prosecuted it.

The magistrate >.<

Also a good friend of mine got busted during a raid for having a used fit on the table for the same reason.

nb. Ive had my entire car and person searched, on 'suspicion of drugs or weapons' or some pathetic shit. The second time my car was getting searched i asked if i needed to give consent, copper said no, if they suspect there is ANYTHING illegal or dangerous in the car for any reason, its all theirs. (Btw second time was for going around a corner too fast, so you can be caught for anything and searched..)

Long story short, dont keep anything in your car if you can help it.

 

[fortehlulz]

The magistrate >.<

Magistrates don't prosecute. The Police, D.P.P., or other government departments or councils prosecute offences. Magistrates oversee the cases.

nb. Ive had my entire car and person searched, on 'suspicion of drugs or weapons' or some pathetic shit. The second time my car was getting searched i asked if i needed to give consent, copper said no, if they suspect there is ANYTHING illegal or dangerous in the car for any reason, its all theirs. (Btw second time was for going around a corner too fast, so you can be caught for anything and searched..)

You can't be searched for speeding. Searches must be carried out under specific powers granted by specific legislation. You'd be well within your rights to ask what they beleived you had, why they beleived you had it, and what legislation they were using.

Do you have any form for drugs or weapons, or mix with anyone who does frequently - as in, someone who may've been under police scrutiny in which you may have been identified and looked into?

Or... they thought you were an idiot and treated you as such.

Long story short, dont keep anything in your car if you can help it.

Couldn't agree with you more. The number of idiots who carry baseball bats, knives, extendable batons and small pharmacies in their cars astonishes me

(FWIW, Maglites, being a metal pipe loaded with lead filled batteries, hit harder! :D)

 

[Mr Blonde]

Police member: We'd like your permission to search this vehicle. Do you consent to that?

Person B produces mobile phone or microcasette recorder and hits record: No, I decline to consent to you searching my vehicle. Please provide your name, registered number, rank and station details, as your are required to upon request, before we proceed further.

Police member, extremely shocked, complies

Police member: May I ask why you decline?

Person B: If you had any legitimate reason to search this vehicle, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? I decline your request for consent to search.

Shall I ever be pulled over I'll be sure to use this. Thanks for the tip.

Lol at the story before this one though.

 

[fortehlulz]

The ability to give someone the heavy 'we can do this the easy way or the hard way' sorta disappears when police are confronted with a tape recorder.

On an equally hilarious anecdote, I'm aware that recently, a young shit head was pulled over on a Melbourne freeway doing a good deal over the limit in his old man's brand new merc, doped up to the eyeballs. He was yanked from the car, and it was searched, yielding a firearm... so, speeding in a FAST car, high as a kite, armed, and lippy - winning combo.

What the police didn't realise was that when you open the driver's door on this particular merc (there's more to it than this, I'm sure) an audio recorder in the door activates... needless to say, it would appear the police prosecutor may end up entering a nolle (no prosecution) on this one :D

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Any idea on what compromising conversation the tape recorder picked up?

 

[scattered_raver]

^ my guess probs the kid getting thrown around/procedures not being properly followed

source for fits thing: http://www.health.qld.gov.au/goodhealthintnq/topics/needles.asp

Needles and Syringes - Safe Disposal

The Law

In Australia it is not an offence to possess sterile needles and syringes. However it is an offence to dispose of injecting equipment in an unsafe manner.

You can't be searched for speeding. Searches must be carried out under specific powers granted by specific legislation. You'd be well within your rights to ask what they beleived you had, why they beleived you had it, and what legislation they were using.

Do you have any form for drugs or weapons, or mix with anyone who does frequently - as in, someone who may've been under police scrutiny in which you may have been identified and looked into?

Or... they thought you were an idiot and treated you as such.

I asked if i needed to consent, and also asked why i was stopped etc. I had 3 others in the car though which im guessing gave them enough bullshit to warrant a search.