How to convice my girlfriend that there is nothing wrong with psychedelics

[Gavin83]

If your trying to convince your girlfriend to use any drug when she doesn't particularly want to then you really shouldn't even be with her. Pushing people into doing drugs when they aren't personally ready for it is sick and irresponsible.

However since your original post is a little unclear I'll presume you just want to convince her that your personal use of Psychedelics is fine. In this case I'd just let her know your safe and as suggested let her sit in with you while tripping. However if she is willing to look down on you for your drug use she isn't even worth being with. I hate people who look down on drug users like they're some form of sub human, especially when they drink themselves so I'd simply give her the option of living with your drug use or getting rid. Just remember though, if she doesn't except it you'll have to make a decision between her and the drugs. In my experience even if she doesn't actively make you choose she will hold it against you and it will come out in arguments and the like, so you'll have to make a choice. Personally I'd choose the drugs but it's your relationship.

If you can't tell Im of the opinion that once someone mind is set, particularly surrounding the circumstances of your girlfriend it can't be undone. Good luck though.

 

[burn out]

When you drink beers, and the high goes away, after that you are never the same.

omg this is too funny. never the same after drinking a few beers?

You have done permanent damage to your brain and organs.

lets see a scientific journal article that states drinking a few beers (and not a few beers every day, im talking about as a one time or occassional thing) does permanent damage to your brain and organs.

You have also depleted Serotonin in your brain that can lead to depression.

It is a scientific fact.

ok, let's see these "facts" then.

When you smoke cannabis or eat mushrooms, and the high goes away, you are exactly the same, no permanent damage is done, except for to your lungs, in the case of Cannabis, and none at all if you eat Cannabis.

You argument is the exact opposite of the truth.

wrong again.




Long-term abuse of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive constituent of marijuana, produces behavioral and metabolic signs of frontal cortical dysfunction in humans; these effects persist even after short-term abstinence.

http://cannabis.net/dopamine/index.html

The cognitive deficiencies seem to persist after withdrawal. The toxicity of marijuana has been underestimated for a long time, since recent findings revealed delta9-THC-induced cell death with shrinkage of neurons and DNA fragmentation in the hippocampus.

http://cannabis.net/canbrain.html

. THC is neurotoxic at concentrations as low as 0.5-1.0 µM, which are comparable to THC levels measured in human plasma after consumption of marijuana cigarettes.

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/14/5322?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&#B73

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

I'd offer her half a dose and tell her she'll love having sex. You can also mention that Dr Andy Weil wrote in one of his books that LSD is perfectly safe if you're of sound mind and among good friends.

Be sure to give her some love too, plenty of passionate fore-play.

However, it may backfire and she'll see the devil in you, no kidding!

(If you wanna have a good time with me, send a PM.)

 

[burn out]

http://www.currentseparations.com/issues/18-1/cs18-1d.pdf


http://alcoholism.about.com/od/brain/Brain_Damage_and_Alcohol_Consumption.htm


http://www.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196678,00.html

great tactic, post a whole bunch of largely irrelevant information that doesn't even address any of the points i made. 8) nothing in any of that said drinking a few beers permanently damages your brain or organs. furthermore, your study on marijuana DID say they found some cognitive impairments in long term users. in addtion, one four year old study which only used some cognitive function tests is hardly a bases for concluding that marijuana doesn't damage your brain, espcially when i posted more recent and relevant research showing you that scientists have observed thc induced neuronal damage. thc is neurotoxic to the hippocampus. that is scientific fact. heavy marijuana use can aslo have a number of other adverse health affects, just like heavy alcohol use. but drinking a glass or two of wine once in while does not cause permanent damage to your brain and your organs like you stated and smoking marijuana does not leave your brain unafffected either. you were wrong on both points and none the research you posted provided any real evidence suggesting otherwise. you know you've won a debate when your opponent goes on a rampage posting information that has nothign to do with the argument at hand. marijuana doesn't cause lung cancer you say? what in god's name does that have to do with whether a few beers permamnently damage your brain?

 

[lurkerguy]

Let me break it down for you:

Brain. damage. is. a. common. and. potentially. severe. consequence. of. long-term. heavy. alcohol. consumption.

Even.
mild-to-moderate.
drinking.
can.
adversely.
affect.
cognitive.
functioning.

Both short-
and long-term
alcohol exposures
also
affect the serotonin receptors that
convert the chemical signal produced
by serotonin into functional changes in the signal-receiving cell.

The brain's serotonin neurotransmitter system has been associated with a variety of psychiatric disorders, including depression, anxiety, and anti-social personality disorder.

Just admit your ignoring the links.

They address every single question you asked.

 

[lurkerguy]

The Journal of Neuroscience, July 15, 1998, 18 (14):5322-5332

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/14/5322?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&#B73

Your study is 9 years old!

Mine is much more recent.

6 years more recent to be exact.

The Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, July 2003

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm

While you will find conflicting studies on whether or not long term Cannabis use causes mild brain damage, you will not find a single study that suggests long term alcohol use doesn't cause serious brain damage.

 

[burn out]

Let me break it down for you:

Brain. damage. is. a. common. and. potentially. severe. consequence. of. long-term. heavy. alcohol. consumption.

i said nothing about long term heavy alcohol consumption, i said that if his girlfriend is a heavy alcohol user than you have a point. but we don't know the manner in which she uses alcohol, therefore your point is null and void until we recieve further information.

Even.
mild-to-moderate.
drinking.
can.
adversely.
affect.
cognitive.
functioning.

yes, i was previously aware of this. but what is mild drinking? 1 beer a day? 2 beers a day? 2 beers every 3 months? without a definition, your point is null and void.

Both short-
and long-term
alcohol exposures
also
affect the serotonin receptors that
convert the chemical signal produced
by serotonin into functional changes in the signal-receiving cell.

it says nothing about the short term affects resulting in permanent brain or organ damage. 8) of course consumption of alcohol has short term affects on your brain, if it didn't, alcohol wouldn't be psychoactive. do you think marijuana doesn't have short term affects on your neurotransmitter function?

The brain's serotonin neurotransmitter system has been associated with a variety of psychiatric disorders, including depression, anxiety, and anti-social personality disorder.

long term marijuana use is also associated with a variety of psychiatric disorders. do i havet post that research for you to?

Just admit your ignoring the links.

They address every single question you asked.

i responded to every statement and explained why they didn't address my questions.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I agree, keep fucking this girl, but be on the look out for a more rational girl to have a relationship with.

LMAO! As if being against drugs is "irrational".

 

[lurkerguy]

i said nothing about long term heavy alcohol consumption, i said that if his girlfriend is a heavy alcohol user than you have a point. but we don't know the manner in which she uses alcohol, therefore your point is null and void until we recieve further information.




yes, i was previously aware of this. but what is mild drinking? 1 beer a day? 2 beers a day? 2 beers every 3 months? without a definition, your point is null and void.



it says nothing about the short term affects resulting in permanent brain or organ damage. 8) of course consumption of alcohol has short term affects on your brain, if it didn't, alcohol wouldn't be psychoactive. do you think marijuana doesn't have short term affects on your neurotransmitter function?



long term marijuana use is also associated with a variety of psychiatric disorders. do i havet post that research for you to?



i responded to every statement and explained why they didn't address my questions.

AMA Report Shows Alcohol May Cause Long-Term Brain Damage
By Michael Stroh
THE BALTIMORE SUN -- Teens who joke about killing brain cells while downing beers may find the idea a bit less funny when they grow up.

A new report, released Monday by the American Medical Association, shows that adolescents and young adults who drink may risk long-lasting brain damage, especially when it comes to learning, memory and critical thinking.

And in some cases it may take as little as a few beers to cause harm, according to the report, which synthesizes nearly two decades of research on alcohol and the brain.

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V122/N62/drinking.62w.html

 

[lurkerguy]

LMAO! As if being against drugs is "irrational".

Yes, being against "drugs" is highly irrational.

The very statement that you are "against drugs" is an irrational statement.

It shows a lack of understanding concerning the definition of the word "drug" for starters.

 

[burn out]

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V122/N62/drinking.62w.html

oh come on, this is a joke. give me real scientific journal articles, not some sensationalist news article. it doesn't specify whether they mean a single exposure of a few beers or a few beers repeated. its also talking about drinking during adolescents, not in general. you are greatly over exagerating the negative affects of small amounts of alcohol.

according to wikipediea:

Research finds an association between better cognition or thinking ability and moderate drinking. "After adjustment for age, education, and smoking status, men with CVD/diabetes and low-to-moderate alcohol intake had a significantly lower risk for poor cognitive function (MMSE < or = 25) than abstainers (odds ratios of 0.3 for less than one drink and 0.2 for one to two drinks per day). Alcohol intake was not associated with cognitive decline. … Alcohol may result in an acute beneficial effect on cognitive function among those with CVD/diabetes. However, selection bias and unmeasured confounding should be of concern when evaluating these results."[53] "We report a positive association between moderate alcohol intake among middle-aged men and subsequent cognitive performance in later life. However, it is possible that the health risks associated with drinking outweight any potential benefits for many elderly persons."[54] "These findings suggest that, among women, moderate alcohol consumption may have a beneficial effect on cognitive function."[55] "… although a number of studies have noted a measurable diminution in neuropsychologic parameters in habitual consumers of moderate amounts of ethanol, others have not found such changes. Recent studies have also noted some positive effects of moderate ethanol consumption on cognitive performance in the aging human."[56]

 

[lurkerguy]

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/14/5322?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&#B73

Your study is 9 years old!

Mine is much more recent.

6 years more recent to be exact.


http://www.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm

Still waiting on a response to that one.

 

[lurkerguy]

oh come on, this is a joke. give me real scientific journal articles, not some sensationalist news article. it doesn't specify whether they mean a single exposure of a few beers or a few beers repeated. its also talking about drinking during adolescents, not in general. you are greatly over exagerating the negative affects of small amounts of alcohol.

according to wikipediea:

Research finds an association between better cognition or thinking ability and moderate drinking. "After adjustment for age, education, and smoking status, men with CVD/diabetes and low-to-moderate alcohol intake had a significantly lower risk for poor cognitive function (MMSE < or = 25) than abstainers (odds ratios of 0.3 for less than one drink and 0.2 for one to two drinks per day). Alcohol intake was not associated with cognitive decline. … Alcohol may result in an acute beneficial effect on cognitive function among those with CVD/diabetes. However, selection bias and unmeasured confounding should be of concern when evaluating these results."[53] "We report a positive association between moderate alcohol intake among middle-aged men and subsequent cognitive performance in later life. However, it is possible that the health risks associated with drinking outweight any potential benefits for many elderly persons."[54] "These findings suggest that, among women, moderate alcohol consumption may have a beneficial effect on cognitive function."[55] "… although a number of studies have noted a measurable diminution in neuropsychologic parameters in habitual consumers of moderate amounts of ethanol, others have not found such changes. Recent studies have also noted some positive effects of moderate ethanol consumption on cognitive performance in the aging human."[56]

However, selection bias and unmeasured confounding should be of concern when evaluating these results."[53]

However, it is possible that the health risks associated with drinking outweight any potential benefits for many elderly persons."

although a number of studies have noted a measurable diminution in neuropsychologic parameters in habitual consumers of moderate amounts of ethanol,

Talk about shaky studies.

Your dismissing my link to an American Medical Association study, and posting a Wikipedia entry as a rebuttal?

Are you kidding?

That link is from the AMA, it is not a "sensationalist news article".

Last time I checked, the AMA was more credible than Wikipedia.

 

[lurkerguy]

The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. Otherwise, scores on thinking tests were similar to those who don't smoke marijuana, according to a new analysis of 15 previous studies.

In those studies, some 700 regular marijuana users were compared with 484 non-users on various aspects of brain function -- including reaction time, language and motor skills, reasoning ability, memory, and the ability to learn new information.

Surprising Finding

"We were somewhat surprised by our finding, especially since there's been a controversy for some years on whether long-term cannabis use causes brain damage," says lead researcher and psychiatrist Igor Grant, MD.

"I suppose we expected to see some differences in people who were heavy users, but in fact the differences were very minimal."

Source: The Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, July 2003

That is a study from a peer reviewed scientific journal, and it is more recent than your study.

So far:

You have dismissed a 2003 research article from a peer reviewed science journal, supported by 15+ other studies, including studies from Harvard Medical School, in favor of a single 1998 research article from a scientific peer reviewed article.

Even more ridiculous, you dismiss an AMA study using over 20 years of research, in favor of a Wikipedia entry.

 

[lurkerguy]

Here is a 2005 peer reviewed article, refuting the 1998 article you posted:
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.c...al,12,42;linkingpublicationresults,1:102425,1

2004 peer reviewed articles:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=255433
http://www.hnrc.ucsd.edu/publications_pdf/348art2003.pdf

2003 peer reviewed articles:
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/166/7/887

2002 peer reviewed articles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11576028&dopt=Abstract

Background. Results of previous research examining long-term residual effects of marijuana use on cognition are conflicting. A major methodological limitation of prior studies is the inability to determine whether differences between users and non-users are due to differences in genetic vulnerability preceding drug use or due to the effects of the drug.

Conclusions. Out of the numerous measures that were administered, only one significant difference was noted between marijuana-using twins and their non-using co-twins on cognitive functioning. The results indicate an absence of marked long-term residual effects of marijuana use on cognitive abilities.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=255433

 

[lurkerguy]

Some more peer reviewed studies you might want to look into:

"Comparison of cannabidiol, antioxidants and diuretics in reversing binge ethanol-induced neurotoxicity."
Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics. 2005
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/c...nd&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

"Cannabidiol prevents cerebral infarction."
Stroke. 2005
http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/36/5/1071

"Post-ischemic treatment with cannabidiol prevents electroencephalographic flattening, hyperlocomotion and neuronal injury in gerbils."
Neuroscience Letters. 2003
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12850548&dopt=Citation

"Neuroprotection by Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active compound in marijuana, against ouabain-induced in vivo excitotoxicity."
Journal of Neuroscience. 2001
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/21/17/6475

"Cannabidiol and Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol are neuroprotective antioxidants."
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 1998
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/14/8268

 

[lurkerguy]

15. In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating ten raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death.

16. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care."

FRANCIS L. YOUNG, Administrative Law Judge for the DEA

 

[Samadhi]

Seriously, i think if you want to start posting articles, you need to take this to one of the drug discussion forums.

 

[Beatlebot]

Yeah, you need to settle down lurker guy This is SLR after all, but I think no matter where you are having a discussion, you just have to accept sometimes that people are not always going to agree with you and leave it at that.

My own personal opinion is that I love acid, hate mushrooms. That's just the way it goes for me and while I'd be happy to eat some acid again, I doubt I'll ever go back to mushrooms. Psilcybin seems to make me feel like crap and give me very negative feelings while acid does not, go figure. I really don't think that means I need to try mushrooms again in a different setting, or that I was somehow taking them wrong, they're just not for me and I won't do them again.

Different things happen for different people. Psychedelics are a very personal experience, and it's extremely presumptuous to make judgement calls on somebody else's personal experience.

I think nobody should be pressured into taking a trip. Trips can be scary at times and I think this would only be magnified if it was something you didn't really want to do in the first place.

 

[burn out]

So far:

You have dismissed a 2003 research article from a peer reviewed science journal, supported by 15+ other studies, including studies from Harvard Medical School, in favor of a single 1998 research article from a scientific peer reviewed article.

Even more ridiculous, you dismiss an AMA study using over 20 years of research, in favor of a Wikipedia entry.

i havent dismissed the article, or anything in favor of wikipedia. the only thing i dismissed was your ridiculous claims that drinking a few beers causes permanent brain and organ damage. so far none of the articles youve posted have explicitly stated that. you can post all the research on alcohol and neurotoxicity you want but it's totally irrelevant until you actually post something that is contrary to the point i am arguing.

also, youre clearly cherry picking studies on marijuana, only posting the positive ones. i can post several studies which contradict your findings but there's no need because none of your studies actually support what you initially said. you haven't proven that marijuana leaves your brain totally unaffected and you havent proven that a few beers cause permanent brain and organ damage. studies which only measure brain damage based on tests of cognitive function are innaccurate because a lack of easily measurable cognitive deficits doesn't prove a lack of affect.