How the hell do you develop a sensitivity to MDPV?

[Altered Perception]

I bought a bag with clear crystals thinking it was meth but it turned out to be some very potent type of RC full of nasty side effects resembling MDVP. But the odd thing when I first started using it I wasn't getting much adverse reactions but then unexpectedly the side effects got worse and worse with every day. Almost like a person who develops and allergic reaction to a substance. How is that even possible???

So I'm baffled by this and wondering if anyone knows what causes it? But here are the details of what happened leading up to my ambulance ride.:

I have a medical condition known as "Autonomic Dysfunction" so I am sensitive to all chemicals that stimulate or depress the Autonomic Nervous System. But I found a loophole where if I take very small amounts below the therapeutic dose everyday, I can develop a tolerance and eventually desensitize myself slowly towards any psychoactive drug and and work my way up to an active dose. Or so I thought until I came across this dam MDVP.....

DAY 1 -
So the first day I began my desensitization process with a flea sized dose. The first thing I noticed it when it kicked in is an uncomfortable increase in temperature, cold hands and feet. I felt a surprisingly overwhelmed by the stimulating effects, especially at such a small dose. Luckily I didn't get any problems with heart rate of blood pressure. Overall it was a successful start.

DAY 2 -
Took the same flea sized dose. Once again I was tweaking hard but also accompanied with feeling hot and flushed along with some chills and muscle spasms. But Again I did not have any problems with Heart or Blood Pressure.

DAY 3 -
Took the same dose again. I started feeling confident that if I keep this up everyday the side effects would slowly begin to disappear as tolerance kicks. This time my temperature continued to rise until I was uncomfortably hot and I ended up under the cold shower trying to cool down. Blood pressure stayed normal but there was some increase in my heart rate as my temperature increased. But I was able to control it with betablockers.

DAY 4 -
Despite the same low dose, the side effects continue to increase. More chills and increased temperature, more tachycardia but eventually as the day progresses the effects of the drug completely wears off and everything settles down. Or so I thought.... 10 hours after initial dose, just as I am lying in bed ready for sleep I suddenly started feeling my entire body tense up, all my veins feel constricted. So I checked my blood pressure and its dangerously high but my heart rate is very low. I look at the clock and realize its now been over 10 hours since I had taken the dose. So now I'm thinking "wtf is going on? what is this secondary effect??? it should have been long over by now?!" I couldn't make any sense of what was happening to me because the peak effects were long over. I hadn't even felt this sick during the peak effects of the drug.

Every few minutes a wave of hypertension and agitation would sweep over me. I have never had a panic attack in my life before and yet my hole body tensing up was inducing uncontrollable anxiety and panic. At one point I became delirious and I started feeling like I was losing my mind. I have always been head strong and losing sanity was a new and frightening experience. It was only after propranolol and clonidine I was able to drop down my blood pressure to a normal level. What was this secondary after effect?

DAY 8 -
I took 4 days off after my previous bad experience. Today after some advice from wise Bluelight memebers I flushed the remaining bag down the toilet, except I saved just one little crystal. For some stupid reason I decided before I flush that away as well I would just give it one more try, just to be certain. But this time I diluted the flea size dose even further. I put it in a vial of water and used a syringe to to measure out 1/5th of the previous dose I was taking. This was smaller than any previous dose I had tried. Nothing could possibly go wrong with such a small dose right???...WRONG!.....

It was PURE SIDE-EFFECT!, no tweaking, no euphoria, no stimulation, Just pure HYPERTENSION, RAPID HEART RATE, MUSCLE SPASMS AND INCREASED TEMPERATURE! It was so intense and so unbearable all I could do was yell, "MUM call me an ambulance quickly". I spent the last 5 hours in the ER being pumped with drugs to lower my blood pressure, heart rate, and benzo to reduce temperature and muscle spams.

I have never felt so blind-sided in my life. WTF just happened? This was the lowest dose I had taken so far, and yet it was the most horrible effect of the lot. So now it appears I have fully developed some type of allergic/sensitivity to this stimulant or even worse....perhaps to all stimulants???? Is it my brain chemistry or neurons that have become sensitized?

In the up coming months I was going to be put on Ritalin for the first time to help with my ADHD, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and hypersomnia and now after having developed this bizarre sensitivity reaction, is it likely to effect other stimulants as well?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Flaga121]

Your neurotransmitters were burned out, no reward chemicals left. Just peripheral effects of the stimulation.

 

[Crashing]

That's MDPV in a nutshell. What happened was, MDPV. The effects of MDPV appear to be extremely complex but what you are describing is very similar to my experience with it. I have to speculate that what is going on here is that with MDPV, and underdose or overdose results in anxiogenic side effects, and the sweet dose gets the user high (this is hypothetical but since were dealing in mg, for example that could mean where 3.5mg is the sweet spot, 2mg or 5mg could cause a bad trip and these amts are impossible to eyeball). The duration is dangerously long, but the central effects appear to vanish after mere minutes. Redosing anytime within a 24hour period of the first dose with MDPV seems to set off a vicious cycle of horror.

 

[Swain]

Because mdlv has a long half-life and you are taking it every day. You are essentially binging on meth.. its a different drug but I group them the same. Honestly mdpv can be like meth on rocket fuel

 

[Altered Perception]

Your neurotransmitters were burned out, no reward chemicals left. Just peripheral effects of the stimulation.

There is something very valid to your comments. You seem to be onto something because your comments about "neurotransmitters burn out" is the same discussion my specialist gave me in regards to my having "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome". I've been bedridden for the last 1 year due to 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome". Apparently factors like drugs or stress can burn out your neurotransmitters and you develop Adrenal fatigue.

Now the bizarre part is I only resorted to using the MDVP 1 week ago to try and fix my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so apparently my neurotransmitters were already burnt out prior to that due to severe stress of living with a disability for the last 15 years. I have a lot of health problems and i cant cope with it so I get very stressed out at being bedridden 24 hours a day.

So your comments hit home with me. So if I already had burn transmitters, it didn't take much more for the effects of MDVP to make me worse? So the question is how do I fox it?

I will be put on Ritalin soon for my recent diagnosis of ADHD. How will this neurotransmitter damage from the MDVP effect my ability to tolerate Ritalin?

That's MDPV in a nutshell. What happened was, MDPV.

What you said gave me a lot of comfort. Cause perhaps some of my adverse reaction was a result of the unstable effects of MDVP and not so much my own body being damaged or sensitive? So I think both "Flaga121" comment and yours has equal merit. Thank yous guys for your help

Because mdlv has a long half-life and you are taking it every day. You are essentially binging on meth.. its a different drug but I group them the same. Honestly mdpv can be like meth on rocket fuel

That would explain the bad effects building up to day 4, but what about the worst effect I had listed on Day 8 above? That last incident happened after I had taken 4 days off from using it.

 

[sekio]

This is typical of MDPV, taking it on a regular basis is almost guaranteed to make people go bonkers because it's so strong as a stimulant. Tolerance or not, there's no "neurotransmitter burnout", it's just overstimulation from continuously taking the equivalent of probably half a gram of Ritalin a day causing your body's stress level to build up.

MDPV can't really be used safely for longer than about a day. Tolerance does build but not to the craaazy-inducing effects. It still effects your stress/adrenaline levels even if it doesn't make you "feel good", and that leads to panic attacks.

 

[blight12]

Definitely MDPV or at least not normal meth, but what you experienced is typical in concept as with any amp stim, obviously just worse cause its MDPV.

To explain this and quickly answer some specific questions:

Or so I thought.... 10 hours after initial dose, just as I am lying in bed ready for sleep I suddenly started feeling my entire body tense up, all my veins feel constricted.

This is simply the same situation that would occur when a 4 day meth binge wears off and the comedown begins. Some people just feel depressed etc but for me a comedown and this situation always equals a panic attack and extreme SNS stimulation effects. It feels like the drug suddenly become more powerful in all the wrong ways when logic tells you it should be wearing off.

This is absolutely normal, for me at least. As a high dose binge wears off the peripheral stimulation increases into a panic attack that feels very much like real physical stress and issues.

It getting worse every day from the start can be explained by the usual concept that with all stims, like meth, the negative side effects are always there, but are masked by the positive effects. As your tolerance builds each day, to the positive effects, the negative effects become worse or more noticeable, unfortunately tolerance to the negative effects never builds as fast as tolerance to the positive effects with most drugs.

The 4 day break and only negative effects after that is an interesting one. With normal dopamine stims like amps, this should be more then enough time for a very good recovery in tolerance and result in a similar experience to your day 1, but what you took specifically might work differently in this respect.

Also bear in mind, like another poster said, stims have a sweet spot, to little causes more negative symptoms just like to much does. The lower dose on the last time you used could be the reason for this, when also considering tolerance however the ratio of negative to positive would be the main effect, not what you seem to have experienced in terms of extreme negative effects you might get with a large dose.

Just one last thing, apparently taking beta blockers on stims can be quite bad for the heart, much worse then letting the stim do whatever its doing alone. Rather use a benzo to deal with these negative symptoms, or an anti psychotic to stop the drug, and not anything like a beta blocker.

 

[Altered Perception]

This is typical of MDPV, taking it on a regular basis is almost guaranteed to make people go bonkers because it's so strong as a stimulant. Tolerance or not, there's no "neurotransmitter burnout", it's just overstimulation from continuously taking the equivalent of probably half a gram of Ritalin a day causing your body's stress level to build up.

Thanks man, I am so glad you cleared that up. Cause I already have so many health problems between the "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Autonomic Dysfunction, ADHD, Chronic Pain, Postural Tachycardia Syndrome, etc" I just did not need another malfunction in my body. I am so relieved to hear that it was the MDVP and not something else that had gone wrong with my body again.

But hypothetically speaking if I had developed some degree of imbalance or intolerance due to some damage/distruption to my brain chemistry from the MDVP then how likely is that damage to interfere with my ability to tolerate other stimulants like Ritalin? (which I am going to be starting soon for my ADHD and CFS). Thanks for your help.

Definitely MDPV or at least not normal meth, but what you experienced is typical in concept as with any amp stim, obviously just worse cause its MDPV..

You answered my questions very specifically, it was just what I needed. Thanks so much. I was especially glad to hear that " too little causes more negative symptoms just like too much does" because that's exactly what happened and I couldn't make sense of why such a tiny dose below the therapeutic amount could cause side effects. I really appreciate your help, you put my concerns to rest. Thanks

 

[Flaga121]

I don't see how anyone can say there is NO neurotransmitter burn out, every study I've read on stimulants indicates that the loss of euphoria is from down regulation of reward neurotransmitters (short term) in reaction to the nero-toxic levels of flooding that occur with abuse.

 

[blight12]

I don't see how anyone can say there is NO neurotransmitter burn out, every study I've read on stimulants indicates that the loss of euphoria is from down regulation of reward neurotransmitters (short term) in reaction to the nero-toxic levels of flooding that occur with abuse.

Agreed I dont think anybody will dispute this, its tolerance in a nutshell? However i dont think down regulation implies neurotoxic level dosages directly or only. Down regulation will occur with safe non neurotoxic dosages as well over extended periods of time. I have found with dopamine it takes only 2-3 days max recover almost completely, which is awesome, where as opiates and GABA can take way way longer.

 

[Flaga121]

Hmmm, but most studies seem to suggest that recreational dosing (or stimulants that cause massive dopamine flooding) this down regulation occurs far more quickly, leaving nothing but the peripheral stimulation.

Your absolutely correct about the recovery rate of dopamine receptors. Still the OP used a little bit each day for 8 days, by the end it would be a logical that the reward pathways were quite burned out, and without abstinence the negative side effects would be all OP feels.

 

[blight12]

Yeah for from day 4 its all tapped out, and needs at least 2-3 days to recover. Im surprised it lasts that long to be honest.
If i redose within 24 hours or coming off the prev its mostly al anxiety