Benzos How the heck are benzodiazepines addictive?

[black53]

Personally I love benzos and their effects, luckily enough I read about benzo addiction so I never used them often enough to become physically dependent. But if I didn't know about that I would have become dependent. And lots of people just don't educate themselves enough about the chemicals they are taking to know the risks and how to avoid them.

On the other hand I never enjoyed opiates... sure the painkilling effects are great but other than that I don't find them enjoyable (especially because I know that they are addictive and the minor positive effects just don't seem worth it).

I guess it has a lot to do with how your brain is wired... benzos and other gabaergics (ghb being no. 1) are just something I find extremely pleasurable while other people don't really see what's so great about them the same way I don't see what's so great about opiates (unless you use them for pain, they are great for that) or taking stimulants all the time (yes, every so often they are nice, but I never wanted/needed to take them all the time and can and do quit whenever I want to). I also like dissociatives but again not all the time and can (and have) quit whenever I want to (I can have a few g of mxe at home and leave it alone without any cravings if I want to).

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^ Are you a troll? Or just argumentative, love to split hairs? Or just lacking fundamental English skills due to a poor public school system (If that's the case sorry for the following post, you just came off as such a douche I couldn't help it)? I was an English major and I feel that with confidence I could say that consuming a Valium every second Tuesday is absolutely notregular use. I'm not sure you know what the word "regular" means, or how to use it properly. I suggest this website called, "dictionary.com" I think you'll find it real useful, and you may be able to contribute something intelligent to our discussions here. I mean honestly. What's regular about taking one regular valium (which regularly happens to be one of the weakest benzos, not that it would matter anyways, regularly) two regular times a month. If anything that would be regularly rarely taking Valium. Which is the responsible way to use benzos, my mom has been regularly using benzos this way for the past 4 years now, regularly. No dependency whatsoever. I'm callin you out man, I don't think you know what you're talkin about. I think you have just enough knowledge to make yourself more wrong. So the odds of said person winding up with a problem based off your ridiculous scenario? I'm going with a 00.008214% chance of addiction developing. But you never know, I'm just a regular guy, and I make mistakes like the rest of us.

Remember. Don't feed the trolls, Melon. Not worth it.

 

[mrflowers00]

it's not a physical addiction just psychological one

 

[Kid Amine]

Hey,

How do you become addicted to benzodiazepines?. I had pills of vellum 5mg, and they were not anything great at all.
I needed about 10mg, and then an hour later I went into bed and fell asleep.

But how are they addictive?, Are they as addictive as stimulants?

Thanks!

Your body adjusts to need them, and when they are gone, your body has to adjust back to 'normal'. Valium w/d is the second suckiest w/d I ever went thru, right behind H. I was on 20 mg a day, and they are addictive because of a whole bunch of scientific reasons I don't remember, what I do remember is they have active metabolites with long half lives (like a day), and when you quit them, you kinda roll down a hill, not crash hard, but its a LONG hill. Took me 6 weeks ti feel right again, but that was on 20mg/day for years.

Physically, id say they are more addictive than stimulants, in terms of what kind of shit you go thru w/o them vs coke, Adderall, etc. Mentally, not too bad, but if you take them for sleep only, you will become intimately familiar with the words "rebound insomnia", and that in itself is pretty horrible.

 

[sekio]

Someone who's consuming one valium every second Tuesday of the month (but no benzos at any other time) is certainly taking them regularly. However, I think the chances he'll become dependent on them are slim.

Besides, dependence isn't a function only of the frequency of usage.

Amount that's consumed regularly is a factor. The strength of the benzo(s) consumed is a factor. The reason for using them is a factor (everything else equal, you're less likely to become dependent if you're taking them as prescribed by a doctor for treatment of a medical condition as opposed to taking them recreationally -- of course, this doesn't rule out the possibility that you can become dependent from therapeutic usage).

Furthermore, genetic dispositions (e.g., gender) have shown to be a factor. There is at least tentative evidence other things matter as well ("personality, social development and social pathology, etc.)

This is absolutely true, but the fact remains - these drugs produce dependency by being taken on a regular schedule. Even if the most common way to get addicted is taking them more frequently than about once a week, more importantly people can get dependent to anti-anxiety drugs at a higher level - as in needing them psychologically to function at social events. That can happen even if you use them infrequently; if every time you go out to a big gathering you need to take a Valium, you're probably going to feel a little funny if you don't.

I also believe that environmental enrichment plays a huge factor. Someone who is relatively content with their life and has an active social support group, and actively enjoys hobbies and some physical activities will probably handle BZD withdrawal better than someone who considers their life to be falling apart without benzos.

it's not a physical addiction just psychological one

It's very much a physical dependency, but people build a psychological dependency too. BZD withdrawal can cause seizures etc like alcohol WD does.

 

[Dresden]

People can get addicted to just about anything, but no, benzos are not as addictive as stimulants as a whole. Individual chemistry can, however, predispose certain people to prefer benzos over stimulants. YMMV.

 

[BlueHues]

I think with benzos, the combination of psychological and physical dependence is particularly nasty. Any "buzz" you get from them goes away fairly quickly with regular use, and they make situations that previously induced anxiety much easier to go through. People begin to feel as though they need to take them before going into any situation that might trigger stress.
Couple that with the rebound anxiety that they can give you even after using them for 3-4 days and you have some very psychologically reinforcing drugs...

I don't know anyone who considers "once a week" regular use....there's just people on BL that want to argue against the addicting nature of even the most addictive drugs....Half the time, I think that's just people in the very early stages of dabbling with something they're starting to "like" a lot, and they're trying to convince themselves and the whole world that "This isn't going to become a problem!"...If you're not afraid you're getting addicted to it, why do you need to bring it up at all, let alone try to make the argument that a drug that everyone's known for years has a high potential for addicting isn't...

Benzos are one of those drugs that the whole world has known for many years carries a high potential for physical and psychological dependence...there's no debate! With benzos, no matter how much of a non-addictive personality you're convinced you have, if you take them regularly(by the actual definition everyone in the real world goes by), you will become "addicted", or "dependent" if you prefer that word to describe it...

 

[MagickalKat777]

People can get addicted to just about anything, but no, benzos are not as addictive as stimulants as a whole. Individual chemistry can, however, predispose certain people to prefer benzos over stimulants. YMMV.

You're joking, right?

GABAergics are the single most addictive class of drugs on the market. Period. The way that they exert their effects is the direct reason why. GABA is the primary calming neurotransmitter in the brain. When your GABA levels start to diminish or your receptors become desensitized to it, there is no replacement besides GABA itself.

Stimulants work primarily through dopamine and norepinephrine, both of which are less essential for maintaining homeostasis than GABA.

Imagine if someone stuck a syringe in your brain and was able to suck out all of the GABA at once. You'd go into convulsions immediately and die quite shortly after if the GABA wasn't replaced because your glutamate system would cause excessive firing of the nerves and there would be nothing to keep it in check.

Dopamine and norephinephrine are not as essential as GABA. Sure, low levels have a number of issues associated with them, but nothing like low levels of GABA. The only thing that differs when it comes to GABAergic addiction is how long it takes to get an addiction and how long it takes to recover but if you mess with GABA long enough, you WILL get addicted.

I abused stimulants and opiates and never had withdrawals from either short of depression from the stimulant withdrawal as I was left with depleted dopamine stores and excessive dopamine down-regulation.

Nobody dies because of stimulant or opiate withdrawal except for cases of external complications as a result of withdrawal - plenty of people die from GABAergic withdrawal directly every day.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

it's not a physical addiction just psychological one

Benzos are physically addictive.

 

[Blind Melon]

Benzos are physically addictive.

So you're saying that if you can die from the absence of a drug in your body.... that drug is considered physically addictive? I'm just going to go ahead and say sorry right now, no edit required, I don't know why I'm such a troll today. That joke is obviously not directed at you Captain.Heroin, it's just me desperately trying to get somebody to notice me in this huge, scary, anonymous world!!!

 

[Blind Melon]

It's very much a physical dependency, but people build a psychological dependency too. BZD withdrawal can cause seizures etc like alcohol WD does.

Correct, Benzos and Alcohol = no fucking joke. Quitting either substance Cold Turkey can be fatal. That's some serious shit. Opiate + Benzo WDs have caused me seizures before. Not fun at all re-entering the world wondering why in the fuck you decided to sit down on the kitchen tiles, why you're head is warm and wet, and most especially just why in the motherfuck does your head hurt so bad? Hmm, headache...bloody head. Bingo! Two and Two that'll make Four, you're on the floor 'cause ya aint got no more! (because I could never have a self-respecting seizure or feint on anything even remotely related to the worst carpet, let alone a couch or... if one could dream, a bed).

Regarding My WDs, and tips to AVOID them (skipping right past the inevitable and always useless, "don't take benzos" because let's just admit it, they fucking work, and for some of us they make life livable, fuck that, I'm takin it further, worth living! again), call me a basket-case, call me a pussy, a crack-pot, a loser, a failure, a psycho... whatever. just toss me that bottle of Klonopin--nope I don't even need the water, but I'll take it, sure--and give me 10 minutes to allow my adrenaline dripping lizard brain and CNS to re-adjust their chemical balance to that of a human...aaahhhhh always forget how nice that feels not submitting to the complete and total sensation of a mini lightning storm going on in my brain, 24/7/365. and all the sudden you don't recognize me, I've just become a "normal", dare I say respectable (looking, heh-heh), and may I also add... with only the utmost of truth: smooth-talking-schmoozing-ass-charismatic-motherfucker-who-routinely-writes-and-cashes-checks-everybody-knows-his-ass-can't-cash-yet-somehow... (when on the proper medicinal dose--mind you, not the "let's get wonky" dose, which unfortunately tends to be the dose I wind up at, *doses benzos, thinking to himself, "better wrap this up quick before it really starts to unravel on me"*... guess I'm just a gluttonous fucker in my own way). "Why, hello Officer!" *bows head slightly to subliminally show the pig he's in charge, when really I have a few felonies in my pocket, thinking all the while to myself how fortunate it is the Pig-Pen tends to attract the*cough*most selfless sons and daughters of integrity, liberty and, perhaps most sacred of all their limitless, boundless as the stars in fact, forever evolving into something... I just couldn't figure out where to take this paragraph, was just tryin too hard, I think it was the excess of sarcasm that backfired on me. Try to hard to be funny... You all just can't imagine what your approval means to me, and, thankfully in this case, just how low I'll stoop to grab it, and not only that, but what I'm willing to wipe off it when I find it, and not only that, either but just where I'm willing to shove that big old pile of your approval when I get my dirty little mitts on it, somewhere secret, somewhere only I can reach...

[/amateur comedy hour, and I'd like to applaud the commitment of anybody who stuck with me through that ramble of all rambles]

Never had serious WDs from Xanax, and though Xanax is my second least favorite benzo it is by far the one I have the greatest access to because it's so fuck-damn over-rated and thus over-priced. Then again, there's no accounting for taste, and the majority has never been known for their sophisticated appetites, meaning it is the one I binge on the most frequently. After taking 6mg Xanax a day for over 2 months the first day was fine (well, towards the end of the run I would be a little sweaty before my dose time), obviously not good, but fine. Day two I was paranoid and a little sweaty. Like I had smoked a little bad meth. Day three was about the same. Days 4-5 I had a hell of a time trying to sleep. Day 6 Ambien script was filled and the final remaining symptom of my Xanax WD was banished.

However, after binging on Klonopin or Valium, benzos that stay in your system twice, thrice as long.... sometimes those WDs can be a bitch. If you pick up weight for yourself make sure you begin a taper not on time---early. You'll need it. And if you taper properly you won't feel WD at all, if you don't have the will power (as I so often haven't---okay I was straight up lying, as I never do!) you'll just blow through your stash until the bottle of 100 Rivotril are gone and then you'll feel sweaty, paranoid, anxious, stomache cramps, muscle cramps and of course....

introducing the MAC DADDY of all WDs, INSOMNIA--"that's right baby, no relief for you sucker. Your days include all 24 hours motherfucker, now get back to that tossin and turnin" said the manipulative monkey upon my back, whom I was beginning to distrust something fierce. It was almost as if every time he looked me in the eyes, got in my head.... it was like I could feel this terrible emptiness inside myself. And the worst part was... I knew how to fill it, and I did. A coupla times. But the whole just kept gettin bigger!"

And you are right, a Benzo addiction goes deep, they work their way into your life much like Opiates only in an even more insidious fashion. You either try them first to aid Opiate WD, . Or you are going through a rough patch with the wifey or the boss, get yourself a bottle of Xanax (Klonopin if you're a connoisseur, bromazepam or rophynol if you're just a fuckin boss when it comes to doing drugs).

Maybe you're having a hard time at social functions... whatever there's a million triggers for anxiety. Swallow two of those pills instead of one and find yourself at a work party--high school reunion--whatever, and all the sudden you have the courage to ask that long time crush out. And she says yes. Because you were fuckin smooth. You weren't sweatin, you weren't scrambling for words, you weren't second guessing yourself. You were sayin what you mean and spittin game. And most importantly you didn't give a shit what the answer was, all you cared about was nuttin up and putting it out there. And quite possibly it will be for that reason alone that some bitch way out of your league says, "sure, I guess" to you, and later that night you are bustin in her sweat, sweat vagina all thanks to my little helper.....*do a drum-roll in your head, a real fuckin epic one at that....*BENZODIAZEPINES. Anxiety can be a fucking crippling mental illness, and some dumb fuck who knows less about drugs than me gets to decide what would work best in who's brain? My brain. And what really fucking boils my blood. No doctor would ever refuse a CPP on grounds that Opiates are addicting, "yeah we could kill your pain, give you your life back.... but then you'd just be a slave, better to live in agony" That's what your doctor is saying to you if you have debilitating anxiety and he or fuck even she possibly says, "I'm sorry those are a last resort" which all of us hip to the beat know that last resort means not a resort at all, in fact, not even a remote possibility"

 

[mustermann]

Physical dependence is not the biggest issue imo. Yes, physical dependence to GABAergics typically requires a taper. And yeah, it's relevant that you guys bring up the issue of physical dependence. OP asked about how addiction to benzos differs from addiction to stims. Obv, most stims aren't physically addictive while you can develop physical addiction to a benzo.

Nevertheless, psychological dependence is more problematic. And data indicates it's likelier to become dependent on a strong stim such as cocaine than on a benzo, despite the fact that most stims lead to no physical dependence to speak of.

 

[moe.ron]

Physical dependence is not the biggest issue imo. Yes, physical dependence to GABAergics typically requires a taper. And yeah, it's relevant that you guys bring up the issue of physical dependence. OP asked about how addiction to benzos differs from addiction to stims. Obv, most stims aren't physically addictive while you can develop physical addiction to a benzo.

Nevertheless, psychological dependence is more problematic. And data indicates it's likelier to become dependent on a strong stim such as cocaine than on a benzo, despite the fact that most stims lead to no physical dependence to speak of.

can i have a link to the "data" your referring too?

 

[mrflowers00]

i meant you won't go through opiate like illness

 

[Blind Melon]

can i have a link to the "data" your referring too?

Yeah, I'd like one too, I think you're wrong. Stimulant addiction/craving is at it's strongest as said stimulant is leaving your body. Get past that stage and you'll likely want to take a break. I love Meth because I don't spend more than 6 days a month on it, twice that number and I wouldn't want to look at it. I smoked Meth daily in high school, for 9 straight months, no breaks (the pizo wasn't in my mouth 24/7, but I was using every single day, a gram a day minimum by the last couple months). I stopped that shit and felt better, by a lot, actually. Same thing with cocaine. I've been on multiple year long speed-ball benders, I've spent many a night smoking freebase---- once I get past the comedown I could flush the shit down the toilet if I wanted (but I don't flush money down the toilet, so I obviously don't flush product...). In fact I've flushed crack several times. Crack never ruined my life, it was Opiates, Heroin (technically speaking it was me--the decisions I made--not the drugs). I sit here today knowing full well the damage opiates/benzos have caused me, jail time, institution time, distanced family members, lost friends, lost lovers.... and I'll still tell you Heroin is my one true love. That's addiction. Fuck your Crack (no offense, I'll hit that shit with you, but don't try and say your body needs it, I ain't got no sympathy for those lies).

Fuck with that Alcohol, those Opiates, or some Benzos and you will experience what real addiction is. It's not being able to physically move without your drug. It's not being able to eat without your drug. It's not being able to go score your drug without your drug. It's not being able to think rationally.... I laugh at stimulant addiction, not that I wish it upon anybody. But honestly, every time I hear some coke-head bitch about "withdrawals" I just wanna smack them in the face. Try 195mgs of Methadone + 250mgs of Diazepam a day for a month straight (I'm not dick-sizing, I'm explaining just how retarded my addiction has made me). When you need to take a lethal dose to get out of bed, and only then, can you bitch about addiction. That's addiction. As for sex addiction, food addiction, porn addiction..... I think I'm more likely to shake hands with Santa Claus than I am to come across valid scientific data that proves anything besides the big 3 I listed (plus maybe some other sedatives, but you'll be hard pressed to find them, let alone become addicted to them). Prove me wrong. And it's not about the ROA, it's all about the drug and whether or not you can become "tissue dependent" upon it. In my humble and often misinformed opinion "psychological addictions" should be called ticks and habits.

 

[liftedgift]

I agree that stimulant withdrawal is less intense than benzo/opiate withdrawal. Not saying either is easy, but for me insomnia is one of the worst symptoms with benzo/opiate withdrawal as your just causing more anxiety/stress thinking about not getting sleep and the cycle begns. Meth heads sleep for days when coming off. Stim addicts stay up all night while on it then sleep a lot during withdrawal, benzo/opiate the exact opposite.

 

[ShaunG]

After only 1mg Xanax at night for sleep/GAD/occasional panic attack for 3 years my digestive tract has become so physically dependent on it that my entire digestive tract shut down from too fast of a taper (6weeks). im back at 1mg and my stomach still isnt working fast enough to be considered back to normal. Given no nerve damage was done and I recover 100%, I will likely need a long drawn out taper or switch to klonopin or valium. My case is obviously not the norm and is extreme, but not fun guys. I had to go to the hospital cuz i couldnt keep food down as my stomach and intestines were not contracting to move food. Shit was nuts. I had tons of tests done all to find out it was from stupid Xanax. Do not use benzos every day.

 

[Jackeh]

i meant you won't go through opiate like illness

I'd say that considering you have full on seizures that can kill, it is a bit worse than dope sickness.

 

[liftedgift]

After only 1mg Xanax at night for sleep/GAD/occasional panic attack for 3 years my digestive tract has become so physically dependent on it that my entire digestive tract shut down from too fast of a taper (6weeks). im back at 1mg and my stomach still isnt working fast enough to be considered back to normal. Given no nerve damage was done and I recover 100%, I will likely need a long drawn out taper or switch to klonopin or valium. My case is obviously not the norm and is extreme, but not fun guys. I had to go to the hospital cuz i couldnt keep food down as my stomach and intestines were not contracting to move food. Shit was nuts. I had tons of tests done all to find out it was from stupid Xanax. Do not use benzos every day.

I couldn't keep anything down awhile back when I was eating benzos a lot, but I was young and didn't even really know what benzo withdrawal actually meant. I lost so much weight and would just keep puking up bile as there was nothing in my stomach, had to go get an IV of saline and they ran all sorts of tests but didn't find anything. I tried to look up benzo withdrawal eventually but didn't find people having stomach issues at first so I didn't think it was that.

Pretty sure it was though, seems like once you know what to expect from withdrawal its always worse. As I didn't really notice all the mental shittyness I just thought I felt so bad since I was throwing up/sick 24/7.

 

[Blind Melon]

^ Exactly man. The first time you use cocaine/meth/mdma you don't even really have a come-down, I know I sure didn't, it actually took a few months of regular usage before I started having stim come-downs. Sometimes I wonder if you introduced a naïve rookie to fishscale and didn't mention anything about a comedown they probably wouldn't have one. For me the cocaine/crack come-down is 100% the misery of wanting nothing, absolutely nothing else, except one (okay maybe just 2, 3 at most) last hit--knowing full well that the rush will last 2 minutes (if I'm lucky) by this stage in the sesh, and then it's back to pushing boulders up-hill.

So learn how to do drugs properly, you get to that stage, and then you take an Opiate to turn lemons into lemonade, or pop a/some benzos and your comedown will have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Coke/Meth does not expire over night, so you don't need to feel pressured to handle that whole bag in one go. If you're a thinking person you'll even plan ahead and save a few bumps/pudds/lines to get you goin with that cup of coffee the following morning.

You're so right liftedgift, if you don't know about the stimulant come-down (because there is no such thing as stimulant withdrawals. Ahhhh poor babies, gotta choke down some food and drink some water, sleep a day or two. Rough! How do they do it?, with at worst a slight sense of depression/boredom/lack of motivation--which we all experience naturally some days, no drug come-down required. You can disagree with me and live in your delusion if you want, but don't come at me--I've been there, I've smoked, sniffed and eaten half my body weight in meth/coke/mdma--I'm speaking from experience).

So anyways, now that my little rant is out of the way, back to responding to that last post...

I'm gonna say it again, give another example of liftedgift's idea. When I started using Opiates (you have to remember, I went to school during "DARE", where I was told smoking marijuana was just as bad and addicting as using heroin, and that if I did smoke marijuana I would grow breasts and my penis shaft would shrink because it (herb) absolutely floods the male body with estrogen (And I can just hear your thoughts, "An officer of the Peace? With no knowledge of drugs?" And that's the kindest of the two assumptions, because if that pig really did know his drugs then he would know he's lying through his teeth to children in a classroom. Joke's on him though, I still got a fat old dangler %) OK, you got me, I'm no John Holmes, but if anything my cock has grown since I started smoking herb 10 years ago).

And then I find out 90% of my family used drugs regularly at some point in their life, with a few on both sides of the fam having been long-term addicts (one to cocaine and crystal, the other to alcohol and cigarettes, but they'd done it all, 'Ludes, Vals, H, Crys...whatever was available during the 70-80s).

And all of my family (except myself and the other addict, one of my cousins) have shit under control, locked down tight. We're not 1%ers, 2%ers, 5%ers or even 40%ers, but many of my family members have done very well for themselves, and all of them turned out not only sane, but intelligent, caring, etc... And my uncles didn't have boobies! The decision to smoke herb was made, and that experience would ultimately lead me to distrust all authorities (a lesson that has been reinforced on many an occasion), and the resulting distrust of any and all authorities led me to my political leanings toward anarchism.

In any event, those pigs out there can just go and protect and serve their own damned (hopefully) selves (which is all they do anyways) and let me worry about me, I don't want to hurt anybody, I don't want to steal from anybody (unless they're some punk-ass dealer or other some such d-bag flashing their cash in my face, and everybody else's, lest we forget how much mad chedda they be stackin) I just want to handle my business and catch a little buzz without havin to look over my shoulder all the time.

You know your nation has been long-dicked in the ass for so long we're collectively insane when a guy caught with a kilo of blow gets more jail time than (and I hesitate to use the word human) some dude caught raping his 9 year old step-daughter.

So anyways, all that to say when I started using Crystal and then Painkillers I had no idea they were in the same class of drugs as Heroin/Opiates (ahh, that sweet Mana from Heaven). I really had no idea vicodin was related to--and felt so similar to--heroin. And I was taught that Cannabis was just as addictive as Heroin, and I had that herb shit under control. So I thought what's all the fuss about? Not only does this stuff make the "high" of alcohol seem sloppy and boring, it doesn't come with a hangover! So I'll just do it everyday. Occasionally I'd run out in the beginning and wonder why I had a fever. So I'd go get some Opiates to feel better, and of course I did. I'm a bright guy, but I must admit it took me about 5 "fevers" to figure out that I wasn't sick-sick, I was dope-sick. And that knowledge, that realization that you have become a slave, that there's only one cure for your particular brand of blah... that makes the WDs so much harder, when you know with a little cash you could go from feeling like 9 lbs of hammered shit in a 10lb bag to heavenly once more.