How often can I do 1st plateau on DXM (150mg)?

[hoovalitious]

I know there are a couple older threads on this, but they don't answer this question really, and they are really old.
Anyways, I love the 150mg range of DXM. I know how it will go for me by now (100+ doses) and I love the fact that I can easily control it with GFJ and diphenhydramine. So my question is, how often can I do this?
I know the stories about people doing 2nd and 3rd plateau and the general consensus seems to be to wait at least 2 weeks. However, I am doing half of that. I have done 450mg as my max, and didn't seem to have any after effects except for a longer "afterglow" that lasted about a day and a half, instead of the normal half day on 150mg.
So how often can I safely wait to do this (I like my brain and thought processes to work properly .) And would it matter if I take it with a glass of GFJ or with 50-100mg of diphenhydramine?
Thank you so much for any help!

 

[Crashing]

There really is no conclusive evidence as to the damage done by DXM, and the only answers you might get with be speculative. The only thing I know from experience is that when dosing high multiple times a week, I noticed cognitive changes within... about one week! That was at 500-750mg dosages though, 2nd and 3rd plateaus for me.

It's probably best just to stick to the 2 week schedule, but i don't think at 150mg it would be terrible to use it every weekend. Just try to be aware of your cognitive balance. If something seems like its off then it probably is and you gotta take a hiatus.

 

[Krat0m]

I remember reading on erowid that in theory dxm can cause olneys lesions. A type of brain damage caused by dissociatives such as ketamine. I can tell you I had a friend through high school who was always frying on dxm. I mean every single day literally, he even went to jail for stealing it from grocery stores. After he finally cleaned up he has never been the same, he is just kind of out there.

Courtesy of erowid.
*"
For a long time, nobody knew whether Olney's lesions applied to human beings or not, or at what dosage they applied. The amount of ketamine used to knock out a rat, for example, is obviously different than the amount used for humans; it's also not the same dosage in mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) either. And different effects of drugs "scale" differently too.

However, several things have happened recently which have led me to conclude that Olney's lesions apply to humans at recreational doses. First, I've received reports from many hundreds of users of DXM, some of whom have used it heavily and been clearly harmed. Second, more recent studies have shown that damage occurs to lab animals' brains even at lower doses (including ordinary anaesthetic doses of ketamine and dizocilpine!). Third, reports of ketamine-related brain damage have started to show up. Finally, the type of impairment people are reporting coincides exactly with the areas of the brain damaged in lab animals.

If you think you might be suffering from Olney's lesions, DON'T PANIC. You may just have depleted neurotransmitters, or induced long-term (but reversible) changes to neuroreceptor function. If you feel you are impaired, STOP USING NOW, and stay clean for several months before you get worried. Many people have told me that their "brain damage" cleared up after a few months.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Olney's lesions are WORSE in female animals than males, probably because females have different limbic connections. This may apply to humans.*"

Courtesy of wikipedia
*"Dextromethorphan, a common antitussive often found in cough medicines, has been shown to cause vacuolization in rats' brains when administered at doses of 75 mg/kg.[5] However, oral administration of dextromethorphan hydrobromide (DXM HBr) to female rats in single doses as high as 120 mg/kg did not result in detectable neurotoxic changes at 4-6 hours or 24-26 hours post-dose (female rats are more sensitive to NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity).[6] The same researchers also found no evidence of neurotoxic changes in retrosplenial or cingulate cortices of male rats orally administered up to 400 mg/(kg day) DXM HBr or female rats orally administered 120 mg/(kg day) DXM HBr, both for 30 days. Carliss et al. (2007) also found that rats administered 9 mg/(kg day sc) (+)-MK-801 hydrogen maleate for 30 days did produce detectable vacuolation as expected. When 30 mg/(kg ip) dextrorphan was administered to male rats, neurotoxic changes were observed only 30 minutes post-dose.*"

 

[Crashing]

Onley's Lesions is a theoretical type of brain damage that has never actually been recorded. I think its a myth.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

The Olney's lesions stuff is a bunch of malarkey, as far as we know. The bigger worry would be the fact that the dude wants to take an SNRI as frequently as possible.

I'd still stick to once every two weeks at most, to avoid tolerance if nothing else, but at 150mg you'd probably be able to get a away with weekly use.

 

[pharmakos]

my bottle of robogels says "don't take any more than 8 caplets in a 24 hour period." so in the manufacturer's opinion 120mg per day is okay. that's if it's space out into 4 doses each 6 hours apart though.

olney's lesions aren't proven at all, and they especially shouldn't be a problem with 150mg doses. you're going to be running more into serotonin/dopamine depletion i would think. daily doses of 150mg will probably catch up to you eventually. and the negative effects are gonna sneak up on you slowly at that dosage range, so you might not even be aware of the negative effects when they start occurring.

https://www.nuedexta.com/ <- this DXM preparation is actually intended for long term daily use, and they indicate that you should take 40mg per day.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Onley's Lesions is a theoretical type of brain damage that has never actually been recorded. I think its a myth.

Just for clarification, it hasn't been recorded/observed in humans, but it has been observed in rats. It's not a theoretical type of brain damage, but an actual one which has been observed.

However, that said, there hasn't been any evidence of it in humans, aside from anecdotal reports of cognitive problems after using dissociatives which may or may not be related.

The man behind the theory that humans too would get Olney's Lesions later withdrew it based on a lack of evidence.

 

[Crashing]

This is the important part to me:

After administration of 1.0 (mg/kg sc) MK-801 to rats, these neurotoxic changes became more apparent until about 12 hours post-dose, but the morphology of most cells appeared normal by light microscope about 24 hours post-dose. With 10 (mg/kg sc) doses of MK-801, the vacuolation reaction was still visible by light microscope 48 hours post-dose. After repeated doses of the NMDA antagonists MK-801 and PCP, the vacuolation reaction appeared consistent with the reaction after a single dose, so there was no evidence of a cumulative neurotoxic effect or that the reaction proceeded to an irreversible stage with repeated doses.

Basically all this says, is that the NDMA antagonist will alter your brain chemistry temporarily. Well.. DUH lol

 

[Splitz]

my bottle of robogels says "don't take any more than 8 caplets in a 24 hour period." so in the manufacturer's opinion 120mg per day is okay.

Yeah, but if someone has a chronic cough I doubt they'd be advised to ingest DXM daily.

 

[pharmakos]

true ^^like i said, dosage at that level will probably catch up to you eventually

the package does say something like "if cough continues for more than 2 weeks or if cough gets worse then consult a physician"