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How much over your normal dose is OD territory(opiates)

stayin alive

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
161
Say a guys normal dose is 80mg of OC. This gets him chillin and feelin good, not even noddin hard. How much is a possible overdose. 160? 120? 240? I know no one can tell anyone exactly, but whats an approx dose?
 
That would be an extremely difficult number to pinpoint. So difficult, in fact, that I wouldn't even shoot guesses. When my normal dose of OC was 80mg I did 400mg and was just noddin extremely hard until I passed out and woke up a bit later, still faded and sweating/puking. When my normal dose was 400mg I was doing up to 800mg on occasion. When my normal dose hit around 600-640mg I was doing close to a gram on occasion. I would never recommend gaining a tolerance anywhere near that, but that's just an example of how much certain people can take once the tolerance is there. My body definitely felt close more than a few times, so again, very bad idea. Don't even attempt to get close to your OD level. Just get yourself quite faded and leave it at that. If you really want to know about how much would kill you without any tolerance than search for the LD50 of Oxycontin in humans. That would mean the dose that would kill 50% of humans with no tolerance.
 
agreed. when i had a 30mg oxy tolerance, i once took close to 200mg and was just nodding out really hard...got sick as fuck when i woke up though and puked for the next twenty minutes.
 
stayin alive said:
Say a guys normal dose is 80mg of OC. This gets him chillin and feelin good, not even noddin hard. How much is a possible overdose. 160? 120? 240? I know no one can tell anyone exactly, but whats an approx dose?
Definitely no way anyone could even guess, as said above. To add another experience - I had a 4-6 bag a day IV heroin habit and proceeded to accidently shoot 4 bags in one shot(I was already high on 2 bags), and was on the verge of calling 911 for a few hours. I would have thought that would have been enough to kill me.....
 
NOTE:
this is not safe...just because we survived these incidents, doesn't mean you will! always be careful with dosing opiates.
 
[EDIT- Please ignore me, I have nothing positive to add]
 
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A few ideas to add to this discussion:

LD50 values for opioids are generally useless information. Tolerance causes an inexact shift upward in the LD50 value for every individual. Unless someone is completely opiate naive - never used opiates before - LD50 values are a poor indicator of a lethal dose.

Keep in mind what LD50 means, the source of the LD50 information, and the species for which it is reported (rat, dog, human...) LD50 is the amount of drug that is lethal to 50% of the subjects given the stated dosage, the other 50% would survive, but in what condition? LD50s are usually expressed as an amount (mgs) per body weight (Kgs); careful math must be used to calculate the LD50 for a given individual, for the Americans out there: 2.2 pounds is equal to 1.0 Kg. Know and trust the source of your LD50 information. There are many shady, outdated sources for this difficult to establish data. Often people find LD50 numbers, which may have been experimentally determined for a laboratory animal, and use it for their calculations. They take this number, assuming it is directly applicable to humans, which it IS NOT, and use it to make dosage calculations. This could easily lead to the erroneous calculation of a safe dosage. However, when they take the calculated amount, which was based on experimental data gathered from pigs, they wind up dead and wonder why.

The idea that "junkies" - myself having been one for a good spell - OD often and die is a concept that needs to be better understood. Here is what I would add to people's knowledge to assit them in better understanding the tragedy of overdosing:

Long-term, current addicts who use only well prepared opioids (no active or harmful cuts, etc....) rarely die from ODs. This is a well-known fact in the addiction medicine medical community. I can provide references should anyone wish to verify this statement independently.

When taking 2, 3, even 4 times your regular, consistent dose it is most likely to become fatal when one or more of the following are true:

1. You are not a regular user of opioids; you are a chipper or a newbie.
2. You have used any other drug that day, especially alcohol, benzos or barbs.
3. You have taken a significant break from your regular, consistent using pattern, long enough that you are well past withdrawal symptoms.
4. You change methods of administration, e.g. from snorting to IV-ing or plugging.
5. You are unfortunate and/or misjudged your tolerance such that 2x your normal dose kills you despite none of the above being true. This is the "catch all", the gotcha clause, that exists to demonstrate that on occasion even the tolerant die from a 2x dosage of their OOC (opioid of choice) - but this is the exceptional case, it is very rare.

No one can predict what dose will kill someone. The person who can best estimate the lethal dose for someone is himself/herself, provided they have knowledge about how opiates affect the body and have a solid grip on the necessary info about their own usage such as the amount of their regular dose, whether or not they are chippers and do or do not have tolerance or if they are physically dependent.

It is surprising how many regular opiate users don't even know this much about their own use. You can ask many an addict their normal dose of heroin or oxycodone three times in a week and often get three wildly different answers. This isn't to say all, or even most addicts are this clueless, many addicts are very knowledgable about opioids, their use and their limits.

Know your body, know your habit, know your LIMITS! Then do not push them, if not for your own sake, for those who care about you.
 
My understanding of the research on fatal opiate ODs says that new or niave users don't make up the majoirty of fatal ODs. In one study I'm thinking of, the average length of heroin using career at the time of fatal overdose was 10 years, and the average age was in the mid-30s.

It's also true that in a large number of fatal opiate ODs people don't have especially large amounts of morphine in their blood. That's because in most fatal ODs, there's other drugs involved - specifically alcohol and / or benzos.
 
I have always assumed that the wealth of opiate (mostly heroin) ODs were due to somebody not dosing for a short amount of time then dosing suddenly with their normal dose or slightly more than their usual dose.

basically when a long-term user gets clean for a week and then he succumbs to the temptation of a shot of dope. the user usually neglects the fact that their tolerance is significantly lower than it was and they dose with a usual shot which can result in fatal consequences - do not neglect your tolerance!
 
^^ Yes, exactly. That's what I wasted 1000 words trying to say. That and when new users do too much or any user mixes it with alcohol and/or benzos.
 
speedball_racer said:
A few ideas to add to this discussion:

LD50 values for opioids are generally useless information. Tolerance causes an inexact shift upward in the LD50 value for every individual. Unless someone is completely opiate naive - never used opiates before - LD50 values are a poor indicator of a lethal dose.

Keep in mind what LD50 means, the source of the LD50 information, and the species for which it is reported (rat, dog, human...) LD50 is the amount of drug that is lethal to 50% of the subjects given the stated dosage, the other 50% would survive, but in what condition? LD50s are usually expressed as an amount (mgs) per body weight (Kgs); careful math must be used to calculate the LD50 for a given individual, for the Americans out there: 2.2 pounds is equal to 1.0 Kg. Know and trust the source of your LD50 information. There are many shady, outdated sources for this difficult to establish data. Often people find LD50 numbers, which may have been experimentally determined for a laboratory animal, and use it for their calculations. They take this number, assuming it is directly applicable to humans, which it IS NOT, and use it to make dosage calculations. This could easily lead to the erroneous calculation of a safe dosage. However, when they take the calculated amount, which was based on experimental data gathered from pigs, they wind up dead and wonder why.


That's why when I mentioned LD50 I made sure to include the fact that it meant the dosage that would kill 50% of humans with no tolerance. If the guy has never done more than one 80 then he very well could be opiate naive.
 
yea i had SEVERE respiratory depression last night...

i took around 85mg of oxycodone with about 3 shots of 80 proof....scared me. i seriously had to remind myself to breath...
 
actually, thats my normal oxy doseage, i just took my oxy in percocet form, and for some reason it felt like nearly TWO fold my normal doseage.

oxycodone rocks, oxycontin sucks.
 
^^ Yeah definitely, two OC 40's will not feel like 8 percocet 10's for some reason, for me at least. I know its the same dose maybe its the tylenol potentiating it.
 
No im not, a lot of people would agree with me. You obviously dont have any experience with opiods and just wanted to make a pointless comment.
 
^^^Tylenol potentiates the analgesia effects between the two, but not the euphoric effects...

It is ok to accept that it may all be inside your head.

Or maybe take into consideration that even though you break *most* of the time release mechanism, some is still swallowed so, OC may just seem less potent than instant release percs w/o any type of time release....

just another $0.02 from me to hopefully end one debate that has been discussed WAAAAAAAYYYY too much, and does NOT pertain to the original question in any sense at all.

Now, back on track to the original question...
 
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idiots--the discussion between differences of instant-release oxycodone being better than time-release-mechanism-defeated oxycodone is ridiculous. THEY ARE THE SAME DRUG. unreal.

swybs
 
Overdoses happen all the time, however lethal overdoses happen rarely. Anytime you take too much and end up puking/feel overpowered you basically overdosed. When you die from an overdose it's a lethal dose, then the only hope you've got is someone with quick access to naracan to revive you. A tolerant person can do incredibly high, obscene amounts even, to a regular non tolerant person, which for one tolerant person to get high is enough to kill several non tolerant people. I'm on 205mg of methadone a day, and i've taken up to 700mg+ combined with clonazepam and clonidine and still whished I could have gotten higher. I'm tolerant to clonazepam also but not nearly as much so, 0.5mg a day will hold me in terms of physicall symptoms, but i'm prescribed 1.5mg a day. I can take 5mg with 400mg-600mg methadone with no problems at all, even topping it off with a small dose of clonidine (0.15mgs or under that) if I can't nodd as much as I'd like to. Honestly when I started MMT I could have died several times over from a single 200mg dose. I'm sure everybody has gotten the idea now from this thread that once tolerant you can do absurd amounts which could kill many non tolerant people from one 'normal' tolerant dose.
 
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