How much has your life changed since you started bodybuilding?

[aanallein]

Ok, next time have 10 boiled eggs for breakfast with plenty of veggies. Record the time and mood. Do not eat anything until you go hungry again. When you go hungry, record the time. The time span will be about 6 hours, and you will have realized your mood will have pretty much stayed stabilized for those 6 hours. No food cravings and no mood swings.

I am not talking about low GI sources or FDA reccomended intakes, I am talking about high protein and moderate fat meals with plenty of fiber.

Seriously, do the experiment. You will be in for a big surprise.

There's virtually no carbs in that meal. Of course I'm not going to crash - I have no blood sugar in the first place.

You can't sustain on a low carb diet like that very long and its not healthy while bodybuilding at all either.

By the way I still get hungry 2-3 hours later as 7-8 eggs and vegetables (soybeans) is one of my favorite meals of the day.

To deplete your glycogen stores, you pretty much have to be training everyday, doing a shitload of volume, and restricting yourself to a cetogenic diet.

This is exactly what I do actually. I get the best muscle growth under those conditions combined with a steady supply of small meals high in protein and low in carbs.

 

[El_Toro]

You're referring to weight gain, but you should be referring to muscle gain. Sure, you'll still gain weight, but it'll be in a less efficient manner.

You go ahead and load up every 5 hours, and I'll eat every 2.5. I guarantee you'll have a higher percentage of fat, and I'll have a higher percentage of muscle.

Really?

This is me at about 80kilos bodyweight, and I am probably stronger than you are.

I eat three times a day, sometimes two. My progress has not been affected at all ever since making the switch from the stupid bb-ing nutritional reccomendations. Yes, it may make one iota of a difference if you are a professional bber or dieting hardcore, but to be honest, 99% of the guys here are into weight training (not even bbing itself) just to look good. Doing all this "carrying my tupperware everywhere I go" is tupid, and robs you of precious time and resources. I rather train hard and make sure I can at least clean and press my bodyweight, than worry when my next meal will be because, oh my god, my muzclez will zhrink bro!

And whilst it was not implied, weight gain is of course, muscle gain. I was responding to BigBenn who also used weight gain. Perhaps make sure you read before posting mate.

EDITED: Removed pics

 

[El_Toro]

I should not be posting pics of me on such a popular forum but anyway. I am not even into training for looks (I rather train like an athlete), but just to prove that you can have a six pack not doing any direct ab work, and not following standard bbing nutritional advice.

 

[El_Toro]

There's virtually no carbs in that meal. Of course I'm not going to crash - I have no blood sugar in the first place.

You can't sustain on a low carb diet like that very long and its not healthy while bodybuilding at all either.

By the way I still get hungry 2-3 hours later as 7-8 eggs and vegetables (soybeans) is one of my favorite meals of the day.



This is exactly what I do actually. I get the best muscle growth under those conditions combined with a steady supply of small meals high in protein and low in carbs.

No carbs? Try having two big red peppers, some tomato juice and some greenies and you can easily have 50 grams of carbs there.

People can and have bulked with medium carbs (anywhere from 100 to 200 grams). You just need to eat enough to stay out of ketosis, which only requires about 60 grams of carbs a day. Hell, you probably dont reach ketosis if you are eating over 1 gram of protein per lbs of bodyweight.

 

[aanallein]

Nothing you've posted has anything to do with hypoglycemia which is what I've been talking about all along. And vegetables are very low carb how are you getting 50g carbs from vegis you must be eating a train full.

In any event that is all well and good if it works for you. Personally I'm hypoglycemic and if I don't eat every 3 hours I crash REALLY bad to the point of almost losing consciousness (used to happen in school continuously) or going into a sort of mental daze state. Doesn't matter what kind of carbs I eat or how much I eat I just require food every 2.5-3 hours.


And as for body building on a 2-3 meal a day plan - that's great if its working for you. Personally I'll go with what the experts go by and what has been proven to work - small meals more often.

 

[nickels]

Really?

I am probably stronger than you are.

That would be a silly assumption.

 

[El_Toro]

That would be a silly assumption.

Really? Just like your silly assumption on bodyfat?

All lifts at 78 kilos bodyweight:

- Fullsquat (ass to grass) double bodyweight (actually more than 2x, 160kilos)
- Strict clean and pressed 85 kilos (after maxing out on clean & jerks)
- One hand powersnatch 50kilos easy
- Clean & jerked 120 kilos.

Anyway, I am giving up on this. You guys have fun with your tupperware and catabolism, and working your life around getting your next meal. Then go to the gym and wave the pink dumbells whilst feeling the burn, and never forgetting your post workout Cell-Tech shake. Brottitude is what is all about.

 

[El_Toro]

Nothing you've posted has anything to do with hypoglycemia which is what I've been talking about all along. And vegetables are very low carb how are you getting 50g carbs from vegis you must be eating a train full.

In any event that is all well and good if it works for you. Personally I'm hypoglycemic and if I don't eat every 3 hours I crash REALLY bad to the point of almost losing consciousness (used to happen in school continuously) or going into a sort of mental daze state. Doesn't matter what kind of carbs I eat or how much I eat I just require food every 2.5-3 hours.


And as for body building on a 2-3 meal a day plan - that's great if its working for you. Personally I'll go with what the experts go by and what has been proven to work - small meals more often.

What? Seriously.

Are you talking about hypoglycemia on average joe's or bodybuilders? How do you know you are hypoglycemic? Do you test your glucose levels? Have you been diagnosed?

Perhaps you just make shitty meal decisions, and end up crashing yourself. Actually, I bet that is the case.

And experts, well, there are so many acclaimed experts nowadays. Have a read at bodybuilding books from the 20's to the 50's. The reccomendations on nutrition was not FREQUENCY, but rather, QUALITY of meals. I can also pinpoint you to experts who believe eating 6 meals (or more a day) is not superior to 3 meals a day. And they can actually back that up with research.

 

[rolls]

Well, I've stopped BB over the last few months, but I've started back, but I'll tell you about before.

I was an underweight, skinny, unconfident guy. Within a few months, it gave me so much motivation because of all the progress I was making, I felt stronger physically and mentally and it really did change my life. It made me so much more focused with everything i did, from fitness/eating, goal setting, everything.

Anyone thinking of getting into BB do it, its fantastic and Ive never looked back.

Similar story only it was more slight self image problems. Basically its given me a lot more self confidence, I feel healthier and much stronger. The ultimate part is I love the extra attention it gets you from the ladies.

 

[aanallein]

El_Toro you are highly opinionated and extremely self righteous. There is really no point in debating with you further on this subject except to say that:

1. Yes I am hypoglycemic.
2. Body building can lead to hypoglycemia.
3. Unless you can site some kind of scientific evidence to suggest 6 meals < 3 meals you aren't proving a point but are just giving your own opinion (which is fine, I don't care if you eat less often).
4. My meal quality and intensity of lifting is fine and your assumptions are characteristic of your self-righteous and highly disrespectful attitude.
5. Anybody who says "I'm stronger than you are" on an internet forum or otherwise tries to put themselves over another person they have no way of knowing anything about is - quite frankly - a jackass.


For the people looking to get into bodybuilding I'd advice you to not see El_Toro as characteristic of bodybuilders - he's just somebody who thinks too highly of himself. I'd direct any questions you have to BigBenn who's really knowledgeable and not an egotist.

 

[El_Toro]

El_Toro you are highly opinionated and extremely self righteous. There is really no point in debating with you further on this subject except to say that:

1. Yes I am hypoglycemic.
2. Body building can lead to hypoglycemia.
3. Unless you can site some kind of scientific evidence to suggest 6 meals < 3 meals you aren't proving a point but are just giving your own opinion (which is fine, I don't care if you eat less often).
4. My meal quality and intensity of lifting is fine and your assumptions are characteristic of your self-righteous and highly disrespectful attitude.
5. Anybody who says "I'm stronger than you are" on an internet forum or otherwise tries to put themselves over another person they have no way of knowing anything about is - quite frankly - a jackass.


For the people looking to get into bodybuilding I'd advice you to not see El_Toro as characteristic of bodybuilders - he's just somebody who thinks too highly of himself. I'd direct any questions you have to BigBenn who's really knowledgeable and not an egotist.

What?

Listen, I posted pics of myself to prove I am legitimate. My advice was doubted upon my looks, so I proved him wrong. So, I then proceed to make the same assumption he made, but based on strength, and I am actually fairly sure he is just a wimpy bodybuilder. Anyway, this is the internet bro, you know tis aint fo reelzzz.

And I aint no bb'er. I am strength athlete. And no, I do not think highly of myself. What? Because I posted some pics of myself and my stats? To prove an idiot that he is wrong? My, you guys certainly need to stop the dope.

Anyway, my main point was trying to help out the original poster (yes, I am such an egoist) who said he was fed up of all this bodybuilding nutrition crap interfering with his life. I have been right there too and know how bad it can be, but then I actually stopped, thought, and considered other options, and not follow whatever some roided as fuck, pencil neck, arm chair specialist or nutrition guru with a shiny smile may say. Nothing is written on stone, and it is very easy to be lost amongst the minutae and obsessive thinking.

 

[aanallein]

I think you are egotistical because you used your 'stats' and pictures as a way of attacking another person's viewpoints (as well as calling them a 'wimpy bodybuilder) on subject matter that is best debated using scientific evidence. Btw his fat comment wasn't meant to be a personal attack he was saying that eating more often will lead to lower body fat and higher lean muscle because of the effect it has on absorption, storage, and insulin response which scientific evidence supports. You turned it into something personal.


Again, if you have some kind of studies showing that 3 meals a day is superior to 6 go ahead and post it. Otherwise you're just stating your opinion which is fine but its just an opinion.

By the way I don't do drugs or steroids or even drink more than once every few months.. just a regular guy who likes body building.

Also - Eating 6 times a day is hardly as difficult as you make it out to be. I eat in the morning, eat a snack a few hours later, eat lunch, eat a snack right before working out, eat again right after working out, and then eat dinner later. Not very hard at all...


Anyway post some studies or something, this bickering back and forth is pretty pointless and ultimately diet and exercise/weight training is different for everybody because their body will respond differently. If 3 meals a day work for you that's great.

 

[BigBenn]

El Torro I respect your opinion as a fellow athlete but I think you are oversimplifying this discussion.

I think you are neglecting to take into account the individual's metabolism and eating habits. The person's goals are the biggest thing. Those with fast metabolisms, high calorie requirements, or are prone to hypoglycemia need to eat more often. I don't know about you, but when I am bulking I eat 4500+ calories/day. I can't imagine trying to eat that in 3 meals. And I'm not talking about eating a pizza and frenchfries, we are talking lean meats, fresh veggies, healthy oils. Thats just alot of food.

I happen to have high insulin sensitivity which means my blood sugar bounces around like crazy all day. That makes me hypersensitive to when my body is running on absorbed glucose or stored glycogen. I'm sure aanallein feels the same way if he is prone to hypoglycemia.

You are a strength athlete, you might be able to get away with 3 meals a day. But we are talking about bodybuilders here. Maybe its because I jump on cycle, eat mad food, and pack on 20 pounds in 10 weeks, just to do it again next year...

 

[aanallein]

^ Agreed.

I've always had this problem and I think a big problem in society is that we aren't taught to recognize it and a lot of people go through life not knowing they have it. Only through weight training, cleaning up my diet, and becoming more aware of my energy levels and consumption/use of carbs/fats/protein did I become aware that something wasn't right and went about fixing it.

Also like BB said I generally aim for 4-5k calories a day. Eatting 1500+ calories in a sitting doesn't really sound very fun.

 

[El_Toro]

BigBenn,

My main intention for posting on this thread was to remove the high pedestal placed upon nutrition. I mean, if you are a bodybuilder (and by this, I mean you actually compete), then yes, go ahead and eat every 2 hours and plan your life around your meals. However, I doubt such is the case for the person complaining of how it interferes with his life. There is no need to decrease your life quality because such minutae is distracting you from it. I mean, even in the case that eating 6,7 or 10 times a day brought about more benefits, if it is going to affect you, why bother. Eat a big breakfast and dinner, and perhaps have one or two big shakes in the middle. After all, all you want to do is look good and that is not very difficult, even with a crappy diet.

And I do not see much difference in the nutritional requirements for an athlete (especifically a strength athlete) and a bodybuilder. Especially if we take into account that most nutritional research has been done on endurance athletes, and some on strength athletes. Bodybuilders are just drawing lines at what may or may not benefit them since no specific research has been done on them. What really works for them is anyone's a guess (which is evident by the amount of gurus out there saying one thing and the other), but I doubt it will generally differ to that of an olympic lifter, powerlifter, shotputter, thrower, strongman etc.

At the end of the day, gaining muscle/losing fat is a process of energy balance. What you do in between (provided you satisfy the minimum i.e Protein, EFA's micro nutrients) is up to you, and different tactics are bound to yield very similar effects. Of course, once you get to sub 8% bodyfat figures, you need to start tweaking things, but then, only bodybuilder's go down to such bodyfat levels, and your average gym rat would be quite content to be at 10% with a visible six-pack.

 

[BigBenn]

Eat a big breakfast and dinner, and perhaps have one or two big shakes in the middle. After all, all you want to do is look good and that is not very difficult, even with a crappy diet.

And thats where I lost respect for your opinion.

We will agree to disagree.

 

[El_Toro]

Also like BB said I generally aim for 4-5k calories a day. Eatting 1500+ calories in a sitting doesn't really sound very fun.

Actually, I have a lot of fun eating a meal of 1000-1500 calories, and all from clean sources, but then I have a big stomach. A high meal frequency is pretty much the only reason I see to do so, for those who have to consume copious amounts of food and cannot sit down and down a big meal (for whatever reasons it may be).

And believe it or not, when I was dieting down (to try and go down one weight category) I found eating less frequently had me less hungry than eating with a more frequency (and same calories). The feeling of satiety in a big meal when dieting is very much welcomed.

 

[El_Toro]

And thats where I lost respect for your opinion.

Not that I care for what you think about my opinion, but can you elaborate on that?. I am curious as to why.

 

[BigBenn]

I would like to see your idea of a healthy 1000 calorie breakfast, because there is no way in hell I would be able to eat it.

Like I said before, you might be able to eat that much in one sitting, and you may feel like your body likes it, but why you have to project that onto all powerlifters, bodybuilders and athletes alike is beyond me.

Do what works for you, and I will continue to do what works for me.

 

[El_Toro]

I would like to see your idea of a healthy 1000 calorie breakfast, because there is no way in hell I would be able to eat it.

Like I said before, you might be able to eat that much in one sitting, and you may feel like your body likes it, but why you have to project that onto all powerlifters, bodybuilders and athletes alike is beyond me.

Do what works for you, and I will continue to do what works for me.

Huh? I lost your respect for my opinion and you spout such reasoning? Ok mate, I am going to challenge you. Define healthy. Come on, do it. What is healthy? How do you measure healthy? Do measure you it via what you eat in one meal? Or one's overall diet? Oh wait, you have no fucking clue, guess why? because no one can give you a definition of what a healthy diet is composed of.

And 1000 calories in one sitting? That is nothing. Fair play, I will give it to you and make it 800 calories. Shit, Ill be wimpy friendly and make it 700 calories. That is nothing, if you cannot sit down and eat some chicken with some potatoes and some cheese, then I suggest you stop wearing fanny packs.

And what do you say is beyond you? Huh? I did not project my style of diet to powerlifters, bodybuilders and such. I said that there is no nutritional research targeted to the bodybuilding population, just to athletes in general, and some in strength athletes. For fucks sake, learn to read and dont put words in my mouth.

And yeah, I will do what works for me, you bet that.