How many pods do you normally use at one time?

[Valium]

it depends on the pods, where they come from, how much they yield....

i recall a batch of qual-egg size pods which were so intense i almost dropped dead from consuming 1/3 cup of a brew made from 5 of the tiny tiny pods. devils they were.

and then there was this ultra expensive upscale pod the size of dick cheney's head which did nothing but give me constipation....

with pods....size dont matta.

 

[rachamim]

True.

 

[Scootster]

So, Rachamim, the fresher the pod, the better? Can they be frozen,either fresh (green) or dried??

 

[mmmCHRISx]

What chain stores carry poppy pods?

 

[Akomplice]

I remember reading about people overdosing from poppy tea made from seeds..


http://poppyseedtea.com/


Talks about a guy who ingests tea he made from 3.5 lbs of seeds.

The autopsy revealed a morphine concentration in his blood and urine that was higher than the lethal levels. The coroner's lab also analyzed an infusion of poppy seeds prepared with the same batch of seeds and confirmed that the concentration of morphine was extremely high and had the same morphine-codeine signature detected in the autopsy.

http://poppyseedtea.com/Poppy_Tea_Analysis.html

There's the coroner's report stating the poppy tea contained


219 ng/ml of Free Morphine 219 ng/ml, 1880 ng/ml of Morphine-3-glucuronide, 385 ng/ml of Morphine-6-glucuronide.


There was 1.88 mgs of Morphine-3-Glucuronide per ml.
There was .385 mgs of Morphine-6-glucuronide
There was .219 mgs of free Morphine




That means there was 1880 mgs of morphine-3-Glucuronide in ONE LITER of tea using seeds.
219 mgs of Free morphine per liter of tea
And 385 mgs of Morphine-6-glucuronide per liter of tea

That's 2484 Mgs of morphine per liter.

Supposedly the kid drank 2 liters of tea, which is a lot but could be done. That's 4968 mgs of morphine.

Now I don't know too much about the pharmokenetics of morphine so I don't know too much about the different types of morphine named in the report but regardless, that's a shit load of morphine.

Here's the links to the tox report, coroners report, and chem reports.


BUA

http://poppyseedtea.com/Blood_urine_analysis.html



Coroners Report

http://poppyseedtea.com/Coroner_report.html


Poppy Tea Analysis

http://poppyseedtea.com/Poppy_Tea_Analysis.html



So I don't know about all this "There's no morphine in seeds" and "you need 16,000 grams of pods to get 100mgs of morphine...



Cause it's bullshit.

Oh there was also 19mgs of codeine per liter of tea.





All this was made using SEEDS...




So I don't know how reliable all your sources are, but either this kid got the holy grail of seeds or your data is a little off. Granted I'm sure he got some bomb seeds, but they don't very that much.


So I'm sure pods contain just as much if not more morphine content...




Peace,

-Akomplice

 

[rachamim]

Scootster: The best are Technically Ripe, which is a biological stage roughly 2 weeks after the last petal from the flower has naturally dropped off. the pod will be a bit more oval, have a different texture, feels a bit like felt is the best way to describe it, and will begin changing a colour a bit, a bit bluer on the green.

As the plant grows its alakloidal contet increases, until Tech. Ripeness, and then from there decreases pretty rapidly. They are usually well dead 60 days after entering Tech. Ripeness. Alkaloids of course are still present but have been degrading for awhile and will continue to degrade

Chris: Your best bet is a Floral Wholesaler who specialises in dried flowers. Most major American cities have them.

 

[rachamim]

Akomplice: Sadly you have not read this thread. We have talked about the case you refer to (Seed Tea Death).

Not to put you down but if you believe seeds contain alkaloids you have not even begun to understand the plant. Please do actual research ABOUT THE PLANT, not spurious sites that may or may have not been created by grieving parents. Seeds contain ALOT of fats and acids which do nothing but give you a stomach ache, that siw hy most people clean their seeds and discard them, or better yet, plant them.

Let me clarify though, there IS one alkaloid in seeds but it is not psychoactive and only in a trace amount and unrelated to the Big -5 (morphine, codeine, etc). For all intensive purposes it is completely accurate to say seeds NEVER contain ANY alkaloids.

 

[Scootster]

Can one freeze the pods at the stage you are speaking of, Rash? By the way, I live in the North Woods of Michigan, 30 miles from the nearest town, and I find your posts and experiences most fascinating. I'm an amateur botanist, and it sounds like you lead an adventurous lifestyle. I am most envious.

 

[QuasiStoned]

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0503/mg0503.html
Now from what I understand, dried poppies that are ordered online are not harvested at the proper time and most of the morphine has degraded, right? According to the DEA, they seized poppies from an online seller and tested the morphine levels.

This is the section about the poppy pods:

The DEA Western Laboratory (San Francisco, California) recently received some usual submissions of suspected opium poppies, including some that were artificially colored (see Photo 8). The poppies were purchased over the Internet by the DEA San Jose Regional Office (combined net mass of three purchases 6.899 kilograms). The dried poppies were being advertised as "floral decorations". The purchases eventually led to the seizures of 3 boxes of dried poppies from a storage locker in Sacramento, and then an additional 42 boxes of dried poppies from a warehouse in Santa Paula (California). In total, the combined seizures equaled about 25,500 pods, with a net mass of about 120.8 kilograms. The poppy pods were similar in shape but ranged in height from ½ to 2 inches. The poppies were bundled in sets of 15-20 smaller poppies, or 3-10 larger poppies, either wrapped with rubber bands or contained in plastic flower sleeves. Most of the poppies were a natural light brown color, but (as noted above) many were dyed in different colors, including purple, blue, orange, pink, and yellow. Analysis by GC/FID and GC/MS confirmed morphine and codeine. Quantitation of a typical pod indicated 1.72 milligrams of morphine, which extrapolates to about 44 grams of morphine for the entire seizure. This is the first opium poppy case of this size and origin to be submitted to the Western Laboratory, and the first poppy case of any type in several years.

Now according to their testing a typical pod contained about 1.72 milligrams of morphine. These were poppies that were probably not harvested for opium production, but nearly 2mg of morphine per pod is much more than some of the estimates I've read from rachamim earlier in this thread.

Rachamim, what do you think? Is the DEA just making these numbers up, or do you think that these were harvested at technical ripeness? It seems to me that these are likely the same kinds of poppies that many of us order (with the exception of some of these being dyed different colors), grown for commercial sales and not for technical ripeness.

I read about this almost a month ago and immediatly thought of this thread, but I was on a public computer and couldn't access bluelight (contained forbidden words, sex, lol) and forgot about it until today.

 

[rachamim]

The last post: 44 grams of morphine from an estimated 25,000 pods? You actually need me to debunk THAT? Do the math. Do not look at a single DEA Report, the same agency that believes marijuana automatically leads to heroin addiction and that LSD will damage your genome, and instead research the issue yourself. I have given all the signposts you should need to sniff out the issue.

To answer other questions you posed, you are correct, if they were intended for the floral trade they would be much less than as Tech, Ripe. However, while I enjoy technical reports from the DEA they are the same people that tell the world that "Tar" heroin is made from acetylated opium, and THAT comes from their Forensic Chemists. Oh, and the precious, "Heroin is now so pure people do not need to inject it! They can even smoke or insufflate it" hahahaha. come on man, think for yourself.

I do not know about their being dyed different colours and that in fact raises all kind of questions. I would imagine they were typical floral products, dead on the stem but with that scenario anything could be happening. I know for a fact though that dead pos would never have that much opium. In a Technically Ripe pod, the total opium yield will be less than 300 mgs over 5 lancings. That opium will average 10% purity, meaninf 30 mgs of morphine. The plant itself, meaning other than opium, is going to have minscule amounts so think on that and then decide if the DEA sounds accurate. They rarely are but that is neither here nor there I suppose.

On the forbidden sites, hahaha. Yeah, sometimes I would be at the library in NYC and running late so would log on and found myself blocked from all kinds of crap, especially IM but then some bright people developed 3rd Party Portals, which also work for forbidden content blockages.

Scootster: Thank you for the kind words. Yeah, you CAN freeze them but that degardes the alkaloidal content faster. Isolated and purified morphine is highly stable outside of light and excessive cold or heat, but in its natural form it degrades rather quickly.

Northern Michagan is fine country to grow , isolated in many places as well especially on the peninsula. Funny you think of my life as an adventure when it is more like a clster fuc^&. Living on Mindanao, while 9 different guriella armies battle 7 allied armies on the govt's side is not fun at all. 105 MM Howitzers can ruin anyone's day hahaha. Cambodia is fun though! The NPA here is getting me very nervous, they just started issuing very threatening manifesots over the Gaza situation and I am well known here as one of only 2 Israelis on the island. Fun it is certainly not. Enjoy the snow there!

 

[Kenaz]

Akomplice: Sadly you have not read this thread. We have talked about the case you refer to (Seed Tea Death).

Not to put you down but if you believe seeds contain alkaloids you have not even begun to understand the plant. Please do actual research ABOUT THE PLANT, not spurious sites that may or may have not been created by grieving parents. Seeds contain ALOT of fats and acids which do nothing but give you a stomach ache, that siw hy most people clean their seeds and discard them, or better yet, plant them.

Or, if you want to have a traditional Lithuanian Christmas, you can make Aguonu Pienas:

• 1 cup poppy seeds
• 1 quart of water
• 1/2 cup sugar or honey (more or less to taste)

Pour boiling water over poppy seeds to cover. Let set for 4 hours. Drain. Process scalded poppy seeds in food processor, food mill or grinder. Pour the quart of boiled water over the processed poppy seeds. Add sugar and stir until sugar dissolves. Chill the milk. Can be served strained or unstrained.​

If you made this with very hot, not boiling water, and used unwashed seeds, you might just have yourself a VERY merry little Christmas.

My maternal grandmother was a second-generation Litvak: I may just have to try this in honor of my roots.

 

[rachamim]

Litvak? Litvak is Yiddish, and she was making Xmas treats? Those poppies MUST be good!

Of course though, if you take it form a ripe pod, and do not clean them, I am sure some people will feel it.

 

[Kenaz]

Litvak? Litvak is Yiddish, and she was making Xmas treats? Those poppies MUST be good!

Of course though, if you take it form a ripe pod, and do not clean them, I am sure some people will feel it.

Interesting: I had always heard Lithuanians referred to as "Litvaks" among a few of my Ukrainian family members who, to the best of my knowledge, were good Catholics (or reasonably good Catholics, anyway).

I have never had this particular treat, but thought it was a rather interesting tradition and one which I thought deserved to be preserved and honored.

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I remembered that my Ukrainian grandfather's family was actually Carpatho-Rusyn -- ethnic Ukrainians living in what was then the Austro-Hungarian Empire. With that in mind, it makes sense that their Ukrainian would be influenced by German and bear at least some similarities to Yiddish.

 

[daddysgone]

RACHAMIM RACHAMIM RACHAMIM

i dont know where to begin. let me first say that i have ALWAYS enjoyed your posts and almost without exception, find your posts to be informative, intelligent and accurate.
Its for this reason that I am so surprised to hear you stubbornly spouting such erroneous information about dried pods.
There are about 5 different avenues i could pursue that would cast a spotlight on how wrong you are regarding your insistence that there are such miniscule quantities of morphine in dried pods. however, there is one such thing i will discuss that should completely dispel what you are insisting.

in a former life, i, many many times, performed a complete morphine extraction on dried pods. its a long, tedious process involving much de-fatting amongst other steps. the end result is pure morphine base. when performing these extractions i would start with 1000 grams of pulverized dried pods. the pods used were quite large, averaging about 5 grams per de-seeded pod. now, as with any extraction, the yield varied from batch to batch, but the LOWEST yield i ever collected was approximately 500 mgs for the 1000 grams of powder. i have regularly had morphine yields of up to 1.3 grams for the 1000 grams of dried powder. i will also add that these extractions were done on pods from varied sources-in the event that you are thinking i ascertained some sort of uber-pods.
so as you can see, the tiny numbers you keep suggesting to not even come close to the actual amount of morphine that was extracted from these dried pods.
so there it is. i was repeatedly able to extract around 1000mg of morphine from 1kg of dried pods. by your numbers, i really shouldnt have been able to extract anything appreciable. how do you account for this?

 

[WatMyConditionIsIn]

i use about 10 medium pods slightly larger than a golf ball each. plus grapefruit juice, diphenhydramine, CPM w/ DXM about 1/2 hour before drinking the tea as potentiators. good pods will generally get me quite fucked when used like this. i have also been using otc codeine (extracted) at about 400-500mg average 3x daily so i have a bit of tolerance.

 

[Scootster]

Rash, wow, I didn't think of the warfare side of things over there. That definitely sucketh. On the poppy side of things, I find that the soil composition here is highly conducive to poppy growth. I began scattering seed in November, but it's getting VERY cold as of late, night time temperatures of -5 to -20 degrees F for 2-3 hours a time. Is this too low to expect much of a survival rate? I'm starting to doubt that I can EVER expect a springtime harvest of any type. I do plan to plant on the edge of the snow melt this year, I've obtained a copy of "Opium for the Masses", it's quite an interesting read.

 

[rachamim]

Kenaz: It is certainly possible that Litvak is rooted in, or even borrowed by another language. It is pretty common. Look at English speakers talk about "bagels," or buying "tchochkes," or calling someone a "shmuck."

DaddysGone: OK, cool. What am I going to do? Argue that you never did something? Of course you never did but it is not something I even care about. You are arguing ("Arguing" is too harsh a word but it is is what it is in the vernacular) something based upon your subjective experience, with no data to back it up. YOU used "1000 grams," because you say you did. YOU netted so many grams of morphine, BECAUSE you say you did. On ther hand the plant is throughly quantified botanically and explored as far as the targetted alkaloids, there are no unknown values.

Most years (not this one though) I grow a bit over 4 hectares of poppy, I have had alot of experimentation as well given the fact that I average 1.3 million plants per hectare and average 5 pods per plant. I do not enjoy being abrasive, I do not enjoy dispeling people's tightly held convictions but it is what it is. If anything, I think I may be too anal retentive about "truth" and "honesty."

That combined with my love of this particular plant leads me to bother myself (and some others) chiming in a thread like this where as it would be far more simpler to allow people to think what they would on an in issue that does not threaten life or limb (despite the claims of one spurious website SUPPOSEDLY made by grieving parents).

A person who claims to have done an actual extraction (as opposed to making Tea (technically an "extraction" but so simple as to not actually qualify in the minds of most as one) so many times, on a kilo worth of pods would certainly know that "defatting" ANYTHING is a ridiculous idea. Why would you "defat" it? the idea is absurd. I would not say this to Mello because he admits that he is just learning and as such I would imagine he is very curious and so he is entertaining ideas, good and bad. Such people should be encouraged to experiment as long as it is done in a safe manner, no matter how wasteful it may be. You however claim to be an old hand .

SEEDS contain acids and oils, and the only thing that needs to be done to "defat" any concoction is to simply NOT use seeds. To pound the nail, you say you use "deseeded pods," so THAT would not even be an issue AT ALL. Look, you find value in the substance (meaning Tea) great, as I have said. However, please do not start introducing fantasy ino the discussion. You want to argue the info, not a problem. Do it based on facts. Dig the data, do the caluclations and even better, do the leg work. Do a real extraction. 1000 grams? Man that is a joke.

Before BL Journals were lost in cyberspace I actually discussed the last real extraction I did, a few here will remember it. 4 hecs worth of pods, no seeds, all technically ripe, and I ended up with with roughly 1000 grams, actually a bit less (which I managed to boost by acetylating which gives you a bit more weight as well as lipid solubilty and boosted effect, blah, blah and more blah).

This is with actual chemicals, actual technical knowledge and experience and unilimited precuror materiel. An estimated 20 million Pods, LITERALLY, gave a kilo worth of purified morphine from a Straw Extraction.

Now, for those actually giving a shi% about technical knowledge, and I am sorry to think that there will not be that many, I do NOT have the machinery needed to do an effective extraction a la "Kabay," etc and I readily admit that this would have perhaps gioven me an aditional 500 grams but that would then mean paerhaps 13 million pods to gain the 1000 grams? Anyway, I am afraid it is really non-sensical to discuss it this far in depth because people who make Tea out of a few pods, and enjpy it, would not and should not care how many millions of pods make so many grams, etc.

Scootster: Oh yes, it is hell here. I get a laugh about how Westerners whine about Gaza when much of the world is many times worse on any given day and most people will never even know it.


Here we have the govt with OV-10 planes and MG-520 gunships and 50 cal guns running day and night, 105 MM Howitzers peppering the hills (I lie in a valley in the Diwata Mountains in East Central Mindanao (Agusan del Sur Province in the Caraga Region, on the borders of Surigao del Sur and Comval (Composteal Valley) Provinces. I am in the epicenter of the communist insurgency in the the Philippines. Front 20 is the usual band of NPA but there are 2 other Fronts in proximity as well as Sparrow Squads (assasination teams).

However, as fun as that is it is nothing at all like what most on this island have to deal with. 8 Muslims armies, all with many different factions are fighting against the Govt and allied paramilitaries. Abu Sayyaf, JI (Bali Bomers), MILF, MNLF, RSM, Abu Sofia, al Khobar and on and on it goes. Then you have Clan Warfare just like Somalia and even more pirates than Somalia, although they are smart enough not to try and attack foreign navies and cruise ships. The southern Philippines is quite a place.

The country is 7,107 islands about 1200 kilometers north to south and the govt is at the very top. We are on our own for all intensive purposes and so on this, the biggest island in the south (18 million people) just about anyone with money has good weaponry. You can get anything you want here, if you can pay, except heroin (go figure) but I actually mean in terms of weaponry. There are entire villages where they hand make pitch perfect weapons from a magazine picture (I saw the same thing in Pakistan actually). The new fad? This young guy has made a bundle with a variation (much improved) on the Baby Uzi (Mini Uzi) and that piece is NICE.

OK, I do not know your general location so I cannot give grow you tips, and in any regard I know the Mods are trying to discourage botanical discussions in this particular forum but if you have botanical questions you can PM me or ask in my BL Blog. Just an assumption based on your temps, you will be fine IF you plant about .5 mm depth only, and mulch heavily BEFORE heavy frost but that is too far gone now. Wait until spring, last frost and broadcast the seed, cover with a mm of alkaline soil - and thin after a month, 1 plant per 3 cm. That is just a rule of thumb for the temp. zone.

On the book. I like Jim Hogshire but he really has no idea what he is talking about 9 times out of 10, when it comes to opiates/opioids and poppy. I give him an A plus for attitude and effort though, and that is often almost as important as technical know how. I also LOVED his zine, I have the compendium (Pill-A-GoGo was one of the best psychoactive zines anywhere and in the area of Rx in general HE is very well versed).

 

[Scootster]

Damn, everything you wanted to know about the Philippines but are freakin terrified to ask!And I'm up here whining about the cold...and briefly, most of my flowers are under a thick layer of long grass so they have protection. They'll pop up LONG before that grass has a chance to.

 

[daddysgone]

RACH

i am baffled at your recent conversion. not that you care, but i must say that i much prefer the "old" rachamim that gave informed information and wasn't a complete and total obnoxious douche.
So apparently the reason that I DID NOT perform the extractions I claimed to, is because you said so.
On another note, does it mean nothing to you when you have an entire community stating one thing, and one lone voice arguing the exact opposite. Person after person listing high level of opioid tolerance and dependence have stated that a strong dose of pod tea can not only hold them but provide a strong a quite lengthy, typical opioid high. oh right...thats pure placebo right? now of course placebo can and often does produce an effect, but lets please try and have some perspective. given your own tolerance, do you really think that if i replaced your normal dose with placebo, your body would not know the difference? the miniscule amounts of alkaloids that YOU state are found within dried pods are not nearly enough to produce an effect in anyone, let alone an opioid tolerant individual. so whats going on here? an entire community of people experiencing full on opioid effects due solely to placebo?
another interesting thing that bears mentioning is the length of a pod tea high that nearly all users report. an ongoing mystery to those that use pod tea is that the high lasts in excess of 12 hours. I am well aware that given the quantities of the minor alkaloids found in pod tea, one would expect the experience to be near identical to that of morphine. but for those that use pod tea, you will find that most report effects lasting all day. i can attest to this personally, while even high doses of plain morphine last only 4-5 hours max. so there is another question for you. why would a placebo effect last so much longer then the drug it mimics? i think its clear that despite the low percentages of the minor alkaloids, there is SOMETHING at play here which accounts for such a lengthy effect.

obviously there is no point in arguing about this further. youve made up your mind and so have i. despite your acres of pods and your obvious knowledge regarding the plant, you happen to be very wrong on this particular matter. not because i say so, but also because nearly everyone else says so. and while its true that the masses tend to be idiots, they do tend to know if they are high or not.

 

[ArtVandalay]

^
Well put!!