DCBAe
Bluelighter
I need those amounts too to obtain euphoria, i ve got a heroin habit a the time and now a methadone habit, but nowadays i dont use pods at all or heroin that much, maybe once in 3 months..
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
How many pods do you normally use at one time?
- Thread starter BASEjumper
- Start date
I need those amounts too to obtain euphoria, i ve got a heroin habit a the time and now a methadone habit, but nowadays i dont use pods at all or heroin that much, maybe once in 3 months..
DCBAe
Bluelighter
i have bought from holland suppliers too.
In the morning I powder 20 5"-6" circumference pods. I take saved grounds from the previous day, cook those up a second time, strain, throw away the soggy two-day old grounds, then use that tea as the water for the un-used grounds. After straining those, I freeze them for the next day.
This is the most efficient way I've found to use pods. It allowed me to stop the much more expensive, dangerous, and time consuming act of copping dope every morning. It also seems that from here, taking 24 hour breaks every 7-10 days (to shit, cum, whatever) tolerance has really slowed in its growth.
This is the most efficient way I've found to use pods. It allowed me to stop the much more expensive, dangerous, and time consuming act of copping dope every morning. It also seems that from here, taking 24 hour breaks every 7-10 days (to shit, cum, whatever) tolerance has really slowed in its growth.
DCBAe
Bluelighter
Did that too many mornings, i would wake up most days at 6:30 to make the tea or chase the foil if ive save any from last day.. Would go to work and at noon i would try to score...
And now im on boring methadone, alltought i has saved my life, i miss the euphoria from opiates, even miss the effect i would get from stuff like codeine and tramadol, ohh.. But Methadone saves lifes.
Damn you guys seem to use a lot more than me. I usually grind up 2-3 large pods which are about the size of a tennis ball. All together it equals about 6-7 tablespoons (powder). This gets me felling pretty good, any more and the nodding is just ridiculous.
QuasiStoned
Bluelighter
About 9 mediums
kratom luver
Greenlighter
I need about 120mg methadone to get high and have estimated that this is the equivalent to a dose of 280g pod straw (which is the dose of pod straw required to get me high). This is a bucket full of pods. Unfortunately it takes me too long to prepare this quantity of pods for it to be worth using.
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rachamim
Bluelighter
It seems like noone sees the "it s worthless for a heavy opiate/opioid user."
Using 30 pods is not going to change that. Everyone has this idea that pods have some kind of synergestic effect from all the alkaloids. First, there only 2 alkaloids present in anything more than less than 1% quantieis: morphine and codeine. Since codeine only has psychoactivity through its metabolic conversion to morphine, you are only talking about morphine, that is it, end of story.
In fact, since codeine has practically 0 solubility in anything warmer than room temprature (unless your room is a sauna hahaha), you are only gaining morphine from pods when you make tea.
How much morphine are you getting even from 100 pods? Anyone care to guess (of if anyone knows) the average morphine content in a technically ripe DRIED pod? I will give you a huge hint? NOT ALOT (smile).
OK, time to bust some bubbles and make more enemies. Maybe a year or 2 ago we did a thread just like this and I explained, as I will now, just how much "psychoactivity ("high") you could gain from pod tea (do not even get me started about seeds!).
To put in a way that is easily understood by most here, to get 100 mgs. or morphine, you need to use 8 THOUSAND (8,000) GRAMS of dried pod!!! Anyone wish to guess just how much a single dried pod weighs?
Then, EVEN IF you use these 8,000 grams, you would only get these 100 mgs., IF you had 100% extraction on the morphine, the only alkaloid you will be able to really extract when making tea. The average extraction rate in tea, and this is a clinical number not out of the air, is 40 to 50% net! So, using the 40 to 50% net, you then need AT LEAST 16 THOUSAND GRAMS OF DRIED POPPY PODS to get a stinking 100 mgs. of morphine!
Now, to piss people off even more, when you use tea you naturally do so by drinking it. Ergo, you are ORALLY consuming your 100 mgs. of morphine which means your body is only getting 33.33 mgs out of 16,000 GRAMS OF DRIED PODS!!!!!!!
Wonder how long it would take you to pulversise 16,000 grams of pods hahahahahahaha.
On a more serious note, to the poster who talked of boiling, etc. Boiling destroys morphine BUT if you are only talking about a very short boil with a tiny bit of materiel it is not really an issue as I see it. Better not to boil but in the end I do not think you will see a discernible difference.
To those who will be very angry because they love their pod tea, more power to you. Enjoy it all you can because IF you dare to use stronger opiates/opioids, OR alternatively use tea for an extended period of time you will gain absolutely no psychoactive benefit from it.
If people want data, the average pod, technically ripe, unscored (meaning not harvested of its opium), and totally dried will have a total morphine content of about .028% of the pod's total weight. Notice the 3 decimal places, yes? Visualise the number I am telling you. Weigh one dried pod, even use the seeds if you dare even though seeds contain no alkaloids and only cause stomach problems UNLESS they contain a residual coating of opiated dust on a few in the bunch. .028%. That is it.
Using 30 pods is not going to change that. Everyone has this idea that pods have some kind of synergestic effect from all the alkaloids. First, there only 2 alkaloids present in anything more than less than 1% quantieis: morphine and codeine. Since codeine only has psychoactivity through its metabolic conversion to morphine, you are only talking about morphine, that is it, end of story.
In fact, since codeine has practically 0 solubility in anything warmer than room temprature (unless your room is a sauna hahaha), you are only gaining morphine from pods when you make tea.
How much morphine are you getting even from 100 pods? Anyone care to guess (of if anyone knows) the average morphine content in a technically ripe DRIED pod? I will give you a huge hint? NOT ALOT (smile).
OK, time to bust some bubbles and make more enemies. Maybe a year or 2 ago we did a thread just like this and I explained, as I will now, just how much "psychoactivity ("high") you could gain from pod tea (do not even get me started about seeds!).
To put in a way that is easily understood by most here, to get 100 mgs. or morphine, you need to use 8 THOUSAND (8,000) GRAMS of dried pod!!! Anyone wish to guess just how much a single dried pod weighs?
Then, EVEN IF you use these 8,000 grams, you would only get these 100 mgs., IF you had 100% extraction on the morphine, the only alkaloid you will be able to really extract when making tea. The average extraction rate in tea, and this is a clinical number not out of the air, is 40 to 50% net! So, using the 40 to 50% net, you then need AT LEAST 16 THOUSAND GRAMS OF DRIED POPPY PODS to get a stinking 100 mgs. of morphine!
Now, to piss people off even more, when you use tea you naturally do so by drinking it. Ergo, you are ORALLY consuming your 100 mgs. of morphine which means your body is only getting 33.33 mgs out of 16,000 GRAMS OF DRIED PODS!!!!!!!
Wonder how long it would take you to pulversise 16,000 grams of pods hahahahahahaha.
On a more serious note, to the poster who talked of boiling, etc. Boiling destroys morphine BUT if you are only talking about a very short boil with a tiny bit of materiel it is not really an issue as I see it. Better not to boil but in the end I do not think you will see a discernible difference.
To those who will be very angry because they love their pod tea, more power to you. Enjoy it all you can because IF you dare to use stronger opiates/opioids, OR alternatively use tea for an extended period of time you will gain absolutely no psychoactive benefit from it.
If people want data, the average pod, technically ripe, unscored (meaning not harvested of its opium), and totally dried will have a total morphine content of about .028% of the pod's total weight. Notice the 3 decimal places, yes? Visualise the number I am telling you. Weigh one dried pod, even use the seeds if you dare even though seeds contain no alkaloids and only cause stomach problems UNLESS they contain a residual coating of opiated dust on a few in the bunch. .028%. That is it.
rachamim
Bluelighter
Kratom: Either your math is way off or your idea of actual morphine contant is. Either way you are right, it is useless for you.
CloudyHazeD
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 1,808
Big tolerance, here.
I use 12-14 or so of the 'mammoth' size. ( 70 to 80 grams powdered, after stem, knuckle, and crown removed)...........
I use 12-14 or so of the 'mammoth' size. ( 70 to 80 grams powdered, after stem, knuckle, and crown removed)...........
CloudyHazeD
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 1,808
rachamim, how is that possible? 
IME...... I need to take 250-300 or so mg of IR morphine oral solution to get a high/nod.
Compared to 80-100 grams of pod powder, for a comparable effect.
I just don't see how the amount of active can be that low in the pods...........(as you describe)
How am I even getting high with such a high tolerance?
IME...... I need to take 250-300 or so mg of IR morphine oral solution to get a high/nod.
Compared to 80-100 grams of pod powder, for a comparable effect.
I just don't see how the amount of active can be that low in the pods...........(as you describe)
How am I even getting high with such a high tolerance?
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CloudyHazeD
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 1,808
According to this link: http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/2619.htm
seeds can 'contain' anywhere from 2–251 ug/g of morphine. (so .002 - .251 mg/g)
So by that.......lets say the higher figure( .250mg/g), you can have some 300mg of morphine on 2.6 pounds of seed.
Pretty sure it's safe to assume pods have more morphine by weight than seeds........no?
seeds can 'contain' anywhere from 2–251 ug/g of morphine. (so .002 - .251 mg/g)
So by that.......lets say the higher figure( .250mg/g), you can have some 300mg of morphine on 2.6 pounds of seed.
Pretty sure it's safe to assume pods have more morphine by weight than seeds........no?
kratom luver
Greenlighter
I thought there was some sort of synergy, with the other alkaloids making the morphine last a lot longer. The reason I thought this is because PPT lasts far longer than pharmaceutical sustained release morphine.
Also, I personally believe that your figures are definitely off, as I need 280g pod straw to get high, whereas 120mg methadone gets me high, but not nearly as intensely as 280g pod straw. I was hesitant in saying this, as you are so intelligent and credible on BL, but I am quite sure about what I am saying.
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rachamim,, your facts are way off IMO or you have never used good pods.
I had been on 4 month heavy binge of dilaudid and percs, vics etc for serious pain.
I found out about pods and was blown away the first time I tried them. It made dilaudid feel weak in comparison and the pods lasted MUCH longer.
I have now had a daily pod habit well over 6 months and just did 5 days of WD and not even close to being over with the symptoms.
Total HELL! Every minute seemed like an eternity. 10 vics would not even take the edge off the WD. The half life of whatever the hell is in raw dried pods is quite long.
Pods are strong, very strong and must be treated with respect. The WD from them is not fun!
I had been on 4 month heavy binge of dilaudid and percs, vics etc for serious pain.
I found out about pods and was blown away the first time I tried them. It made dilaudid feel weak in comparison and the pods lasted MUCH longer.
I have now had a daily pod habit well over 6 months and just did 5 days of WD and not even close to being over with the symptoms.
Total HELL! Every minute seemed like an eternity. 10 vics would not even take the edge off the WD. The half life of whatever the hell is in raw dried pods is quite long.
Pods are strong, very strong and must be treated with respect. The WD from them is not fun!
QuasiStoned
Bluelighter
http://www.poppies.org/2001/07/13/morphine-content-of-lanced-dried-pods/
I included a small snippet from the link I found below.
According to this study, capsules which had already been cut to harvest the opium out of them still were .15 - .34% morphine. That's a lot more than you suggested.
Just throwing that out there. Maybe my link is wrong, but I think pods have to be a little more potent than rachamim belives.
ThermalTech
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2
Man, this is so wrong, being a 3 year lurker i registered just to dismiss this piece of misinformation:
First of all, when you throw nubmers like .028% you need to ref a source. Second of all, regardless of your source, it is wrong. Simply because morphine content of UNREFINED OPIUM varies form 0-35% depending on a strain. If you take average content of opium in pods, and average content of morphine in raw opium you get somwhere around 0.3% (and can go upwards of 1% in case of purpose-grown tasmanians) of morphine in pods. This is on the lower end. Now 3 med-large DRY pods weigh about 10grams, 10g = 10 000mg
10 000 x 0.003 = 30mgs, therefore 30 med-large pods ~300mgs. Fine loose 50% of that in tea making process, it is still 150mgs
I do not have any reference on had (old research) but if google this:
"Poppy straw is defined as the dried poppy head with 10cm of stem, with the seeds and star removed and containing less than 0.2% water. This type of poppy straw is said to contain 040 - 0.60 % morphine by weight."
you will find some leads.
Dont get oral bioavaliability involved here because it has nothing to do whith the topic since wether you eat pods or pills they still go through you the same way as far as morphine metabolism. What matters is the effect you get, and i tell you in my experience eating 60mgs of instant relase morphine suluphate is nowhere near eating 6 large pods/tea in terms of fuckedupedness.
Also your argument on the content of other alkaloids not having any impact because of being under 1% content in latex is really irrelevant. Dont act as if it was impossible for a some substances to be active in microgram range, and how much do we know about papaverine, narcotine, thebaine and all that other shit? Well on its own might not be so active but anyone with experience in pods and pharm morphine will tell you that it is not just morphine high. It last MUCH longer and is more "restless". I actually get euphoria from pods, but not from MSIR.
Oh i did research your magic number and it seems .028 would be weak content in FRESH PODS, which is like 80 water weight. Dry it up and you get 0.028x5=0.14
And I also am willing to bet anything that there is not a single person on this world capable of ingesting "8000gs worth of pods" tea (reduced to drinkable amount of liquid) without dying.
People who dont get high on pod tea - have high tolerance, shitty batch or something other than papaver somniferum, and/or preapre it all wrong.
First of all, when you throw nubmers like .028% you need to ref a source. Second of all, regardless of your source, it is wrong. Simply because morphine content of UNREFINED OPIUM varies form 0-35% depending on a strain. If you take average content of opium in pods, and average content of morphine in raw opium you get somwhere around 0.3% (and can go upwards of 1% in case of purpose-grown tasmanians) of morphine in pods. This is on the lower end. Now 3 med-large DRY pods weigh about 10grams, 10g = 10 000mg
10 000 x 0.003 = 30mgs, therefore 30 med-large pods ~300mgs. Fine loose 50% of that in tea making process, it is still 150mgs
I do not have any reference on had (old research) but if google this:
"Poppy straw is defined as the dried poppy head with 10cm of stem, with the seeds and star removed and containing less than 0.2% water. This type of poppy straw is said to contain 040 - 0.60 % morphine by weight."
you will find some leads.
Dont get oral bioavaliability involved here because it has nothing to do whith the topic since wether you eat pods or pills they still go through you the same way as far as morphine metabolism. What matters is the effect you get, and i tell you in my experience eating 60mgs of instant relase morphine suluphate is nowhere near eating 6 large pods/tea in terms of fuckedupedness.
Also your argument on the content of other alkaloids not having any impact because of being under 1% content in latex is really irrelevant. Dont act as if it was impossible for a some substances to be active in microgram range, and how much do we know about papaverine, narcotine, thebaine and all that other shit? Well on its own might not be so active but anyone with experience in pods and pharm morphine will tell you that it is not just morphine high. It last MUCH longer and is more "restless". I actually get euphoria from pods, but not from MSIR.
Oh i did research your magic number and it seems .028 would be weak content in FRESH PODS, which is like 80 water weight. Dry it up and you get 0.028x5=0.14
And I also am willing to bet anything that there is not a single person on this world capable of ingesting "8000gs worth of pods" tea (reduced to drinkable amount of liquid) without dying.
People who dont get high on pod tea - have high tolerance, shitty batch or something other than papaver somniferum, and/or preapre it all wrong.
QuasiStoned
Bluelighter
I quoted that from this thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=339373&highlight=poppy
Had to point out a bit of a contradiction here. Today you said to get 100mg you'd need 8,000 grams of dried pods. Last year in the other thread you suggested that 20 pods a day might be about 175mg. 20 dried pods isn't likely over 8,000 grams is it?
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ThermalTech
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2
SOME REFERENCES:
The morphine content of dry capsule-chaff is about 0.25 per cent to 0.5 per cent, when not washed out by rain. Here again there are low-yielding and high-yielding varieties, but proper agricultural selection of poppies for morphine production means taking into account not only the percentage yield of morphine, but also the total weight of capsule-chaff produced per hectare, the poppy seed production per hectare, and other factors.
SOURCE: http://www.poppies.org/2001/07/13/the-opium-alkaloids/
MORE REFERENCES :
A comparison of all the morphine-per-capsule values shows little increase from first to second harvest (13.0 mg/capsule v. 13.4 mg/capsule or 3 per cent). Thus the major contribution to the increase in morphine content is the 17.5 per cent increase in the number of capsules between the two harvests. An apparent decrease from 0.52 to 0.31 per cent in the average morphine content as a percentage of dry solids is somewhat misleading. Since the material harvested at maturity is approximately 50 per cent seed by weight, after separation of the seed the remaining capsular material would have a morphine concentration of about 0.62 per cent.
source: Poppies.org
Depending on where you get your data from, the average morphine content in straw is between .3% and 1%.
Poppies that are used exclusively for Morphine Production, I believe that they are all more towards 1%-3%.
Tasmania had record Morphine levels for Poppy Straw last year around 2% and 3 %.
You can see just how different 1 Poppy could be from another, this is why start low is always the best advise.
Morphine content in dry pods, discussions:
http://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=14048
https://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=8728&mode=linearplus
http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=388958
The morphine content of dry capsule-chaff is about 0.25 per cent to 0.5 per cent, when not washed out by rain. Here again there are low-yielding and high-yielding varieties, but proper agricultural selection of poppies for morphine production means taking into account not only the percentage yield of morphine, but also the total weight of capsule-chaff produced per hectare, the poppy seed production per hectare, and other factors.
SOURCE: http://www.poppies.org/2001/07/13/the-opium-alkaloids/
MORE REFERENCES :
A comparison of all the morphine-per-capsule values shows little increase from first to second harvest (13.0 mg/capsule v. 13.4 mg/capsule or 3 per cent). Thus the major contribution to the increase in morphine content is the 17.5 per cent increase in the number of capsules between the two harvests. An apparent decrease from 0.52 to 0.31 per cent in the average morphine content as a percentage of dry solids is somewhat misleading. Since the material harvested at maturity is approximately 50 per cent seed by weight, after separation of the seed the remaining capsular material would have a morphine concentration of about 0.62 per cent.
source: Poppies.org
Depending on where you get your data from, the average morphine content in straw is between .3% and 1%.
Poppies that are used exclusively for Morphine Production, I believe that they are all more towards 1%-3%.
Tasmania had record Morphine levels for Poppy Straw last year around 2% and 3 %.
You can see just how different 1 Poppy could be from another, this is why start low is always the best advise.
Morphine content in dry pods, discussions:
http://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=14048
https://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=8728&mode=linearplus
http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=388958
rachamim
Bluelighter
CloudyHazed: Seeds do not contain one iota of ANY alkaloid, and contain NOTHING that offers psychoactivity in the slightest. HOWEVER, IF you take seeds from a technically ripe and unscored pod, and do not wash or purposely separate materiel, you run a very good chance of having at least some residual alkaloidal coating.
"Your source.": The paper looks highly suspect to say the least. I do not have the time now to verify anything about it but can tell you without doing anything that allowing subjects to consume one substance to verify a particular constituent of said substance is not only counter-intuitive but completely useless. Metabolism will render that claim null and void.
Were subjects tested for opiate/opioid usage prior to the trial? In what manner were they tested? Given the highly subjective variability of the metabolic process, how would measuring presence in one's system then translate into constituency in the targetted object?
Anyway,(as I just said) seeds NEVER have alkaloids IN them, but rarely they will have them ON them. I am a person who hates when people play the "semantics card" but here is actually a very crucial piece of the puzzle. You CAN find papers that use the word "in" instead of "on" and that CAN cause misconceptions. However, alot of the time it happens with translated papers (ALOT of chemistry and science in general is written in German) and this is not then the fault of the author, but rather a translator or editor.
Kratom: "Synergy.": Yeah, I mentioned that as you can see. Alot of folks do believe that and it MIGHT have a tiny effect when using different ROAs but not when consuming a water based extract of Somniferum pods. You have to examine the solubility indexes of Somniferum's psychoactive alkaloids to understand just why this is. In a normal Somni pod (as opposed to an abberation/mutation or specially bred variety like "Norman" or any of the "Prz" strains which concentrate on thebaine content at the expense of the morphine and codeine) the 2 alkaloids you are dealing with are morphine and codeine, with morphine being the predominant between them. Psychoactivity then depends on the morphine because as I believe I must have stated earlier, codeine is metabolised into morphine when consumed.
Morphine is most soluble in VERY warm water, while codeine is tha diametric opposite with a corresponding increase in solubility as you move away from the tems. most conducive to extracting morphine. Codeine is best extracted with VERY COLD water. Making tea, you will not get very much codeine at all, and any you do get will psycoactively score as morphine. Ergo, synergy is going to be psychological if anything in Pod Tea.
"Figures must be off.": Please refer to the Kabay route for morphine extraction which relies on a whole straw extraction as opposed to a route directly from opium. When you investigate this route, and 2 other related rotures you will have a tonne of data and it will be the easiest way for a person to determine if what I am saying is at all correct.
All the more because Kabay, et al rely on technically ripened pods where as the pods commercialy sold for the Floral Industry (i.e. the ones almost always used to perpare Pod Tea) are dried on the stalk and as such have significantly LESS alkaloidal content than ones used to commercially extract morphine and codeine.
As to just why you get such and such effect from such and such amount of pods or straw, noone will be able to answer that of course. I can talk all day about the Placebo Effect and psychosomatic reasoning but in the end you have to come to conclusions based on data and not subjective reasoning. In the end what is most important is how you the consumer feels, and that is what should satisfy you. I mean, if I produce 1,000 pages of data saying one thing, but you yourself feel a completely different thing, what really matters?
Quasi: "Figres from poppy.org.": There are a whole range of things to consider. Namely, state of pods examined. "Technical Ripeness" is a biological stage during which Somni , aside from undergoing quantifiable physical changes produces the most opium, and the time during which opium itself has the most psychoactive alkaloids.
Opium is produced in incredibly tiny vessels inside the pod wall, and it is these vessles that allow a pod to have morphine at all. In other words, morphine is not found in pods per se but in the pod's vessles. Technical Ripeness takes place, on average, 10 to 14 days after the individual plant's last petal has dropped. After 14 days the alkaloidal content diminishes markedly.
When pods are harvested for a straw extraction, a la Kabay Process I mentioned above, they are usually harvested before entering Technical Ripeness by applying a chemical that prematurely withers the plant and this makes mechanical harvesting that much easier (it is exceedinly difficult to mow very green plants).
Alternatively, when harvesting for the Floral Trade, plants are left to wither naturally, on the stalk. So, as I have already explained, if alkaloids are disappearing the further one moves from Technical Ripeness, and the Floral Trade harvests long AFTER Technical Ripeness, common sense (and an actual fact of course) tells us that the pods we find in commercial outlets (meaning OTHER than those we ourselves , or close relations grow) and not going to be comparable to the ones being used in a study like the one you are "quoting."
This of course is also ignoring variabilities attributed to cultivation and more importantly the environment.
Indeed, your Source merely studied 4 Technically Ripe pods that had been lanced! That is a world away from the pods people are getting to make tea. not to pound the nail so to speak, although I do feel this is an extremely worthwhile subject and one people should be aware of. When trying to ascertain data you need a much larger control group/unit than simply picking 4 of anything!
IF I picked 4 pods from a plot SWIM (in my old age I am becoming much less of a daredevil) cultivates, it is absolutely certain that their average content will far exceed almost any commercially available samples due to an almost fanaticism in adhering to proper cultivational techniques. IF one merely used 4 pods, one should pick each one of the 4 from greatly different pools but in the end 4 is not enough to even begin considering something let alone proving it.
Just to also clarify something you said at the end of your post: "AFTER the opium had been harvested" (I am paraphrasing). When one harvests opium manually, i.e. "lances" a pod, they NEVER harvest 100% of the opium. That is impossible. Indeed they would be rendering a pod unusable for any kind of investigation anyway because of contamination and especially CROSS-contamination when the harvester(s) move from plant to plant while utilising the same harvesting implements, and so on.
Rhstu:"Rachamim must have never done pods or only have done very low quality pods...": Obviously I do not think so.
I am not trying to antagonise you but I do have to say that W/D symptoms have absolutely nothing to do with the potency of a substance.
I will get to the rest of the posts in a following post because of the very long length of this one.
"Your source.": The paper looks highly suspect to say the least. I do not have the time now to verify anything about it but can tell you without doing anything that allowing subjects to consume one substance to verify a particular constituent of said substance is not only counter-intuitive but completely useless. Metabolism will render that claim null and void.
Were subjects tested for opiate/opioid usage prior to the trial? In what manner were they tested? Given the highly subjective variability of the metabolic process, how would measuring presence in one's system then translate into constituency in the targetted object?
Anyway,(as I just said) seeds NEVER have alkaloids IN them, but rarely they will have them ON them. I am a person who hates when people play the "semantics card" but here is actually a very crucial piece of the puzzle. You CAN find papers that use the word "in" instead of "on" and that CAN cause misconceptions. However, alot of the time it happens with translated papers (ALOT of chemistry and science in general is written in German) and this is not then the fault of the author, but rather a translator or editor.
Kratom: "Synergy.": Yeah, I mentioned that as you can see. Alot of folks do believe that and it MIGHT have a tiny effect when using different ROAs but not when consuming a water based extract of Somniferum pods. You have to examine the solubility indexes of Somniferum's psychoactive alkaloids to understand just why this is. In a normal Somni pod (as opposed to an abberation/mutation or specially bred variety like "Norman" or any of the "Prz" strains which concentrate on thebaine content at the expense of the morphine and codeine) the 2 alkaloids you are dealing with are morphine and codeine, with morphine being the predominant between them. Psychoactivity then depends on the morphine because as I believe I must have stated earlier, codeine is metabolised into morphine when consumed.
Morphine is most soluble in VERY warm water, while codeine is tha diametric opposite with a corresponding increase in solubility as you move away from the tems. most conducive to extracting morphine. Codeine is best extracted with VERY COLD water. Making tea, you will not get very much codeine at all, and any you do get will psycoactively score as morphine. Ergo, synergy is going to be psychological if anything in Pod Tea.
"Figures must be off.": Please refer to the Kabay route for morphine extraction which relies on a whole straw extraction as opposed to a route directly from opium. When you investigate this route, and 2 other related rotures you will have a tonne of data and it will be the easiest way for a person to determine if what I am saying is at all correct.
All the more because Kabay, et al rely on technically ripened pods where as the pods commercialy sold for the Floral Industry (i.e. the ones almost always used to perpare Pod Tea) are dried on the stalk and as such have significantly LESS alkaloidal content than ones used to commercially extract morphine and codeine.
As to just why you get such and such effect from such and such amount of pods or straw, noone will be able to answer that of course. I can talk all day about the Placebo Effect and psychosomatic reasoning but in the end you have to come to conclusions based on data and not subjective reasoning. In the end what is most important is how you the consumer feels, and that is what should satisfy you. I mean, if I produce 1,000 pages of data saying one thing, but you yourself feel a completely different thing, what really matters?
Quasi: "Figres from poppy.org.": There are a whole range of things to consider. Namely, state of pods examined. "Technical Ripeness" is a biological stage during which Somni , aside from undergoing quantifiable physical changes produces the most opium, and the time during which opium itself has the most psychoactive alkaloids.
Opium is produced in incredibly tiny vessels inside the pod wall, and it is these vessles that allow a pod to have morphine at all. In other words, morphine is not found in pods per se but in the pod's vessles. Technical Ripeness takes place, on average, 10 to 14 days after the individual plant's last petal has dropped. After 14 days the alkaloidal content diminishes markedly.
When pods are harvested for a straw extraction, a la Kabay Process I mentioned above, they are usually harvested before entering Technical Ripeness by applying a chemical that prematurely withers the plant and this makes mechanical harvesting that much easier (it is exceedinly difficult to mow very green plants).
Alternatively, when harvesting for the Floral Trade, plants are left to wither naturally, on the stalk. So, as I have already explained, if alkaloids are disappearing the further one moves from Technical Ripeness, and the Floral Trade harvests long AFTER Technical Ripeness, common sense (and an actual fact of course) tells us that the pods we find in commercial outlets (meaning OTHER than those we ourselves , or close relations grow) and not going to be comparable to the ones being used in a study like the one you are "quoting."
This of course is also ignoring variabilities attributed to cultivation and more importantly the environment.
Indeed, your Source merely studied 4 Technically Ripe pods that had been lanced! That is a world away from the pods people are getting to make tea. not to pound the nail so to speak, although I do feel this is an extremely worthwhile subject and one people should be aware of. When trying to ascertain data you need a much larger control group/unit than simply picking 4 of anything!
IF I picked 4 pods from a plot SWIM (in my old age I am becoming much less of a daredevil) cultivates, it is absolutely certain that their average content will far exceed almost any commercially available samples due to an almost fanaticism in adhering to proper cultivational techniques. IF one merely used 4 pods, one should pick each one of the 4 from greatly different pools but in the end 4 is not enough to even begin considering something let alone proving it.
Just to also clarify something you said at the end of your post: "AFTER the opium had been harvested" (I am paraphrasing). When one harvests opium manually, i.e. "lances" a pod, they NEVER harvest 100% of the opium. That is impossible. Indeed they would be rendering a pod unusable for any kind of investigation anyway because of contamination and especially CROSS-contamination when the harvester(s) move from plant to plant while utilising the same harvesting implements, and so on.
Rhstu:"Rachamim must have never done pods or only have done very low quality pods...": Obviously I do not think so.
I am not trying to antagonise you but I do have to say that W/D symptoms have absolutely nothing to do with the potency of a substance.
I will get to the rest of the posts in a following post because of the very long length of this one.