Stimulants How is Levo-amphetamine so powerful and nasty?

[Epsilon Alpha]

Well it didn't catch the "llot"

 

[tricomb]

Hmm, and that word is about as layman as it gets

 

[Doug2113]

We're all wired differently, tricomb. Personally, my anxiety is pretty mild, with no other mental conditions that can cause a surge of DA/NE, so my levels of norepinephrine are very low, being inattentively ADD.

This is why ephedrine worked so great for me before I discovered ADD meds, where to most people with moderate-severe anxiety (who have high baseline levels of NE naturally due to anxiety), ephedrine would just make them anxious: too high of a NE release with not enough DA release. People with moderate-severe hypertension also have naturally high levels of NE, and dislike Adderall.

Are you saying that someone can't have both moderate anxiety and ADD?

 

[ErgicMergic]

I'm not saying that at all, Doug. I'm saying that all of us are wired differently: the ADD'ers with moderate anxiety tend to have higher levels of NE, and do better on a pure CNS stimulant like Dexedrine or Desoxyn. The ADD'ers without significant anxiety tend to have lower levels of NE, and do better on mixed amphetamine salts such as Adderall.

Levoamphetamine is very physically stimulating, as is the state of anxiety. You give an moderately anxious ADD'er Adderall, and sometimes the L-amp and anxiety synergize and too much NE is released.

I have inattentive ADD, so I should do better on Adderall rather than Dexedrine, but I prefer to replace the L-amp with Ephedrine to effectively "create" Dexphedrine. :D

EpsilonAlpha, thanks for that great info. I have tried Adderall several more times, and it has been surprisingly alright, so I guess that first time dosing added some anxiety towards the "new drug experience," which would explain the tense muscles. I still find it far more stimulating than Ephedrine/Dexedrine, but I will definitely keep the hippocampal gene expression modulation of L-amp in mind, considering memory deficit is a large part of inattentive ADD.

And I agree, I'm glad Adderall is on the market as well. Like I stated earlier, we're lucky to have every ADD preparation available to us in several countries.

 

[tricomb]

I have moderate/severe anxiety and Adderall made it made me extremely anxious, they raised my benzos but it wasn't enough so I switched to another medication, and eventually after similar negative experiences with the other meds, to Desoxyn.

Why am I always the one with paradoxical effects? Haha, low dose d-methamphetamine chills me out similar to a benzo.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Maybe the serotonin effects of low dose d-methamphetamine help with the anxiety, tricomb?

 

[Doug2113]

Well I'm undiagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I have the inattentive ADD...I'm always tired as fuck, have trouble paying attention...but I'll have infrequent anxiety attacks...I think it's due to my chronic pain though...I tend to have the anxiety attacks when I'm in a lot of pain...you are right though, now that I think about it...I'm quite alert when I'm having the anxiety...

 

[ErgicMergic]

The fatigue and cognitive clouding could be from your high dose Gabapentin, though, Doug. I wouldn't recommend getting diagnosed with ADD and jumping straight in to amphetamines especially if you still use crystal meth recreationally.

Anxiety can cause an increase in NE and can help focus, but too much anxiety causes a decrease in focus, along with too much depression. A lot of people with severe depression or anxiety don't actually have ADD, but symptoms that mimic ADD. That's not to say the depressed or anxious people can't have ADD, though.

 

[Doug2113]

Damn, you know a lot about my drug usage lol...

I'm not on gabapentin anymore and no, I don't use meth anymore...I am on lyrica however...and I've been dealing with the fatigue since before I was on any meds...

I've also had symptoms of ADD since I was little...my first grade teacher thought I should have been on ritalin, but my parents didn't want me on drugs at that age, so they never investigated the issue...the depression didn't start until I was a little bit older...and the chronic pain has just made my attention span that much worse...

I did well in school, but I'm pretty sure I could have done a lot better...

edit: I am on phentermine for weight-loss though, and since being put on it, I've excelled so much in academics it's insane...I actually made a 97 on both my art and chemistry finals because of it lol...

 

[tricomb]

Yeah, he keeps a medical file on each and every one of us.

@doug, why not ask your doctor for a stimulant to combat the fatigue? Just because you mentioned you were self medicating with crystal, one of my PM doctors actually said if I wanted to he'd call my psychiatrist and give him the green light to raise my Desoxyn dose if needed. But he doesn't know that the Desoxyn works perfectly for fatigue even at 5-10mg (like 1/4th of my daily prescribed dose) and lasts all day, but I take Desoxyn a couple times a month, sometimes a couple times a week.

I would highly recommend you ask your doctor about modafinil (Provigil) though, it's not an amphetamine and is very effective.

 

[ErgicMergic]

I have a good memory in things I'm interested in, like drugs.

Lyrica should help you more, as it causes less side effects for the same amount of pain relief if I recall correctly. Tramadol is also fantastic for ADD if the dosage is low enough, as it is a great stimulant as long as too much serotonin doesn't get released with a high dosage. Also, it is an acetylcholine agonist, which helps with focus.

Phentermine, modafinil, adrafinil, etc. are actually not bad at all for inattentive ADD'ers, since they lean towards more NE release than pure CNS stims like Dex/d-meth. I'm glad it works for you dude. And fuck, 97 on chemistry, way to go! :D

My parents were also very anti-meds and anti-pdocs, as were my teachers, but I didn't think there was anything different with the way my brain was wired until I hit college. It's amazing how intelligent a lot of ADD'ers are, I scored extremely highly on classes I was interested in during HS, and was frequently either disciplined for misbehavior or commended on amazing insights in class. When an ADD person is interested in something and is not on medication, they will hyperfocus on it since they can't control where their attention is going.

ADD is an executive functioning disorder, which leads to a lack of control on where to direct your focus and attention. It's not an "attention deficit," per se, more like a "deficit in the direction of attention."

 

[tricomb]

Oh yeah, also, ephedrine

 

[Dread calm]

I know this is a bit old now but all this reading about dextro/levo amphetamine has got me wondering something. What is the ratio of illicit amphetamines? For instance UK base speed which I've used in excess for years now, would it have a 50/50 dl ratio? I've never really given it much thought until now.

 

[sekio]

Depending on synthesis, amphetamine is in most cases racemic (from p-2-p) and methamphetamine is mostly D-meth (from ephedrine). I imagine some amph may be D too if it is reduced from PPA.

 

[Dread calm]

That would make sense, a 3 days up on meth is a breeze compared to 3 days up on base. Base makes me sweat like Fuck, pounds the shit Outta my heart, loads of muscle tension. Meth is much smoother. I've got no experience of d-amp because dexedrine has always been impossible to get here, so i cant comment on that. Be nice if base was just the d-isomer tho, maybe my cock wouldnt shrivel up quite so much.

 

[pharma-sutra]

L-amp in the Adderall mixture is also beneficial for me too, whether I want to study or tweaked out. Not saying dexedrine isn't good, but that stuff is just way too calm and nice feeling that sometimes I don't want to study at all and if wanna do it for recreational uses, I also also find pure d-amp makes me less amped to do sh*t

 

[pharma-sutra]

I have a good memory in things I'm interested in, like drugs.

Lyrica should help you more, as it causes less side effects for the same amount of pain relief if I recall correctly. Tramadol is also fantastic for ADD if the dosage is low enough, as it is a great stimulant as long as too much serotonin doesn't get released with a high dosage. Also, it is an acetylcholine agonist, which helps with focus.

Phentermine, modafinil, adrafinil, etc. are actually not bad at all for inattentive ADD'ers, since they lean towards more NE release than pure CNS stims like Dex/d-meth. I'm glad it works for you dude. And fuck, 97 on chemistry, way to go! :D

My parents were also very anti-meds and anti-pdocs, as were my teachers, but I didn't think there was anything different with the way my brain was wired until I hit college. It's amazing how intelligent a lot of ADD'ers are, I scored extremely highly on classes I was interested in during HS, and was frequently either disciplined for misbehavior or commended on amazing insights in class. When an ADD person is interested in something and is not on medication, they will hyperfocus on it since they can't control where their attention is going.

ADD is an executive functioning disorder, which leads to a lack of control on where to direct your focus and attention. It's not an "attention deficit," per se, more like a "deficit in the direction of attention."

nicely put, and very true too. I've been recently diagnosed with adult ADHD, and my parents were also very against meds when I was a kid. They believed it to be a discipline problem. I never knew tramadol can be useful for ADD, I thouht it was just a pain killer. You'd think my doc would prescribe that if I asked ?? lol

 

[Dread calm]

Tramadol is also an amazing mood enhancer, for me anyway. Its like a fast acting antidepressant.

 

[tricomb]

It has antidepressant qualities.

 

[Dread calm]

Yes but unlike conventional ssri's you dont have to wait several weeks for the mood lifting effects to kick in, with tramadol its lifted your spirits within an hour.