Harm Reduction How dangerous is mixing Kratom and alcohol + users experiences w/ the combo?

[Mycophile]

I've only taken Kratom about 10-12 times, but 2 of them I mixed in some alcohol, and both were pleasant...one of the two where I drank some good beers at a brewery while on Kratom was downright EUPHORIC and THE SINGLE best experience I've ever had on Kratom.

But I am thinking that this combination could be...and probably IS...very dangerous because Kratom is also a mild CNS depressant.

I know that it isn't anywhere near the depressant that Oxycodone is but it's still an opioid.

When I have occassionally taken Oxy or Hydro I am VERY STRICT about NEVER having even ONE SINGLE drink on it because I know of the dangers....but I am not sure how dangerous it is to drink on Kratom.

Of course...I should tell everyone that I take Klonopin....so we are talking about a Kratom, Alcohol and Klonopin mix here.....which will surely have EVERYONE telling me that this is downright lethal I am guessing.

Let me just say first off, that I would NEVER recommend anyone to drink while on Klonopin...but for ME PERSONALLY....I have been taking Klonopin for 10 years and have gotten drunk probably about 1,000 times on Klonopin and that wouldn't count how many countless more times I've had just a couple drinks on Klonopin.....and NEVER ONCE had a bad experience or felt in any danger...

HOWEVER...I am well aware that this is probably simply because I have a MASSIVE tolerance to both Klonopin and alcohol and I take a fairly low dose of Klonopin.

Therefore, drinking on Klonopin doesn't scare me...though it probably SHOULD...and no one else should do it.

I have also found the Kratom + Klonopin mixture to not feel dangerous...and I didn't feel like I was in danger the two times I had about 5 or 6 drinks on Kratom and Klonopin (it takes me about 10 drinks to get drunk so I wasn't drunk....).


However, I am quite hesitant, as well I probably should be, to actually go beyond a few beers or glasses of wine while on Kratom and my Klonopin to the point of actually BEING DRUNK while on both and I want to see if others agree that this is something I should avoid doing???

The one thing I remember from the time that I drank about 5 beers at a brewery while on Kratom and my Klonopin is that along with the fact that I had a very distinctly different euphoria from that which either Kratom or alcohol alone can create.....is that I FELT MORE DRUNK more easily......I felt drunk on about 5-6 beers when usually it takes me 10 beers to get drunk.

Most of you are probably saying "well no shit you did, you are on 3 CNS depressants".....

So....IF at the VERY LEAST I am going to be an idiot and combine ANY amount of alcohol with Kratom and Klonopin....would most of you not agree that the smarter thing would be too take the Kratom FIRST and THEN SLOWLY drink so that I can gauge the effects of the alcohol and stop when I realize I am getting too drunk??

This seems to me like the "smartest" way to do a VERY STUPID thing.......

See, this weekend I am going to a party and I KNOW I will be getting shitfaced drunk...but I was contemplating taking Kratom before drinking.

Now I am thinking that's not a good idea....because 1) I'd rather drink more than drink less while on Kratom this time 2) I think too much alcohol on Kratom would be dangerous.

Would people here agree??


It seems to me that the most dangerous way of doing something like this..which is CLEARLY already a dangerous thing to do....would be to get really drunk and THEN take Kratom because at that point you can't gauge your effects as you gradually get more inebriated as you can if you take the Kratom FIRST and THEN start SLOWLY drinking...

Would people agree with me that this is a "smarter" way to do this (already stupid) combination??

I would also like to know about any users experiences with mixing alcohol and Kratom....and even more about people's experiences mixing Alcohol, Kratom and benzos.

I am well aware that this is dangerous...but I would like others opinions and experiences on the level of danger of having JUST A FEW drinks on Kratom and Klonopin.....as well as any other experiences of drinking more while on Kratom.

It just might be that I'll end up taking the stance that I should NEVER have even a SINGLE drink on Kratom...just as I already would not do so on Oxycodone or Hydrocodone.

Thanks

 

[banana king 84]

I usually end up having a few drinks when the kratom high is diminishing, maybe 3 hrs after dosing. Kratom alone can be underwhelming, alcohol helps the buzz & will overwhelm the kratom high, makes for an even smoother comedown And while I've never used klonopin, I've had kava with kratom & booze, again the alcohol will overwhelm them all, you might sleep better but there's been no documented death from the combo I know of.

 

[pinpoint]

I don't see the danger here. I've combined large doses of kratom with up to 15mg of etizolam in a single day and am still perfectly fine. My breathing was SLIGHTLY depressed, but more 'relaxed breathing' than shallow. I'd say you're good to go.

 

[Mycophile]

Of course these are the kinds of answers I WANT to be true...but I'm still not sure it's the safest thing to drink on Kratom, then again, drinking on Klonopin is MUCH more dangerous I am sure, and I have no problem with that....but I just tend to worry that the combo could finally cause respiratory depression, and that's really what we are talking about.....not just drinking on Kratom but drinking on Klonopin AND Kratom because I ALWAYS take Klonopin every day though I could make sure to take a lower dose if I did this but Klonopin still has a long half life.

Of course, no one is ever going to be able to guarantee it won't cause CNS depression because drinking on Klonopin can already do that alone...despite my tolerance and low dosage having prevented it from happening in over 10 years of usage...it's still very unwise...

I am still thinking that taking Kratom FIRST and THEN SLOWLY drinking until I get to a point where I'd want to stop is probably much safer than getting shitfaced and THEN taking Kratom because from there you cannot go back.

I guess if I was drinking on Kratom and kept feeling fine I'd just stop when I felt the need.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind hearing a few more opinions on this topic and experiences of posters and/or mods.

I already know that certain mods would be against the combo, especially considering the Klonopin being in the picture.

Then again, people drink on Oxycodone...which is REALLY dangerous....but I am hoping that those who already posted wouldn't be the sorts to say that they consider that kind of thing ok, because if they are then I don't think I could take their opinions on this seriously...

 

[Mycophile]

I think no one wants to tell me that this is too dangerous to do lol...

I'm only looking for educated answers...but it just seems that no one really considers Kratom to be a serious enough CNS depressant to cause problems even with alcohol and Klonopin thrown in the mix...

I already know some mods' opinions on this, so maybe I shouldn't even be asking...

I just wanted to make sure that none of the people who think this is a "safe" thing to do would say it's safe to drink on Oxycodone...because again...I'd disregard your opinions if you think that.

Only if you AGREE that mixing alcohol and Oxy/Hydro is too dangerous would I take ANYONE's opinions on this combo AT ALL seriously...

Perhaps people are just like "well, your gonna do what your gonna do"...but I won't do it if anyone thinks it could kill me (then again, everyone already thinks drinking on Klonopin can kill you...which it can, I just have a massive tolerance to both and I'm on a low dosage).

I feel very safe to have a few drinks on it...it's HEAVY drinking on Kratom and Klonopin that just doesn't seem safe to me...

 

[pinpoint]

Mixing oxycodone and alcohol is dangerous. Have you ever gotten a nod from kratom? Have you ever gotten a nod from oxy?

Why do you want this to be taboo?

 

[f33lg00d]

I used do this on the daily usually with dxm. Kratom never really produces strong effects for my tolerance tho. Not safe for people with small tolerances never gave me any trouble though.

Oh and I drink on oxy. Kinda a zero fuck giver over here.

 

[Beavesmx44]

Kratom makes the shitty drunkenness from alcohol much more functional. Great combo in moderation. Kratom should be how most view cannabis. Once your used to the substance it seems to go pretty well with anything and everything. Just dose low before psychs so you get a full trip.

 

[Mycophile]

Mixing oxycodone and alcohol is dangerous. Have you ever gotten a nod from kratom? Have you ever gotten a nod from oxy?

Why do you want this to be taboo?

I absolutely do NOT want it to be taboo, I was only interested in hearing just a few more opinions so I could truly feel more confident on any decisions I make.

I simply thought not enough people had responded, one way or another.

I have indeed gotten a "nod" on Kratom, but it was simply more like falling asleep, and not what I think most hard-opiate users consider to be a "true nod".

I'm not sure why you asked that question though.

If a "nod" is falling asleep as you are walking down the street, which is how one mod referred to it, and not just while sitting down on the comp while nodding which is what happened to me on Kratom, then no, I haven't had a "true nod" from Kratom.

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

I used do this on the daily usually with dxm. Kratom never really produces strong effects for my tolerance tho. Not safe for people with small tolerances never gave me any trouble though.

Oh and I drink on oxy. Kinda a zero fuck giver over here.

Mixing DXM with Kratom isn't safe for those with small Kratom tolerances or alcohol??

I have low Kratom tolerance, but extremely high alcohol and Klonopin tolerance, and I think most would agree that the latter two are the stronger CNS depressants out of the three.

 

[QUARE]

Mixing Kratom and Alcohol is not really dangerous as long as you dont take heavy dose of both but personally I hate the effect of this combo.

 

[GreensAreMean]

Hahaha my cat is trying this comb for his first time tonight (although he prefers alprazolam heavily) and since he is extremely comfortable with benzos, along with his moderate-heavy use of the other two my cat is planning on taking it easy with the booze, but is very excited to try! love that i found this exact post cuz I know my cat does get into some pretty STUPID shit and tries to safEST while doing it. I appreciate it man.

sorry if the "my cat" shit is pointless.. im new here

 

[Mycophile]

This is really funny looking back on this thread now that I've been using Kratom for 2 years since I made this and have gotten drunk on it so many times lol.

I like the combo although it's not one of my favorite drugs to combine with Kratom.

In fact, I really don't think there's any drug I know of that is actually truly dangerous to mix with plain leaf Kratom, but this was back when I thought maybe I'd have some horrible drug interaction by mixing Kratom with the wrong thing lol.

 

[Zerwas]

Mixing Kratom and Alcohol is not really dangerous as long as you dont take heavy dose of both but personally I hate the effect of this combo.

I tend to agree. Didn't really had problems with having about 2 drinks while being on Kratom but getting really drunk is not an option because the combo does not feel pleasant as soon as the alcohol starts to overpower the Kratom.

Generally I'd stay with 1-2 beers. Oh, and one thing I noticed is that it makes me piss a lot!

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Hahaha my cat is trying this comb for his first time tonight (although he prefers alprazolam heavily) and since he is extremely comfortable with benzos, along with his moderate-heavy use of the other two my cat is planning on taking it easy with the booze, but is very excited to try! love that i found this exact post cuz I know my cat does get into some pretty STUPID shit and tries to safEST while doing it. I appreciate it man.

sorry if the "my cat" shit is pointless.. im new here

We don't do pets or SWIM here, it makes posts hard to read and offers absolutely no protection.

Anyway on topic, as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) kratom does not depress breathing, so it shouldn't present a risk when combined with downers (including alcohol) like a traditional opiate would. I mix kratom with benzos often without issue. I'm doing it right now.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Kratom is an opioid. There's nothing intrinsically different about a kratom/alcohol combination than about a hydro/oxy/alcohol combination except in terms of dosage. So if you think that mixing hydrocodone and alcohol is too dangerous --at any dosage-- than you should refrain from mixing kratom with alcohol.

Now, some small things going for it: it's a mild drug, and requires using a relatively large amount of a relatively nauseating/stomach-upsetting powder. The chances of vomitting from "taking things too far" are likely quite higher than with pharmaceutical opiates. This -might- reduce the likelihood of an OD being fatal.

But on the flip side: mitragynine alkaloids strongly resemble corynanthine/yohimbine/rauwolscine in structure, and at least some kratom alkaloids likely share their adrenergic/MAO-ethic effects to some extent. (These probably play a large role in differentiating the "energizing" kratom strains). There have also been numerous--though inconsistent--anecdotal reports of the kratom + alcohol combination inducing a very unpleasant, piercing headache. This may be related to the stimulating kratom alkaloids interacting with alcohol (which, despite being a sedative, increases plasma adrenaline moreso than amphetamine).

Personally speaking, I have had some highly unpleasant experiences from the combination--involving nausea and a terrible headache which I would almost compare to a migraine--despite having no other experience with migraines to compare to. Other times I've combined them to no obvious illl effect. Just watch the respiratory depression--some of those kratom strains are much more respiratorily depressing than an equivalent dose of a pharmaceutical opiate, at least in my experience--and watch for headaches/adrenergic unpleasantness. This is definitely something which I would label a "higher risk" activity--if only because of the incredible variety in potency and actual pharmacological effect between kratom strains. If you're sticking to cheap generic Bali, you've probably got less to worry about.

Either way: definitely something to approach slowly: less is more. If you accumulate experience with your own kratom product without noticing any danger signs, you can likely feel comfortable doing what you're doing--just don't push the doses to seek the high. Be content with what you get--a pleasant, though light, buzz.

 

[Mycophile]

Kratom is an opioid. There's nothing intrinsically different about a kratom/alcohol combination than about a hydro/oxy/alcohol combination except in terms of dosage. So if you think that mixing hydrocodone and alcohol is too dangerous --at any dosage-- than you should refrain from mixing kratom with alcohol.

Now, some small things going for it: it's a mild drug, and requires using a relatively large amount of a relatively nauseating/stomach-upsetting powder. The chances of vomitting from "taking things too far" are likely quite higher than with pharmaceutical opiates. This -might- reduce the likelihood of an OD being fatal.

But on the flip side: mitragynine alkaloids strongly resemble corynanthine/yohimbine/rauwolscine in structure, and at least some kratom alkaloids likely share their adrenergic/MAO-ethic effects to some extent. (These probably play a large role in differentiating the "energizing" kratom strains). There have also been numerous--though inconsistent--anecdotal reports of the kratom + alcohol combination inducing a very unpleasant, piercing headache. This may be related to the stimulating kratom alkaloids interacting with alcohol (which, despite being a sedative, increases plasma adrenaline moreso than amphetamine).

Personally speaking, I have had some highly unpleasant experiences from the combination--involving nausea and a terrible headache which I would almost compare to a migraine--despite having no other experience with migraines to compare to. Other times I've combined them to no obvious illl effect. Just watch the respiratory depression--some of those kratom strains are much more respiratorily depressing than an equivalent dose of a pharmaceutical opiate, at least in my experience--and watch for headaches/adrenergic unpleasantness. This is definitely something which I would label a "higher risk" activity--if only because of the incredible variety in potency and actual pharmacological effect between kratom strains. If you're sticking to cheap generic Bali, you've probably got less to worry about.

Either way: definitely something to approach slowly: less is more. If you accumulate experience with your own kratom product without noticing any danger signs, you can likely feel comfortable doing what you're doing--just don't push the doses to seek the high. Be content with what you get--a pleasant, though light, buzz.

I personally think you are wrong that there is nothing different about a Kratom/Alcohol combo and a Kratom/Oxy or Kratom/Hydro combo.

Just because Kratom is also an opioid doesnt' mean everything about it is the same and I personally have never heard of or experienced respiratory depression with Kratom.

The consensus amongst most Kratom users on BL seems to be that it does NOT cause respiratory depression and there have really been no cases I've heard of of anyone dying from respiratory depression from a Kratom overdose WITHOUT mixing in any other drugs but there are TONS of resp. depression cases from Oxy or Hydro alone so don't you think it's odd that by now with all the Kratom out there there are no reports of someone ONLY using too much Kratom without mixing other drugs and just not waking up in the morning???

Add in my own personal experiences which are of course anecdotal and I have no concerns with this combo.

Hell I've even mixed Kratom EXTRACT which has differences with a bottle of wine and had no problems.

Even though that's just my personal experience, again, MANY people believe that there's no proof that Kratom causes respiratory depression.

Although it's not a totally accurate comparison, I kind of see it as similar to how so many people for years said that smoking weed must also cause lung cancer like smoking cigarettes as both are smoke inhalation and tobacco causes cancer so what's the difference??

But smoke inhalation of those substances has different effects just like not all opioids are created equal.

Would ANYONE say that respiratory depression from too much Kratom is as likely as respiratory depression from too much Oxycontin???

I can honestly confidently say that right now I could go upstairs and pull out my Kratom and eat 3 ounces and not get respiratory depression but I'd feel like SHIT for a LONG time and probably throw up lol....but if I take a few too many Oxycontins I'm not waking up tomorrow and I believe that that experiment could be repeated MULTIPLE times with the same effect.

I've eaten 2 ounces of Kratom in a single day on Klonopin with no ill effects.

I don't think kratom cause respiratory depression and I believe that science will prove this in the future.

 

[murycake]

So I just had to make an account after stumbling upon this thread to let anybody out there reading this know that Kratom is NOT AN OPIOID! Y'all think you could buy this at your local head shop if it was actually an opioid? Nah, the FDA would've snatched it up by now. It is an OPIOID AGONIST. The key difference being that at low doses, Kratom binds with delta opioid receptors, while actual opioids bind to mu opioid receptors. Kratom has a STIMULATING (not CNS depressing!) effect at lower to mid level doses. At high doses, Kratom binds more to mu opioid receptors and mimics more closely narcotic effects, but even then, it is not anywhere near as CNS depressive as *actual* opioids.

 

[burn out]

So I just had to make an account after stumbling upon this thread to let anybody out there reading this know that Kratom is NOT AN OPIOID! Y'all think you could buy this at your local head shop if it was actually an opioid? Nah, the FDA would've snatched it up by now. It is an OPIOID AGONIST. The key difference being that at low doses, Kratom binds with delta opioid receptors, while actual opioids bind to mu opioid receptors. Kratom has a STIMULATING (not CNS depressing!) effect at lower to mid level doses. At high doses, Kratom binds more to mu opioid receptors and mimics more closely narcotic effects, but even then, it is not anywhere near as CNS depressive as *actual* opioids.

Right, the effects of krater are very different from traditional opiates and much less respiratory depressing.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

So I just had to make an account after stumbling upon this thread to let anybody out there reading this know that Kratom is NOT AN OPIOID! Y'all think you could buy this at your local head shop if it was actually an opioid? Nah, the FDA would've snatched it up by now. It is an OPIOID AGONIST. The key difference being that at low doses, Kratom binds with delta opioid receptors, while actual opioids bind to mu opioid receptors. Kratom has a STIMULATING (not CNS depressing!) effect at lower to mid level doses. At high doses, Kratom binds more to mu opioid receptors and mimics more closely narcotic effects, but even then, it is not anywhere near as CNS depressive as *actual* opioids.

The definition of opioid is a substance that binds to opioid receptors, so kratom is an opioid..