Hooked On Immodium A.D.

[soulsmith]

1.Almost completely relieves wds from 2 year ope dependance.

2. I write this at the risk of being ridiculed/reprimanded: 100-200mg per use

3. not only relieved wds but gives me a warm, pleasant, ope-like feeling. Pales in comparisson to the real thing and does little if anything for my chronic pain and anxiety issues (which opes were very succesful at)

4. this has been going on for a month or so, on and off (I have mostly waited till wds get too intense to handle then lope it up)

Before anyone starts cracking up about 'diareah medicine' please consider all opiates/opioids could be packaged and sold this way. Lope is an opiod that just so happens to be packaged and sold this way. I dont care what the F'n box says, I am after the opiod compound inside of it and the IMMENSE RELIEF it provides.

MY FEARS:

Am i just prolonguing a level of suffering I will have to endure if I am to go cold turkey?? Im not tapering on the lope. taking same high ammt every time

Could the Lope actually make my WDs worse by being on and off it or is it helping to ease the transition???

A MAJOR CONCERN:

a lot of people say "I couldn't imagine a life without opiates." I agree to a minor extent, but i CAN imagine a life without them, exercising, creating art, building myself back up to who I was before dependance, BUT.....

I have serious chronic pain issues. If these cannot be resolved (which they havent been in ten years) I really cant imagine a life where on some occasions like hiking, beach, exercise, a concert, just to be able to function and be comfortable with serious pain, that i use opiates.

IS IT UNREALISTIC TO THINK THAT IN THE FUTURE I CAN USE THEM AGAIN AND NOT GET HOOKED?
and im talkin about using very intelligent amounts for pain management purposes only, making strict rules about how much and when I can use them, and not doing so until I've spent months completely sober and rebuilt a "sober life" where im not dependant on opes to get thru a day.

WILL I RELAPSE?
Lets stick with the hypothetical that I am disciplined enough to enforce strict rules about when i use them, how much, and the amount of gap time in between uses.

Also, any recomendations for a good set of such rules?

 

[!_MDMA_!]

sounds like you need to get a doctor who can help you out. if you're in real pain its likely they'll prescribe something. i suggest you taper yourself off first though to help you and the doctor find the right dosage

 

[PinK~cloud]

I agree with MDMA. I think it's a bit of a waste to spend money on immodium AD when the price of a months supply of legitimate pain killers is likely the same as 1 bottle of immodium.


It's easy to argue with yourself and believe that you can use without "temptation," but most of the time that's the drugs talking. In my opinion, its extremely hard to use only on occasion, especially with a legal drug you like. best of luck friend

 

[NotQuiteAnonymous]

A doctor can write your rx for 7 days instead of 28 or 30. Less pills usually means less likely to take extra.

 

[Bojangles69]

IS IT UNREALISTIC TO THINK THAT IN THE FUTURE I CAN USE THEM AGAIN AND NOT GET HOOKED?
and im talkin about using very intelligent amounts for pain management purposes only, making strict rules about how much and when I can use them, and not doing so until I've spent months completely sober and rebuilt a "sober life" where im not dependant on opes to get thru a day.

WILL I RELAPSE?
Lets stick with the hypothetical that I am disciplined enough to enforce strict rules about when i use them, how much, and the amount of gap time in between uses.

Also, any recomendations for a good set of such rules?

Yes I definitely believe its unrealistic to think you can use w/out getting hooked in the future.
We are talking about a basic part of your personality, almost as innate as temperment. Chances are you will control is for an undetermined amount of time, but you will essentially be stuck from feeling a certain amount of good untill you start using more... which is what almost always happens.

Noone knows if you will relapse but again chances are high due to the biological dependency opiates create for people. Its hard enough learning how to deal with life sober, its a whole nother story when you have your brain persistently in a state of depletion for months and sometimes years after stopping.
I believe you definitely don't have to relapse, and not everyone does, but because its a common occurence I say its best not to give it more value/meaning then it needs. Its just a relapse, hope back on the boat and thats all it will be "just a relapse". Don't hop back on the boat and it will be MORE than that... like the begining of a new long term addiction cycle.

Also, even if you take 2 weeks in between uses, or one month, you're still going to be thinking/obsessing about the reality that you can feel better with one very simple behavoir (using). The closer that reality is to present, the higher the chances you'll get sucked back under. 1 month off and 1 day using really doesn't mean much to me. For the few days after you dose you're likely to feel like shit coming down from the dose. And for the rest of the month all you're going to think about is wanting to use again... EVEN IF you "control" it.

THATS WHY, when you "control" it, you actually don't control anything. If you are able to use one time, then go 30 days w/out thinking about that drug everyday.. then maybe you'll stand a chance. But humans think, we never stop fucking thinking, so chances are those thoughts will break you down sooner than later.

As far as the lope, taper off the crap, seriously. You're only likely to get physical wds, prob horrific diarhea, but I don't see any PAWs in your future by stopping. PAWs is a huge fear for opiate addicts, and I don't think it will happen to you. So why not try doing a big drop? Go down to 80mg or so, then continue a slow taper?

Try handing your chronic pain with non-opiate meds. Yet if they don't work, again, the chances are you will be back on opiates. Thats why rather than fight addiction, and tell yourself its going to be the death of you, maybe learn how to accept and somewhat maintain it.
You'll never 100% control it imo, but you CAN maintain a certain use if you're able to use everyday. Its much harder to maintain that same stablity when you're taking days off and going back to the drugs. Cause your wellbeing is always bouncing up and down making you feel unstable.
Which is actually another major reason I don't advocate trying to "control" an addiction. You wind up feeling worse and worse the less and less you are able to meet your own expecations... which only further and further catapults you into the liklihood of losing control.

 

[ocean]

I think you might get some good advice over in OD..........Gonna move this over there.......

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Spot on, Mr. Bojangles! I'll think about it and see if there's anything I can add but I think he nailed it all.

If you would like more information about managing chronic pain without opioids, hit me up some time. I have a pretty good grasp of the available options and after 4 years on opioids, have been managing my pain for most of the last year without them.

 

[mrflowers00]

immodium is for mud butt

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^please don't post if that's the only type of shit you're going to add.

Loperamide is also an opioid that can produce central effects at sufficient doses.

 

[axe battler]

I suggest a taper.

You can go as slowly as you like cause it's not as if a pharmacist is gonna refuse sale like they do for nurofen plus and the like: the'll just think you have IBS or something.

But if you suffer from chronic pain then the only remedy is painkillers or to just deal with it.

I think you can go back to occasional recreational usage after going through withdrawals too; it just takes a lot of will power.

Go to a doctor about your pain issues and maybe he can prescribe you something that is effective and not opiate based.

I might give loperamide a go if it truly does give a buzz. Do you think it might potentiate other opiates?

 

[JamtasticX]

the problem with lope comes from not being able to pass the BBB unless at high doses. Although it can easily bind to receptors in the gut leading to the decrease of direahea associated with w/d's.

There's a massive thread somewhere about using lope, pretty sure it's in OD

 

[painquestions]

long post ahead:

While I can't relate to the Immodium, I can definitely relate to fighting the opiate battle while having chronic pain to treat. Being addicted to opiates is tough enough as it is, but actually needing them on top of that and having a legitimate reason for it makes the fight 10 times harder.

I was prescribed oxy for 3.5 for pain management. It only took a little under a year for me to cross that line; that line of being dependent on them to treat pain, versus being mentally and physically addicted to them. About 3.5 years in I was fed up and went on Suboxone. I've been clean from Suboxone since May 2010 and since then have been treating/dealing with my pain without Opiates.

From my experience, I can not go back. No matter how bad the pain gets. I crossed that line I mentioned above; that dependency versus addiction line. I know that if I went back to opiates for pain management, I wouldn't be able to use them responsibly. I've actually tried. I went to my G.P. and said "I don't want to be on painkillers every day, but I would like a small prescription in case things get bad and I can't deal with it". He gave me a 60 pill vicodin script, take-as-needed, that I instantly blew through.

For me it breaks down to a quality of life and happiness issue. Personally I am happier and have a greater quality of life, dealing with my pain every day, without opiates... versus being on opiates 24/7 and living relatively pain free. I say relatively pain free because during pain management with opiates I was never really pain free. Rebound pain, tolerance skyrocketing, etc...

I don't know how bad your pain is and I'm not trivializing yours or anyone else's situation, but if the pain is literally anything less than 100% debilitating, you might want to weigh some personal pros and cons; your quality-of-life with versus without opiates.

What kind of pain do you deal with? My experience is in back pain. I have degenerative disc disease (2 of the 3 degenerating discs are herniated) along with spinal stenosis. If you have any questions about lower back pain and treatment without opiates I'd be happy to answer.

Sorry for the long post but I can definitely relate to what you're going through and wanted to share my experience

 

[RedBaron]

The loperamide will help curb your w/d's, and you can definitely taper down in a slow, easy fashion, as it is in small pill increments. You will be spending money to taper down on a lot of immodium pills (going from 100-200mg to 0mg may take some time), so I suggest buying a big bottle of generic loperamide hcl from a grocery store or pharmacy.
I've been doing a lot of reading on loperamide recently, and people find it great for coming off of opiates and avoiding the w/d's. Some describe feeling almost no withdrawal effects at all during the loperamide taper.
Don't think of it as being hooked on immodium, replacing your original drug. Think of it as the taper, and it will be.
As for relapsing... it is a definite possibility, that is up to you and your will as an individual, but loperamide has little ability to seriously abuse and feel good from. So if you stick to loperamide to curb the w/d's, then you should be able to successfully avoid the temptation, which will hopefully avoid a relapse.
You have a long road ahead of you, but I have heard only good reports from using immodium(loperamide) to make it through the rough.

 

[RedBaron]

I just read the part saying you have serious chronic pain issues. I'm sorry man, but you may just have to deal with pain killers and tolerance for a while. The loperamide will help you taper down from addiction, but if you need support for chronic pain, then you don't really have much choice than to continue with pain killers.

 

[soulsmith]

I just joined this and really, really feel alone right now dealing with coming off of opiates. In fact, I am alone, because the opiates drove away all of my friends and my fiancee and ruined me.

so thank you so much everyone for the advice and help, it really meant a lot to me. Thank you "painquestions" in particular, and no one needs to apoligize for a long post the more i know about this the better my life can be.

what are some good ways to manage chronic pain without opes? anyone?

p.s. no lope today and feel greeeaaaat! Hit the gym.... for anyone experiencing PAWS, the gym is the shiznit!!! I had been to the gym a lot prior to opes and pain and everything but it was always a chore, rewarding at the end. Today it was like getting high!! Seriously, those endorphins kicked right in, my PAWS and and the acute withthdrawls (im at a crossroads of both) basically vanished! And i still feel great hours later!

And it lowered my pain level (a little bit) which is often exasperated with activity.

 

[BaybeX]

I suggest a taper.

You can go as slowly as you like cause it's not as if a pharmacist is gonna refuse sale like they do for nurofen plus and the like: the'll just think you have IBS or something.

But if you suffer from chronic pain then the only remedy is painkillers or to just deal with it.

I think you can go back to occasional recreational usage after going through withdrawals too; it just takes a lot of will power.

Go to a doctor about your pain issues and maybe he can prescribe you something that is effective and not opiate based.

I might give loperamide a go if it truly does give a buzz. Do you think it might potentiate other opiates?

This is absolutely not true.

Ways to deal with pain OTHER THAN OPIATES:
NSAIDS
OTC/Non-Opioid Pain Relievers
TENS Unit
Physical Therapy
Accupuncture & Other forms of Holistic Medicine
Exercise
Massage Therapy
NSAID/Pain Relieving Creams
..and many more

Although these may not kill pain as well as opiates.. none are as addictive or potentially devastating as opiates.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^thank you for adding that. It drives me nuts when people act like opioids are the only way to treat pain... for some conditions such as neuropathic pain (as almost all chronic pain is to some extent), opioids aren't even the most effective options.

To supplement your excellent list a bit and specify non-opioid pharmaceutical options...

-Anticonvulsants (primarily lyrica/neurontin)
-Tricylic Antidepressants
-SNRI's
-local anesthetics such as lidocaine
-muscle relaxants/benzodiazepines
-biofeedback/neurofeedback
-meditation/relaxation training

 

[CitioKid]

soulsmith-

I did exactly the same thing you describe - multiple times. I cease taking whatever opiate I am addicted to and jump on the Immodium train. Problem is, loperamide is an opiate and it will end up causing a withdrawal syndrome as a result. I have only directly experienced the loperamide withdrawal for a few days, after approximately a month and a half of use at levels exactly as you describe. It's just like any other opiate withdrawal - though the depression and anxiety aspects do not seem as intense.

The best thing to do is to taper off the loperamide. It almost becomes inevitable as the constipation becomes retched, and the unfocused vision (which I am guessing you have experienced) make it incredibly hard to stay on lope for long periods.

Lope is long acting, so it can easily be taken every other day without any withdrawals noted. Every three days is fairly easy physically too, although mentally it can become difficult as you constantly fear that you will go into withdrawal. Somewhere on the third day is when withdrawal from lope usually becomes noticeable.

So I suggest you immediately begin by taking 60 lope pills every other day. Doing so will not cause any noticeable withdrawal effects, at least in my experience. From there, take four pills less every time you use it. Making a very detailed plan is important, as you will have sudden urges to take 90+ pills and you'll need a mode of attack.

Within a month, you'll be clean. I did a 40 day lope taper, tapering from doses of 140-200mg down to 0, and I didn't notice much in the way of physical withdrawals. The mental part is difficult, which is why the plan is so necessary so you don't slip up.

Taking tramadol for 12 days can also be very helpful if you dont want to deal with the long lasting lope taper. I actually find tramadol to be LESS addictive and euphoric than loperamide, and as a result i found it easier to taper off of.

So, point is, if you stay on lope you are not facing your opiate withdrawals and therefore you still have not gone through them. But with a regimented taper or with the short term help of tramadol or kratom, you can end the opiate cycle quite painlessly. The mental aspect will be difficult, but its not impossible.

Hell, I did it. I tapered from lope 3 months ago and haven't had an opiate since.

 

[Dinkus123]

How long were you on opiates, and how much were you taking daily?

I've been taking 20 - 30mg per day for about 11 months, and have been thinking about quiting almost everyday recently. Today my shipment of Kratom arrived, which I plan to use to kill WD symptoms.

Do you think I will experience PAWS after 11 months of moderate use? And when I say moderate I really mean it....In all that time I have NEVER taken more than 30mg in a day....BUT also have not gone a single day without anything.....

Im sure you will feel minor minor withdrawals. I would say 20-30 mg is a pretty low dose to be worrying about severe withdrawals, but for the amount of time you have been doing the opes you'll get minor withdrawals. Your smart for never going over 30, wish I could do that.

 

[Dinkus123]

Also how are you guys getting 100-200 mg of lope?? I just went to shoppers drugmart and its very expensive, pretty much <snip> a 2 mg pill.