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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

HiIP Hop - The most complex lyrical music

brimz

brimz

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Right so i been listening to a load of Wu tang , Kool G RAp n NAS today

I have concluded from this that no other style of music uses the English language in such a compex way .

I'm talkin about Metaphores , Multi Sylabic rhyme flows , Imagery, making Albums in to actuall Movies but with no picures shit like that.

If anyone can think of any other genre that uses the English langauge to this extent i want to hear it .

The Lost Poets obviously are a given.

Discuss ...
 
Musically I doubt any genre can use the English language ,or mind you any language that is in the same complex way.
 
Well we're talking about lyrics rather than music, yes? With hip-hop being a style of popular music with a particular focus on lyrical content, whereas most popular music with vocals traditionally relegates the lyrics to a secondary concern.

I don't think you can identify one single genre of popular music as having the 'best' or most imaginative lyrical content, but it stands to reason that hip-hop features many notable lyricists since the lyrics are the main focus.

I shouldn't imagine anybody sat and analysed Little Richard's words when he sang "Long Tall Sally", but to compare something so throwaway with something in which the words have been meticulously crafted is hardly useful or fair, nor does it say anything about the music itself. It's like saying blues is less complex than jazz - that's the point.

Maybe this would be better in one of the music forums?
 
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Hip hop is insanely deep, I don't think I will ever get bored of it. I get bored of other genres in a few weeks but I have been listening to rap every day for about 15 years and probably will be for the rest of my life. Whenever I get a bit bored I just switch to a different style and it is all fresh again. Like I listen to certain people for the deep wordplay, then certain people to get me hyped etc..
 
True

Maybe this would be better in one of the music forums?
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I wanted a eadd point of view ok i may move it to NEMD as i'm sure Max Power et al will have something to say but for a wee while i would like to keep it open here if thats ok ?

With hip-hop being a style of popular music with a particular focus on lyrical content, whereas most popular music with vocals traditionally relegates the lyrics to a secondary concern.
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Production in Hip Hop is what sells records because we all know that a catchy beat or hook will get radio play . So your comment is not really on point . As us B Boys Say ;)
Thing is Hip Hop covers such a broad spectrum of music and folk like me n Danny n PTCH n Jancrow n The Rza we listen to the lyrics n don't just buy stuff cos it's gotahot beat although the best Hip Hop will have both .
Stuff like Gangstarr , wassup ATM23 ?

N who said anything about "the bEst " i 'm not having a pissing contest here i just would like to discuss lyricism .
You should know as well as anyone that i a have a very wide taste in music Sam .
 
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brimz said:
Production in Hip Hop is what sells records because we all know that a catchy beat or hook will get radio play
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But without the lyrics there would be no hip-hop. The music is there primarily to provide a backdrop for the lyrics. You can't say that about many other styles of popular music. Therefore you can't compare it to the majority of popular music, in which the lyrics are often banalities tacked on as an afterthought. That's all I'm saying.
 
SamhainGrim said:
But without the lyrics there would be no hip-hop. The music is there primarily to provide a backdrop for the lyrics. You can't say that about many other styles of popular music. Therefore you can't compare it to the majority of popular music, in which the lyrics are often banalities tacked on as an afterthought. That's all I'm saying.
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Yeah you have a point but their is afine line beetween electro n Hip Hop even Kraftwerk are more Hip Hop than any other genre check Afrika Bambaataa and the Soul Sonic Force.
 
I love instrumental hip hop, I listen to listen to beat cd's all the time when I cant be bothered with lyrics. There is a great producer in particular called Ghost, he does mainly stand alone instrumentals, he also gets features from Jehst and that.

Then there is trip hop, some of that is just straight beats it is great stuff.

Edit: Memorecks as well he is great.
 
brimz said:
Yeah you have a point but their is afine line beetween electro n Hip Hop
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Just as there's a fine line between a lot of genres - sometimes distinguishing between the two is purely arbitrary, or based on non-musical concerns (fashion, the era the music was produced / recorded in, what the papers say, etc). Kraftwerk were electronic pioneers, so it stands to reason that they influenced the electronic music that followed, but they had nothing to do with hip-hop beyond that influence. It's like calling the likes of New Order 'acid house' - they influenced the sound massively but they weren't anything to do with its inception.
 
Blimey, this has sparked a lot of thoughts on one of the only subjects I really can go on and on and on about so plenty of disagreement on various things.

I wouldn't call Kraftwerk hip hop, I'd call them electronic music, then krautrock if pressed for an alternative (although their hits, unlike earlier, more experimental work, are all firmly 'electronic music' and you could call a lot of it synthpop). Not sure where they actually sit these days as they play much more dance-influenced versions of their tunes out live (seen them twice in the last 5 years, excellent). But they reached a bigger audience through getting sampled like mad by hip hop artists and their music was absorbed into that scene and many others, so they are absolutely a cornerstone of early hip hop.

I think that NO's influence on acid house is overstated really, they certainly got into the spirit of it but every man, woman and beast and the beast's dog suddenly started using drum machines and synths in the late 70s and I feel like acid house would have happened more or less as it did without them. Someone we'd haven't heard of would have stepped into the breach if they hadn't existed, twas a magical convergence of people, drugs, music and technology and the new sound had to break through into our reality somehow (ha ha) (or is it.... or......... IS....... IT?).

And thinking about the original point, honestly I think there is simply nothing else like the role of the MC in any art form. I don't think there's anything like it in the whole of the English language except perhaps the English language itself. A film is a great analogy because a lot of the better MCs produce incredibly dense and immersive lyrics which on first listening convey a mood and parts of a story and reveal more and more detail, nuance of plot and meaning with repetition, when you're not just trying to keep up.... if you're listening to the right MCs and watching the right films. But yeah, I can't think of any other use of the English language which gives the language itself such a strenuous workout. Brrrrrap!
 
My pleasure :)
He's not active anymore, unfortunately, but check out Taskforce and all artists that are affiliated (Jehst, Farma G, Mystro, Chester P et al.).
Good shtuff ;)
 
I don't believe that any other form of human activity is flexing the language, extending it or even just churning out sequences of words at the same rate as hip hop with the exception of the entire internet.
 
Hip hop is inventive enough and there are plenty of gifted people, but it' not doing anything that hasn't been done in poetry or prose decades or even centuries before. It's delivered in a form that's more immediate and accessible but that's about it.

I rate lots of lyricists; Lou Reed for example, but I don't think he was necessarily pushing the envelope language-wise - he was merely taking bits of what he found in literature and applying it to the rock music form.

Anyway, all the artists wear clothes which are far too big, thus dircrediting it as a proper art form. Everybody knows this.
 
Have a listen to some of John Lydon's work, much of it stands on its own without any music:-

PIL-RELIGION 1 and 2

I'm a real lyrics kind of person, there are lots of people who give a great deal of though and meaning to their lyrics, yes Hip Hop delivers them thick and fast but its not all about quantity.
 
Mark E Smith

JMC writing 200 songs about heroin without ever saying heroin

Roky Erickson

Loads of 60's psychedelia

GEORGE CLINTON

And who says it's a competition anyway.

<3
 
I've been listening to hip hop since the late 80's, and as much as I love dance music in its many forms, I get something unique and deeper from hip hop, it can be funny, sad, happy, violent, sometimes its the lyrics, sometimes they don't matter as the beat is quality, sometimes it's the delivery.

Plus if dance music's partner is MDMA, then hip hop's is most definitely weed!
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
And who says it's a competition anyway.

<3
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Not me thats 4 sho .

i'm glad that this thread has taken off to an extent

I mean theirs only so many Threads that go along the lines of my drugs the best etc before it gets boring.

I like threads about other stuff where drugs aren't the centre point don't get me wrong i luv my drugs but EADD is the best discussion forum because some people make threads about things other than drugs.
 
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