Hi, I've seen a fair number of anecdotal reports that eating a high fat meal after opiate ingestion increases pleasure (aside from the act of eating, I mean). The reason that is usually cited is that the opiate binds with the fat and crosses the blood/brain barrier better or quicker. Is there anything to this or is it just subjective reports? It seems to me that opiates hit really fast anyhow, so I don't see why they'd need the help crossing the BBB. Thanks for any insights. e.g., how soon afterwards should one eat, what's the science, etc.?
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Opioids High Fat Meal After Opiate Ingestion
- Thread starter Daygone
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teological
Bluelighter
Hey bro, look IME potentiation is to be done before opiate indigestion. Also, not anything that takes up room in the stomach, AKA FOOD. So as you can tell, I have been a major critic of this idea of eating fatty food before indigestion of opiates.
Taking the fatty food after, seems to go against what I am looking for. For me the best part of the high is the first 10 - 45 minutes. What could eating fatty food do to the high once it has already started? I was also critical of this,
then.....two days ago I had my usual dose of opiates and about one hour later had a very high fat fried take away meal. Now keep in mind this dose is sort of like maintenance and I do not really get high off it. After I ate my meal, I do not know exactly how long after, I spent the rest of the day NODDING MY FUCKING ASS OFF!!!!
Hence, I am also interested now lol....just my two cents.
Taking the fatty food after, seems to go against what I am looking for. For me the best part of the high is the first 10 - 45 minutes. What could eating fatty food do to the high once it has already started? I was also critical of this,
then.....two days ago I had my usual dose of opiates and about one hour later had a very high fat fried take away meal. Now keep in mind this dose is sort of like maintenance and I do not really get high off it. After I ate my meal, I do not know exactly how long after, I spent the rest of the day NODDING MY FUCKING ASS OFF!!!!
Hence, I am also interested now lol....just my two cents.
DaftPunkFan
Bluelighter
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I'm interested in this too. I find that eating something very high fat 30-60 mins before taking opiates greatly helps, but I'd like to know if it's actually beneficial to eat something high in fat after taking opiates.
I usually just eat a high fat snack after taking opiates just in case it helps, but I'd like to get it down to a science
I usually just eat a high fat snack after taking opiates just in case it helps, but I'd like to get it down to a science
sekio
Bluelight Crew
consuming fatty meals along with opioids will make the drug be absorbed less intesnely, but over a longer amount of time. this doesn't apply to drugs that are taken other ROAs, just orally.
this is because the drugs dissolve into the fat rather than being uptaken by the gut, and explains why taking pills on an empty stomach is usually more intense.
this is because the drugs dissolve into the fat rather than being uptaken by the gut, and explains why taking pills on an empty stomach is usually more intense.
when I used to pop oxy I would always get the urge to eat complete shit food, anything high in sugar and fats like fast food. I would get a similar effect, feeling higher and start getting nods and what not, like the pills had kicked into overdrive. Ive read quite a few articles that talk about how foods that are high in fat and sugar cause dopamine stimulation, and how consuming a large amount of dairy products can cause a opiate like high.
I also always preferred eating before i'd take pills, mostly because of stomach discomfort if I didn't right at first. After making a habit of eating a good meal first I started enjoying the high more, was much smoother and comfortable. Like others said probably has a lot to do with the way the drug is being digested, as in it is being absorbed into other substances rather than being rapidly digested by the gut. I think the fact that eating, particularly eating foods high in fat and sugar trigger the reward synapse in the brain, which to a lesser degree is similar to the effects of taking a opiate.
mostly just speculation on my part though
I also always preferred eating before i'd take pills, mostly because of stomach discomfort if I didn't right at first. After making a habit of eating a good meal first I started enjoying the high more, was much smoother and comfortable. Like others said probably has a lot to do with the way the drug is being digested, as in it is being absorbed into other substances rather than being rapidly digested by the gut. I think the fact that eating, particularly eating foods high in fat and sugar trigger the reward synapse in the brain, which to a lesser degree is similar to the effects of taking a opiate.
mostly just speculation on my part though
“Casein, one of the proteins in milk, crosses the blood-brain barrier and becomes something called casomorphins. Yes’m, that sounds a lot like morphine—because casomorphin is also an opiod. Nature designed it that way so young mammals would enjoy nursing, come back for more, and live to reproduce themselves.” “Human milk has only 2.7 grams of casein per liter. Cow’s milk has 26. And because it takes, on average, ten pounds of milk to make one pound of cheese or ice cream, you’re looking at a lot of casein and resultant casomorphin.” - See more at: http://freefromharm.org/health-nutr...iate-qualities-of-dairy/#sthash.B5P6AfOM.dpuf
I'm not going to look for it right now but its something similar with sweets and fats. Being that the two are extremely rare in nature the body has developed a reward center that views these things like they were diamonds and gold. When sugar touches your tongue you get a small drop of dopamine in your brain. Your body produces natural opiates, which is why you have opiate receptors not only in your brain but in your gut, your ear, and other parts of your body I believe as well. Taking a drug is not the only way to stimulate those receptors..
I'm not going to look for it right now but its something similar with sweets and fats. Being that the two are extremely rare in nature the body has developed a reward center that views these things like they were diamonds and gold. When sugar touches your tongue you get a small drop of dopamine in your brain. Your body produces natural opiates, which is why you have opiate receptors not only in your brain but in your gut, your ear, and other parts of your body I believe as well. Taking a drug is not the only way to stimulate those receptors..
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sekio
Bluelight Crew
Casein doesn't cross the BBB though, it's a large charged protien.
This explains why drinking milk is not a suitable cure of opioid withdrawal..
This explains why drinking milk is not a suitable cure of opioid withdrawal..
http://www.peds.ufl.edu/divisions/genetics/programs/autism_card/casein.htm
"t is believed that these peptides from gluten, as well as certain peptides from cow milk protein (casein), can somehow cross the intestinal microvillus barrier and reach the blood stream. The theory purports that these peptides can then gain access into the brain by getting past the blood brain barrier. In the brain, certain amino acid sequences of these peptides then compete with the natural peptides (e.g., hormone/neurotransmitter peptides) of the body that bind to opioid receptors. Opioid receptors are G-protein receptors that are on the cell membrane surfaces of neurons and they have far reaching signaling effects."
there are quite a few people who would disagree with you.
An alternate explanation may perhaps also be that the amount of casein you would need to cause similar amounts of opioid receptor stimulation would put you well into a world of health problems long before you started feeling high.
also, I believe the body turns casein into casomorphin which binds to opiod receptors which in combination with an actual opiate can possibly cause greater pleasure sensations.. I don't think I ever implied that you can get high from milk. If I remember correctly the studies I read were focused more so on milk concentrates like ice cream and cheese which has much higher casein concentrates than milk does. There are many factors in dairy products that cause the triggering of the reward synapse in the brain apart from casomorphin, but I believe it to be a factor.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Says the guy citing a theory, not observable facts.
Caseomorphin, gluteomorphin etc are certainly active as opioid peptides, I don't dispute that. But peptides are almost universally absorbed very, very poorly by most routes - and even when they make it into the blood, most of them are too bulky or charged to pass the blood brain barrier. This is why we don't use purified endorphin as an analgesic for people, much less Gibson style transdermal endorphins(!).
Casomorphin - WikipediaWiki said:
Casein makes up 80% of the protien in milk (8g of protien per 1 cup = 6.5 grams casein), and a large percentage of cheese by mass. (Part skim mozzarella and cheddar cheese are ~25% protien by mass) I have heard of people getting health problems from cheese over consumption, but it was the excessive calcium that was the issue. I have never ever heard from someone "ODing on cheese". And I don't feel unusually compelled to drink milk when I'm sad.
I just don't buy it that milk and derived products are active centrally as opioids. At best they are active in the intestines in a sort of pseudo loperamide way. But the protiens that are mu agonists are too charged to cross BBB at physiological pH.
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
I've noticed high-fat meals helping when I was using a lot of oxymorphone, but with other opioids? I haven't really noticed any significant difference in the experience. Oxymorphone though.... Eating properly with that felt like I'd get a 30% BA gain no matter which ROA I used (primarily IV, and nasal).
lol, the one time i was staying at my parents' house in withdrawal and decided i might as well just tell them, then my dad decided i needed a lot of milk and chocolate. he's a health nut and evidently he'd read something about those 2 substances effecting the opioid receptors. i don't know. i walked to the grocery store and stole a few bottles of wine, a 100-bottle of loperamide, a bunch of melatonin, valerian, etc. And then i stole his wallet when he passed out and got some heroin. so who knows?
sekio- says the guy quoting wiki...
I don't fully understand the science behind it and i'm not going to act like i do, but it still remains an observable fact that there are quite a few scientist, aside from those at the university whose website I quoted, who disagree with you. As well as those who will probably agree with you. It is a bit of a controversy at the moment. The theory I quoted is supported by quite a few reputable institutions if your curios on the matter look anywhere other than wikipedia and you'll come across the information.
But back on the subject, I don't know exactly as to why drinking something such as a milkshake or eating a shit load of cheese and crackers- not just high fat and sugar products but also high dairy products amplifies an opiate high after you've taken them, but I'm going to guess it has something to do with casomorphin coupled with high fat/sugar intake. I do know there are opioid receptors in the stomach as well as the ear, not just in the brain. Perhaps casomorphin doesn't cross the BBB, but there are many scholars much more established than yourself who seem to think it does. I don't think you can get the slightest bit "high" by eating say cheese for example, but I do believe that if you eat cheese while you are already high you will feel an increase in pleasure. Why this is is just speculation, but my guess is it has something to do primarily with the reward centers in the brain being triggered by fat and sugar and opioid receptors in the body being activated by casomorphin.
My main point being that taking a drug is not the only way to stimulate your receptors in your brain, so doing activities that stimulate your receptors while on drugs will have a combined effect as far as I can tell. Just because you don't feel like drinking milk when you're sad has little to do with to subject. I don't feel like shooting meth when I'm sad, but there are people who do. There are also people who like to eat when they are sad, and many believe it is possible to become addicting to doing so. As far as I can tell, there are more people who feel like eating when they are sad in the US than people who feel like using dope when they are sad.
I don't fully understand the science behind it and i'm not going to act like i do, but it still remains an observable fact that there are quite a few scientist, aside from those at the university whose website I quoted, who disagree with you. As well as those who will probably agree with you. It is a bit of a controversy at the moment. The theory I quoted is supported by quite a few reputable institutions if your curios on the matter look anywhere other than wikipedia and you'll come across the information.
But back on the subject, I don't know exactly as to why drinking something such as a milkshake or eating a shit load of cheese and crackers- not just high fat and sugar products but also high dairy products amplifies an opiate high after you've taken them, but I'm going to guess it has something to do with casomorphin coupled with high fat/sugar intake. I do know there are opioid receptors in the stomach as well as the ear, not just in the brain. Perhaps casomorphin doesn't cross the BBB, but there are many scholars much more established than yourself who seem to think it does. I don't think you can get the slightest bit "high" by eating say cheese for example, but I do believe that if you eat cheese while you are already high you will feel an increase in pleasure. Why this is is just speculation, but my guess is it has something to do primarily with the reward centers in the brain being triggered by fat and sugar and opioid receptors in the body being activated by casomorphin.
My main point being that taking a drug is not the only way to stimulate your receptors in your brain, so doing activities that stimulate your receptors while on drugs will have a combined effect as far as I can tell. Just because you don't feel like drinking milk when you're sad has little to do with to subject. I don't feel like shooting meth when I'm sad, but there are people who do. There are also people who like to eat when they are sad, and many believe it is possible to become addicting to doing so. As far as I can tell, there are more people who feel like eating when they are sad in the US than people who feel like using dope when they are sad.
Hiltoniano
Bluelighter
^ I agree with sekio; and also to the above I really think you are focusing too much on dairy and such, it's all fatty foods including fried chicken or bacon or whatever. So your hypothesis is looking a bit shoddy. And also you say you don't know the science behind it, but the thing is, I bet sekio does. Just some food for thought 
ShaunG
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2011
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- 272
I usually just eat something small and fatty ahead of time like peanut butter cups like 20 mins before. Then after about 3 hours or so I eat a fatty or high carb meal and smoke and it puts me right back into a slightly euphoric nod. Sometimes I nod hard as fuck from doing this usually with oxycodone or oxymorphone.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
this most definitely works - oxycodone is potentiated enormously when i eat a high fat meal before taking it or when i eat after taking the oxy. it has to be timed somewhat correctly, if i take the oxy after a high fat meal it can sometimes it doesn't work as well as i thought it would. the best thing to do is take the oxy while eating in my experience.
for instance when i'm eating a pizza, i'll take my oxy in the middle of eating it. that always potentiates it in my experience.
omega 3 oils are also fantastic. taking oxy with them also potentates it well.
for instance when i'm eating a pizza, i'll take my oxy in the middle of eating it. that always potentiates it in my experience.
omega 3 oils are also fantastic. taking oxy with them also potentates it well.
Slum Survivor
Bluelighter
there is something with blood sugar here too dont forget that too peeps. my blood sugar gets off from not eating... i dont even feel high on opiates. with benzos, seems some fatty foods help... idk as much about how benzos are absorbed or work on the brain. but as for opiates, what u eat can really change your high. i have no science to back this up just my general opinion.
seems like an ADD type topic no>? i get confused and just hang out here in OD myself so i feel OP's placement. plus higher traffic.
well u science and chem/pharm nuts... how does blood sugar change opiates and opioids? i sure know i feel like crap when i dont eat, or im just hungry in general. also seems the opiate will wear off much faster in some cases. im sure some foods, vitamins, or minerals could effect the speed of elimination.
this is so close to placebo arguments and all... the only hard science im seeing is what sekio said. not that someone is right or wrong. the fat can absorb the drug.
so then y does it help benzo's??
seems like an ADD type topic no>? i get confused and just hang out here in OD myself so i feel OP's placement. plus higher traffic.
well u science and chem/pharm nuts... how does blood sugar change opiates and opioids? i sure know i feel like crap when i dont eat, or im just hungry in general. also seems the opiate will wear off much faster in some cases. im sure some foods, vitamins, or minerals could effect the speed of elimination.
this is so close to placebo arguments and all... the only hard science im seeing is what sekio said. not that someone is right or wrong. the fat can absorb the drug.
so then y does it help benzo's??