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Misc Heroin withdrawal-Subs, what am I doing wrong!?

deltakappamu

deltakappamu

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Apr 19, 2013
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I could tell you my adventures, but there's no use
Hi everyone.. I am having an issue. I am a long term heroin addict and I am desperately trying to get clean. I have been to treatment many time and been detoxed using subs, and also detoxed using subs on my own as well, all without a difficulty in the past.

My dilemma is this: I have tried to kick 4 times recently and each time something goes wrong. The first time I guess I took sub too early and went into precipitated w/d's. The other times though, I feel as though I waited long enough, and after taking the subs, I still felt sick?! Is it possible that subs just don't work? It seems that it would be impossible.. but I don't know what I am doing wrong. I am going to try again tomorrow. I have subs ready and I did my last shot at 6:30 this evening. Wish me luck!

If anyone has any experience with subs seeming to not work, it would be nice to hear from them.

Thank you guys!

*Note: I have tried various ROA as well, including plugging, which worked great once before to detox. I have waited 20 hours these go rounds to take the subs and still seems not to work. In the past I had to wait 12 hours tops. I don't know if maybe I am doing dope that has longer legs or what? ARGHHHH
 
Bupe has to build up in your system. You may feel sick for a few days but after that you should be fine. Give it some time. If you still feel sick after a week or so, maybe you should up the dose.
 
Thanks for the response.

I am just perplexed because in the past I had great results. I mean, I didn't feel fantastic or anything, but the subs took away my w/d. I keep failing at this because I keep planning it and then end up sick at work. So tomorrow is sunday, so I am planning on sleeping as long as I can, then taking a sub.

I just feel like I need to get thru the transition dose.. then I might be ok.

I don't understand why my reaction to subs now is sooooo diff than any other time. It's odd
 
flyhighk said:
Bupe has to build up in your system. You may feel sick for a few days but after that you should be fine. Give it some time. If you still feel sick after a week or so, maybe you should up the dose.
Click to expand...

Definitely.

Wait 30 hours after your last dose of H, make sure you're feeling sick and shitty: dilated pupils, yawning maybe, anxiety, skin crawl, aches, etc. then:

Take 4mg Sub.
Repeat every 90 minutes until your withdrawals subside and you start to feel normal.

When I detoxed using subs I was 60 hours off dope, as sick as I've ever been in my life from dope and 60 minutes after a 4mg dose I literally felt 100% normal.

Good luck feel free to ask more questions.
 
How long are you waiting before dosing the sub and what dose are you starting with?

It's not uncommon for subuxone to take a couple days to work fully. Your tolerance might be high right now, higher than what the ceiling dose of bupe can deal with.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
How long are you waiting before dosing the sub and what dose are you starting with?

It's not uncommon for subuxone to take a couple days to work fully. Your tolerance might be high right now, higher than what the ceiling dose of bupe can deal with.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's usually the case. My addictions medicine specialist that I was fortunate enough to get my suboxone prescribed through last year told me that for MOST humans, opioid receptor complete saturation is reached at 16mg or less. It may take a couple days for that dose to take effect but I've started suboxone twice coming off a good amount of dope pretty hard and only ever needed an initial 4mg dose to get my withdrawals to stop enough. Of course after about 3-4 doses you feel way better. Everyone is different, I used to be prescribed a minimum of 24mg a day from my first doctor who was less educated (actually had me above the ceiling taking 40mg a day at first) but it wasn't really necessary.

For whatever reason though, i do read these threads in various places from time to time where suboxone isn't working for somebody.... A lot of times though it's when someone is trying to dose themselves rather than have their induction done by a sub doctor, which you literally sit in their office and they monitor you until you are good to go and then you're released, but obviously it's much cheaper in America with healthcare costs to obtain a supply of suboxone and do it yourself.

Good luck
 
Your taking it too early. You have to wait atleast 30 hours or more.
I have done this many times myself, at the rehab clinic here i Norway where they treat you with Subutex for 12 days or so.

It worked great the four first times but after that i felt every time i did it got worse and did not work as good. I dont know why.
So i went on metahadone at 100mg a day and have deen on that for 7 years now and all is good. I feel good and all :)

So i really hope it works/worked out for you

Much love

Sid in Norway
 
Hey all.

Well its 4:15 pm. Last dose of heroin was 6 or so yesterday (pm.)

I have spent the majority of the day in moderate withdrawal.

I scored myself 14 on the COWS scale and I was feeling pretty bad, so I took a tiny tiny piece of a sub strip (prob about 1 mg.)

That was about 20 mins ago. I feel ok?

I think I am starting to feel slightly better.. but I don't want to speak too soon. Usually pw starts by now..so we will see. I will post after a while about where I am
 
You just got to face the fact that no amount of Suboxone is going to cover up the withdrawal from a decent heroin habit, You are going to feel sick, for a few days, probably 3 or 4. The first day I take Subs I will barely even notice a difference after taking it, but it doesn't get worse so I know its doing something. Give it 24 hours from the taking the first one and you will feel vast improvement, but still probably feel like crap. Each 24 hours and you'll keep noticing vast improvement until you hit like day 4 or 5 on the Sub and then you will start to feel pretty good. I know it sucks that it just doesn't pack enough punch to make you well for the first days until your tolerance drops, if your habit is real heavy and you can't get through the induction then its probably worth give Methadone a shot. Also if possible some comfort meds are probably advised for the first few days on Subs. A benzo to knock you out and just sleep through most of the first couple days, at least the first night because otherwise I know I get no sleep. Lots of OTC painkillers, too. I find the Subs do almost nothing for the body aches I get, so some NA Naproxen helps a lot. With a benzo to stop anxiety/RLS and NSAID for the pain you will sleep alright and that all you really need, plus a couple free days to get through the worst of it.

BTW it has nothing to do with it building up in your system, or else theoretically eating like 24 mg in 1 day would solve the problem(hint: it does not). If you take 8 mg and you are still in withdrawal then your tolerance is above the ceiling effect. Just try to remember that it is doing something, even if you are still sick, you'd be feeling worse off without it.

Also, waiting 30 hours is extreme overkill. 24 hours is playing it safe,

cwake18 said:
For whatever reason though, i do read these threads in various places from time to time where suboxone isn't working for somebody.... A lot of times though it's when someone is trying to dose themselves rather than have their induction done by a sub doctor, which you literally sit in their office and they monitor you until you are good to go and then you're released, but obviously it's much cheaper in America with healthcare costs to obtain a supply of suboxone and do it yourself.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I don't get your point here. So basically you are saying that having a doctor stare at you while you take the Suboxone is going to have an impact on how well it works?

Also 16 mg might be the top dose for the antagonist effects (blocking effects) for Buprenorphine, but its agonist effects (what will make you feel better when in full agonist w/d) are much lower than that.
 
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I'm an idiot. After I posted about taking that tiny bit and being ok, I took a piece and injected it IM and went into withdrawal. I'm so fucking stupid.

So I went and got dope and am going to have to start over on this detox plan YET AGAIN.

New plan: do my last shot of dope at 6am tomm morning so I can make it to work. Then I'll have to go thru the day tomm and night without anything, and then start the sub all over again the following morning (Tuesday) after it has been 24 hours. I'm going to just have to suck it up and face the fact that I'm not gonna feel great for a few days but I know the payoff will be well worth it. I was clean for 2 years, so I know I can do it again.

Wish me luck.
 
RTrain: I didn't mean it's going to help, just simply that's how RB teaches doctors to do suboxone/subutex induction. Both times I've started, I wasn't allowed to leave the office until I'd taken my first dose, symptoms improved, and felt good enough to leave. The second time was good I stayed around though because I went into PD and the doc was able to write a script for phenergan on the spot knowing it would pass but that It would help tremendously for the next two days with the transition. My main point is that suboxone doctors are specifically trained in exactly how and when to dose you, start you, re-dose you, and everything about the induction. When you just grab suboxone and try it yourself, the preparation or setting just isn't as foolproof I guess. Like the doctor will specifically be very clear about making you be honest about your last use so they know when/if they can dose you. If you're sick and at 16 hours you may say meh good enough them bam PD. 30 hours is not overkill. The suboxone induction guidelines specifically state that induction should be started within 12-24 hours after the last use of a short-acting opioid, and closer to 48 after methadone. 30 hours is how long my local detox hospital's protocol waits before dosing 4mg subutex, JUST to make sure that way if the person did a fat shot, walks in, it wears off 4-5 hours later, they know that for a full 24 hours the person hasn't been high.

Look, with bupe, YMMV, I'll leave it at that.

To OP, good luck with this next try but don't be premature. Just take ibuprofen or naproxen, some trazodone or klonopin/Xanax to help you sleep through the 24 hours then drop that sucker under your tongue.
 
And make sure you begin dosing with a very small amount and work your way up slowly. That is the best way to avoid PW's. You just go in a take a big dose right off the bat, you might be in for some hell. Also, like you've figured out.. stick to taking it sublingually.

I don't know if you've read through the Suboxone Megathread, but there is tons of info there and in the past versions.
 
Hey thanks for all the responses guys! I am ready to buckle down and wait the 24 hours. I just hope I'm able to take it before work tomm morning. I have been sifting thru that suboxone mega threads and am greatful for all the info. I just can't wait until I'm done with this shit.

I'll keep y'all posted. I know I'm sure gonna need the support.

Thanks again!
 
Subs did NOT work for me. Have been a MMT patient for 2 years now (its 0.00$ here in Europe) at 120mg and live my life, normally.
I have my life BACK. I dont have to worry about where I am going to lie or steal to get my next EUR's to buy more 3-methylfentanyl (only opiate available in my country, 1 gram = 35 doses). so 1 dose/pack/bag = no prices
and a usual drug addict goes through 10-15 of these. Our MEDIUM pay btw, is 630EUR/month. Yes, you read right. 630eur/month. That is 630 x 12 for a year. 1 eur = 1.56 dollars.

Some peole just dont have the sub 'gene' or whatever.
All it gave me was headache, weird feelings, precip. WD of course (THE WORST!!!!!!!!!!!!!) so its SHIT.
Here You can choose if you want to be on bupe or meth. meth is 0.00EUR/USD for life but meth is about 5dollars for 7 8mg bupe tabs which you get from the doc every week and pay in the front. Yes, 5 dollars for 7 8mg bupe tabs. In Finland we can go sell ONE bupe tab for as much as 50EUR/1TAB if we go North Finland were less people and longer to travel. Police = non-existent in Finland.
Most abused drug since 2006-2014 in Finland = BUPE, BUPE and more more more BUPE! they inject the tabs by throwing them directly in the syringe, add water, shake, it dissolves instantly (we have good bupe here i guess or does all bupe do that?) and they IV.
and for some odd reason they ALL nod from bupe IV'ing. how is that even possible?????
 
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Hey guys.. So I increased my sub in tiny little increments thought the day today. I think I'm starting to feel a bit better. As soon as I get stabilized I'll start tapering like I did before. Usually if I can make it past the first few days I am ok.

I went to a local urgent care tonight and got a toradol injection which should help the aches a little and I got 15 .5mg k-pins which should help my process.

I just wanna be done with this shit so bad and go back to who I used to be.
 
The kpins worked immensely. I actually slept last night. Dude wrote for 3 per day.. So I made it to work this morning and besides being extremely emotional, I think I'm doing ok. Better for sure. I'm crying at random times which is not a good look for my job but I'm trying my hardest to fight it.

My dope dealer has contacted me x 3 since starting to get clean. Somehow I have been able to abstain from buying.

I really really want this.
 
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