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heroin really that stron or overhyped

M

morphinestreet

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Joined
Apr 26, 2013
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is heroin really strong or is it all hype
compared to other drugs , it seems it has a very bad reputation
 
It's not really "stronger" than pharmaceuticals like morphine or oxycodone, but it seems to have qualities which make it the ideal recreational opiate - a strong euphoric rush (unlike oxy or morphine), a great euphoric high (unlike fentanyl/buprenorphine/methadone), weaker histaminergic side effects than morphine and codeine meaning it lacks that almost painful itching, a potency which is neither too strong (fentanyl) nor too weak (codeine) and a duration which is neither too long (methadone) or too short (hydromorphone). It's only major weakness is that it can't be taken orally, and either can't be smoked (#4) or snorted (#3/black tar) easily, depending on the formulation.

Combined with the fact that almost all heroin out there is a street drug with variable purity and is generally used intravenously, leading to the risk of overdose (especially when you bring into play factors like poly-drug use and variable tolerance), the fact that it's cheaper/more reliably available than pharmaceuticals and therefore tends to be turned to when someone's habit grows worse, then the social factors like the major role it's played in pop culture and in drug war propaganda (on the one hand you've got Janis Joplin and Kurt Cobain, on the other you've got the stereotypical image of the "street junkie" in filthy clothing, violent and unpredictable, willing to do anything for their next dose), and you can see why it has the image it does.

In Australia especially it developed a bad reputation because it grew in popularity through the 60's - 90's, peaking with the whole highly visible and much covered Cabramatta scene in the late 90's, along with the publicized overdose rates which allegedly matches road tolls in some states, huge public awareness campaigns to try and turn people off it, all of which combined to create several generations (now into adulthood) who grew up with the image of heroin as a dirty & deadly drug and the heroin user as the lowest of the low. Ironically, this image persists even with people who'll happily toke away their wages on a sweet puff every weekend, let alone the general public at large.
 
Crankinit said:
It's not really "stronger" than pharmaceuticals like morphine or oxycodone, but it seems to have qualities which make it the ideal recreational opiate - a strong euphoric rush (unlike oxy or morphine), a great euphoric high (unlike fentanyl/buprenorphine/methadone), weaker histaminergic side effects than morphine and codeine meaning it lacks that almost painful itching, a potency which is neither too strong (fentanyl) nor too weak (codeine) and a duration which is neither too long (methadone) or too short (hydromorphone). It's only major weakness is that it can't be taken orally, and either can't be smoked (#4) or snorted (#3/black tar) easily, depending on the formulation.
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^ Agree

I've tried heroin a few times, out of curiosity. It's good, it's a drug that is for shooting. My first time, very small dose (10mg I was told), very nice instant euphoric rush. Second time I tried a larger dose, 50mg. I'd been up for three days on speed so when I shot it I passed out within seconds.

It's funny. I was sitting on my bathroom sink at the time (don't ask why) but I shot, fell off the sink landing on my ass but I somehow managed to in that brief few seconds position my back against the wall. The only problem... I left the bathroom exhaust fan on and when I woke 4 or 5 hours later I was nearing hypothermia.

In repeated small hits, it could be fun. My personal opinion on heroin use is simple. Why are you using it? To escape? Bad. Because you like the rush and wanna have some fun... a decision the user will have to make for themselves. It is incredibly addictive so that is the first thing after "why" I would highlight as facts to consider before deciding to use heroin.

If a person can control their use, "functional junkie" is sometimes used to label these people... it's possible they could use heroin and not allow it to destroy their life.

Chemistry fact: The conversion of codeine to morphine to heroin is relatively simple, but requires some basic chemistry knowledge. The substance needed for this process is tightly controlled in many places all around the world. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be, so the sensible can have their cake and eat it too. I think Sweden has heroin available for addicts/users with a prescription from their GP. The war on drugs is a farce.

"Drink water" :)
 
Like Crankinit said , bar for a few differences that most non opiate users wouldn't appreciate , it's very similar to other opiates especially morphine in fact it could be considered a pro-drug as it's metabolites morphine and 6-MAM are responsible for the majority of the effects.

Plenty of stronger drugs out there it terms of potency by weight and also effect. Certainly it's not something to be trifled with but saying that I've known first timers who've wondered what all the fuss was about.

YMMV and the ROA is a big factor in how you will be affected.
 
RedLightBlueLight said:
^ Agree

I've tried heroin a few times, out of curiosity. It's good, it's a drug that is for shooting. My first time, very small dose (10mg I was told), very nice instant euphoric rush. Second time I tried a larger dose, 50mg. I'd been up for three days on speed so when I shot it I passed out within seconds.
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Well it certainly isn't anything like this.. like, don't expect your heroin to be slung in diamorphine ampules much!

Edit; Crankinit pretty much sums it up.. perhaps too well.
I personally think it's overrated. The movie Trainspotting has a line that goes something like 'Heroin is 1000 times better than sex'. well it's pretty easy to compare even a half decent orgasm to a half decent hit imo. Maybe that persons sex drive is that non existent that her words were true for herself... Anyway, compared to other drugs i'd say there are a few that are more intense... not necessarily more of a narcotic sedative effect though, as we could easily get in a bad state with alcohol, so lets compare euphoria both body high and head highs.

Well straight away i'd say MDMA has more euphoria and more intensity both body and head during onset. I remember almost passing out from MDMA but everything was going white, so instead of blacking out i almost white'ed out. Heroin i've OD'd twice and i'd say you'd just drop/vomit before you could experience more euphoria. MDMA isn't necessarily better but close either way. subjective of course.
Psychedelics like DMT blow it out of the water. Even mushrooms i would say have a stronger effect. Mushrooms have a very restrictive boadyload though, where H there's very little inhibition in general.
In terms of confidence? Heroin made me feel like i could do anything
 
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As a heroin addict, and a previous meth addict (clean of that for years now) I will say the following:

The actual high is definitely over-rated.. I mean, don't get me wrong, a strong enough hit will get you completely fucking smashed so you can't see straight and you're fading in and out of wakefulness, having difficulties distinguishing between conversations in real life and those in your dreams/nods (oh god how I miss those days).

But, it's nothing like how fucking high you can get from other drugs, like LSD, MDMA, 2C-X, etc In fact, as far as 'vanilla' sort of drugs go, I actually prefer the rush of IV meth, to IV smack, but IV'n meth every day is just not something that sustains any reasonable description of life.



But - it's soul-destroying reputation for addiction potential is NOT over-rated.. It is difficult to even describe the ways in which this drug gets its hooks into you. And whilst certainly not everyone who tries it will become an addict, not even the majority, for those that do, the rehabilitation rate is tragically low.


All this said, I've never really messed around with other opioids, I take some OTC stuff when I'm hanging sometimes (codeine, etc) and I've tried a few things here and there.. But no real pharm experience. Oh, well actually, not quite true - I've got fairly strong experience with methadone and bupe.. By the time I started using heroin, I'd already been IV'n speed/meth for a long time and I wasted no time with lighter opiates, or smoking/snorting. So my only real experience with opiates is IV heroin.

I'm sure other opiates have very similar addiction patterns.. especially if you begin IV'n them. I know even taken orally/SL methadone/bupe are incredibly addictive and difficult to get off.
 
Sublimit said:
Well straight away i'd say MDMA has more euphoria and more intensity both body and head during onset. I remember almost passing out from MDMA but everything was going white, so instead of blacking out i almost white'ed out. Heroin i've OD'd twice and i'd say you'd just drop/vomit before you could experience more euphoria. MDMA isn't necessarily better but close either way. subjective of course.
Psychedelics like DMT blow it out of the water. Even mushrooms i would say have a stronger effect. Mushrooms have a very restrictive boadyload though, where H there's very little inhibition in general.
In terms of confidence? Heroin made me feel like i could do anything
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In my opinion MDMA is intensely more euphoric than heroin and in more interesting ways too.
 
heroin is more just about feeling fucking smug for no good reason. really nothing to feel smug about. But there you are, feeling smug. That's why it's so easy to go to work, go out, go about your day, etc. Because you feel like all these things are perfectly reasonable things for you to be doing, despite being incredibly stoned.
 
If a person can control their use, "functional junkie" is sometimes used to label these people... it's possible they could use heroin and not allow it to destroy their life.
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I think the phrase "functional junkie" is an oxymoron :p And of course there's the old crack about the recreational heroin users hanging out with the unicorns...


In my opinion MDMA is intensely more euphoric than heroin and in more interesting ways too.
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I don't really feel they're comparable. MDMA is intensely euphoric, on top of the empathogenic/entactogenic effect, but it's very much a "special occasion" drug. Anyone who tries to use MDMA every day is going to fry their brain pretty damn quick, and even weekly use seems to lead to long term psychological problems (If I had a dollar for everyone who told me back in the day that "MDMA isn't bad for your brain!" who's now on antidepressants and tranquilizers...). Even if that wasn't the case, you're completely non-functional on it, as well as very obviously intoxicated. MDMA is for turning a good night out into a "holy shit that was amazing" night out (and embarrassing post-weekend photos on facebook).

Heroin (or any of the better opiates) on the other hand is an 'enhancement' drug. If life is going shitty, heroin is your coping mechanism, your comfort blanket. It melts the bad feelings away (physical and mental) and leaves you in a floaty warmth from which you can still mostly function, assuming you aren't nodding off. You can wake up, have a shot, go to work, have a shot at lunch, get home, have a slightly bigger shot and nod out in front of the computer, then another small shot before sleep with your wake-up shot weighed out on the bedside table... at least until you wake up one day and realize you're broke, in debt, your cards are maxed out, your valuables are all at cash converters and you lost your job because you called in sick one too many times. Oh, and you haven't crapped in a week.
 
mostly-human said:
heroin is more just about feeling fucking smug for no good reason. really nothing to feel smug about. But there you are, feeling smug. That's why it's so easy to go to work, go out, go about your day, etc. Because you feel like all these things are perfectly reasonable things for you to be doing, despite being incredibly stoned.
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had a chuckle at this, it's ridiculously hedonistic and there's nothing better than being stoned out of your mind, feeling smug and going about your day thinking you're completely fine, only to find yourself nodding on your feet in the middle of supermarket isles or 7/11s at all hours of the day
 
its defenitly over hyped. HEROIN its just the stigma that comes with the name. Now methadone on the other hand...
 
I think its not comparable.

I have been addicted to h for years & OD'd a few times pretty severely. I don't know anyone who kept it recreational for long.

Its serious business! Not something to take lightly.
 
Smoking H is very mellow. But it's a expensive habit once u build a tolerance even if your not a daily user. I don't IV anymore despite how much better it is. I've made promises .

As the ketaman said H is serious business.
 
Crankinit said:
MDMA is for turning a good night out into a "holy shit that was amazing" night out (and embarrassing post-weekend photos on facebook).
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Or "making a munted video talking about how trashed you are and then accidentally snap chatting it to your mum". (True story; not me)

mostly-human said:
heroin is more just about feeling fucking smug for no good reason. really nothing to feel smug about. But there you are, feeling smug. That's why it's so easy to go to work, go out, go about your day, etc. Because you feel like all these things are perfectly reasonable things for you to be doing, despite being incredibly stoned.
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This is an amazing description.
 
Potency refers to weight.
Pure diacetylmorphine will be 4 times more potent than morphine, whereas fentanyl would be 80-100 times more potent than morphine.
 
The funny thing about heroin is that for some reason it's the only opiate which (non-opiate using) people noticed I was intoxicated on. I could attend a family gathering on oxy or work a shift on fentanyl or sit through a lecture on morphine and nobody commented, but the moment I shot up heroin it would be "hey what's up with you? You look really tired/pale/unwell etc etc." No idea why that is, although I know another BLer who used to say he always got really baggy black eyes on H, and only H.
 
^ that's interesting, would be good to get more input
i always notice pupils but the pale/tired/unwell effect is something i wanna hear more people speak on
 
Morphinestreet, I think I understand what you meant about whether H is a stronger drug than others. As "Abject" has stated potency refers to weight and when I think of stronger in reference to drugs I think about potency and LD50. Shooting pure smack is great but I've been "higher" shooting other drugs in their purest forms cocaine and Meth/Amp come to mind. Drugs must be as pure as can be made otherwise a judgement cannot be made in my opinion (For me). Oh and "higher" is purely subjective too - depends what feeling appeals to you of course. I never pushed the outer limits of H, the other drugs I definitely tried to kill myself with regards to "highness". Try it once to say you did then find something else to do would be my advice.
 
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