Heroin must be legalised, says former judge

but think about it any normal junky would wake up go get their medical heroin, go on with their normal day. and as soon as they had a chance (time/money) they'd go score some illegal heroin. it would also probably increase people poly-abusing. like going and gettin their medical dope and then shooting coke or whatever
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This has got to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard in my life. I can't even begin to start with how stupid you are based on this quote.
 
Morrison's Lament said:
Yeah, the only reason grandma isn't shooting smack is that she's afraid of the law. Legalize it and everyone will want to be a smack addict 8)

--- G.
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WHAT IT IS that's hot shit, geez how could you legalize heroin, I'm sorry - for the people that are addicted right now (please get off of it as I have), this legalization is a pipe-dream designed to fuck yourself up further, prolonging your recovery..

And as far as heroin addicts stealing and fucking over everyone they know or the uh random robberies as it were.. how long can one keep this up? They will either go to jail without collecting $200, or someone that got fucked over by them will throw their dead body, wrapped up in carpet, into a local body of water.

[edit] It's not easy being a heroin addict, and for good reason.
 
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CreativeRandom said:
This has got to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard in my life. I can't even begin to start with how stupid you are based on this quote.
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I thought it made sense. Addicts have an *gasp* addictive and compusive personality. Chances are when given that opportunity (getting heroin practically free) They WILL do whatever it takes to satisfy their insatiable desire for a high.. and in many cases will use the extra revenue to either get more H (one could figure the doses given out at a maintenance facility are on an integrated level, and wouldn't get the addict high, just allow them to function), or maybe slam some nice coke.

Just take some time off and go to real treatment. Seriously, how long after shooting heroin every day will you eventually just be a miserable wreck?
Eventually even the most saturated rig of pure H will just help you feel "less shitty".

If you have a hard time with the treatment, maybe consider thumping a mean bible, I've seen that work for a lot of people.
 
Obviously you have a small grasp on economics.

Heroin is a market good known as an "inflexible" item. What this means is that those who want heroin, will get it. It does not matter if it is $200 a pop, or $ .02 a pop. They need it. Could price discourage use? It would lower the numbers who desire the item. But they still will get it.

Another inflexible market item is Insulin. Gasoline. Water.

And someone who wants an inflexible market item will steal it. And someone who needs insulin, despite high prices, will just as likely rob you as a heroin addict.

Addicts have the same personalities as everyone else. They only become addicted to a substance.

Chances are when given that opportunity (getting heroin practically free) They WILL do whatever it takes to satisfy their insatiable desire for a high
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Not quite. Many people have morals, including addicts. Not every addict is poor. Addicts will go out on a limb just as much as you will for gasoline and diabetics will go for insulin.

and in many cases will use the extra revenue to.... slam some nice coke.
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What the fuck? What are you talking about? Coke will not do anything to help heroin addiction. Are you retarded?

If heroin was legalized, then alot less people would actually shoot or sniff heroin. The majority of opiate users would use poppy pod tea. Notice with alcohol. When that was illegal, people were going blind off of moonshine. People would have virtually no problem at all feeding their addiciton. People in poverty have no problem smoking packs of cigs a day without a thought of quitting.
 
How this for an idea.... abstinence

Now all this talk about legalising it etc. hasn't addressed the problem, and never will. Now what should happen is the government/s need to start to introduce Naltrexone implants. These are the answer to majority of the problem. I'm no saying this is the holy grail, but it's definitely a step forward. Here's what I put forward, all those people who are convicted of a criminal offence and have a opiate/alcohol dependency will have the choice of either a longer stint in goal or implants for 4 years - with regular check ups. So there goes the majority of the criminal element and stop the using in goal, because once you get these in you CANNOT get high only until such time they have run out. Now implants will last 10 to 12 months, so therefore you book them in for a compulsory top up at 9 months. If anyone out there is interested in knowing anything more send me an email. I'm living proof that it works!!!!!
 
fastandbulbous said:
Government isn't supposed to be a moral guardian for the country as a whole, the purpose of government is to organize and supply services etc to the population in such a manner as makes for a better quality of life for the majority of its citizens. On that basis, of course they should be supplying NHS, pharm grade heroin to addicts. The gains to society (in terms of a better life for its citizens) are many...
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And therein lies the difficulty. You may have noticed recently that there is a general trend occurring in health and welfare circles... and I have to say, that trend is not in the direction of subsidising people's medical problems - let alone adddictions that are commonly considered to be lifestyle choices rather than medical complaints. Allow me to elaborate.

In the UK, there is a trend that crosses financial, political and healthcare spheres. Firstly, we have a trend regarding the ethos of the NHS, where I believe we are moving towards (if not entirely into) a private healthcare system. Essentially, successive UK Governments have always been aware that the NHS cannot survive in it's present form - the economic strains being placed on it are immense (admittedly, New Labour has invested significantly over the past 8 years, but when that additional funding ceases, the glow will fade). As a result, the temptation has always been to move towards privatisation, but successive Governments have always lacked the balls to do it - purely because the NHS has an iconic status amongst the voting public. More to the point, whether it's financially doomed or not, the NHS is a rather annoying thorn in the side of pro-privatisation Governments as it perpetually reminds people of the golden era of socialist Britain.

So what's that got to do with the price of fish?

Well, the Government can't allow the NHS to fail on their watch - politically, any party who allows the NHS to slide will never regain its credibility. As a result, we've seen a movement (not just in the media) towards placing emphasis on personal responsibility and being held to accont for one's decisions. In essence, the movement exploits the lingering doubts the public have always had about socialist schemes - that is: "why should I pay for someone else's problems... I don't [smoke/drink/hit the pipe], so why should I pay for those that do?" Though I believe the majority of British people would be prepared to support the NHS when it intervenes in 'act of God' medical problems, I believe they are becoming less forgiving about costs incurred from what would be regarded as 'lifestyle choices'... and the Government know that.

The best example of this regards smoking. As cigarette smokers become more maligned and demonised in media and Governmental outlets, public opinion is beginning to sway against the medical costs incurred from what is regarded as a lifestyle choice. Give it another five years, and I believe we'll start to see a similar situaion with 'excessive drinking' - after all, we've already crossed the starting line of demonisation when it comes to 'binge drinking'.

And this is where it starts... by playing the population off against each other, exploiting people's fears about "paying for other people" and being short-changed in the process. At the very least, this exploitative tactic will keep drug laws and treatment in the dark ages (relevant to the point about legalisation and production of heroin) and at most, it could be the launching pad for a healthcare system that is 'equitably' tailored to the individual - that is, it's annual cost reflects one's lifestyle choices.

Sounds crazy? Not really. The technology and information is already there to make this a reality. All that is required is the political will to reform to a private healthcare system and the arrogance to believe in the cause. Neither are particularly in short supply, and I honstly do not believe we are more than 2 generations away from a quasi-privatised healthcare system where 'vices' are discriminated against.

Short of a libertarian revolution, there'll be no legalisation of heroin.

fastandbulbous said:
That CANNOT be any worse a working model than the one we have at the moment (prohibition); in fact it's a sight better for 99% of the population
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I agree with everything you wrote. I just doubt it'll ever happen. :(
 
Deathrow558 said:
...he said he did it to feed his habbit.
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Actually, he meant "rabbit", not "habbit". Poor thing was starving ever since the owner lost his job. But then when the guy got out of jail and went home, his rabbit was dead because nobody was feeding him. And the guy ended up eating him. How horribly ironic...

Anyway - Personally, I'm all for legalization here in America - Given the condition that we don't have to provide uninsured people with emergency health coverage. You can't go opening the gates to every drug in the world, and then dole out free health coverage to the scores of new addicts (Which there WOULD be as a result of that. Nothing but stigma and/or legality keeps a good number of people clean).

It would over-burden a health system that's already being strained by illegal aliens, etc. We can afford to give people the freedom of personal choice, or we can afford to give them a safety net. Not both.

I think that it's along the same lines as why some states force people to wear seat belts and/or wear motorcycle helmets. It simply comes down to they don't want to have to pay the medical bill for uninsured people who were pitched through their windshields in an accident or put into a vegetative state by a massive head-wound (Harry).
 
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tambourine-man said:
I think you'll find he meant 'hobbit'.
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That would make much more sense. I don't know how much it costs to feed one of those things, but it can't be cheap.
 
Re: How this for an idea.... abstinence

Jllo said:
Now all this talk about legalising it etc. hasn't addressed the problem, and never will.
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You have mistunderstood the problem.

The problem isn't that people get addicted, but that society in general has to suffer because people get addicted.

Hypostatize said:
You can't go opening the gates to every drug in the world, and then dole out free health coverage to the scores of new addicts ...
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Sure you can. Taxes can be used to cover these costs as it is done with alcohol and cigarettes.

We know cigarettes damage the body therefore we let the people who want to use them pay for its damage via taxation of the cigarettes. The same should work for drugs.
 
CreativeRandom said:
What the fuck? What are you talking about? Coke will not do anything to help heroin addiction. Are you retarded?
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So no heroin addicts like a nice spoon of coke too?

waitaminit you must be in europe.. in the states heroin and coke are like beer and beer nuts.. just making the point about having extra revenues to throw around.

Also you think Johnny mr. H addict will save up for a 401k, child college fund etc. with holes stuck all over him all the time?
 
madskilz said:
Also you think Johnny mr. H addict will save up for a 401k, child college fund etc. with holes stuck all over him all the time?
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If anything, he'll have a damn better chance of doing it if he can buy his heroin for $5/g compared to black market prices at $100/g.
 
tambourine-man said:
And this is where it starts... by playing the population off against each other, exploiting people's fears about "paying for other people" and being short-changed in the process. At the very least, this exploitative tactic will keep drug laws and treatment in the dark ages (relevant to the point about legalisation and production of heroin) and at most, it could be the launching pad for a healthcare system that is 'equitably' tailored to the individual - that is, it's annual cost reflects one's lifestyle choices.
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Interesting point. Great post all round. :)
 
CreativeRandom said:

What the fuck? What are you talking about? Coke will not do anything to help heroin addiction. Are you retarded?
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From that comment it sounds like you must do all your heroin sitting at your computer posting on Blue Light. I have never met a heroin addict who doesn't slam coke or smoke crack on at least a semi-regular basis. And most heroin addicts in withdrawl would gladly take a line of coke over nothing at all. It's not nice to make inflamatory, incorrect statements.
 
I thought it made sense. Addicts have an *gasp* addictive and compusive personality. Chances are when given that opportunity (getting heroin practically free) They WILL do whatever it takes to satisfy their insatiable desire for a high.. and in many cases will use the extra revenue to either get more H (one could figure the doses given out at a maintenance facility are on an integrated level, and wouldn't get the addict high, just allow them to function), or maybe slam some nice coke.

Just take some time off and go to real treatment. Seriously, how long after shooting heroin every day will you eventually just be a miserable wreck?
Eventually even the most saturated rig of pure H will just help you feel "less shitty".

If you have a hard time with the treatment, maybe consider thumping a mean bible, I've seen that work for a lot of people.
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I'm pretty sure heroin clinics give you enough to get high. Even if htey didnt, in a world where heroin is legal, it would be cheap enough to be at the ceiling of an addiction (tolerance levels off at a point) and be able to pay for it with a normal job. This is vital for those who cannot live a happy life even after quitting.

247 said:
what a fucking dumbass, this judge.
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well established and elaborated points added to the thread, thanks for your post
 
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From that comment it sounds like you must do all your heroin sitting at your computer posting on Blue Light. I have never met a heroin addict who doesn't slam coke or smoke crack on at least a semi-regular basis. And most heroin addicts in withdrawl would gladly take a line of coke over nothing at all. It's not nice to make inflamatory, incorrect statements.
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Regardless of where I do my heroin (if at all?....), I never use with other people. My usage is always right before bed, with any substance, so it's not a matter of socialism but more a matter of being able to relax. I'm not using to particularly have fun. Just take the edge off a long day with way too much work.

So, sorry for my ignorance. I do not talk to any heroin users on a regular basis, and I count use my fingers on my right hand to count the number I've met. But, of these, none used crack or coke on a sem-regular basis.

I think you could ask the H users on this site the same question as well. I seriusly doubt that "most" of them use crack or coke on a regular basis. Then again, that's just my hunch.

I'm sure most people would take a free line of coke over nothing. I wouldn't, but I'm sure many would. Doesn't really help with withdrawal, but it's just like addicts who shoot alcohol or water (or so I hear).

Again, sorry for my ignorance. I honestly thought H users did not use coke or crack often.
 
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