Heroin must be legalised, says former judge

heres a clue...

even if use did go up, unlike cigarettes, heroin really won't kill you from direct use. i mean sure you can OD, but your just aiming for that sweet spot. if used daily in addiction, theres no room for OD.

cigarettes, alcohol, and numerous other things has proven addiction is something you can live with. i mean hell, we give heroin addicts now methadone or bupe to quit heroin, which is really, depending on situation, trading addictions....

so use goes up, but the harm reduction is worth the risk.
 
it seems like religion is really tied up in the whole thing..since drug use/abuse is "immoral" (according to them), it should also be against the law? I hope these people wake up and see that they are letting their countrymen/fellow humanbeings die so that terrorists can make money. But hey, at least they're "tough on drugs".
 
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If heroin was legalized it would kill the black market for a few reasons #1 the majority of the users are addicts and #2 after someone uses it long enough to get addicted, they could just get it legally. To successfully sell heroin you would need to keep finding new people to sell to, thus making the amount of dealers a lot smaller and making it much more risky. Legalization of heroin would kill the illict heroin trade, as well as the pain medication trade to a large extent if they started giving that to addicts as well. Start giving people all the other drugs in a controlled setting, and you erase the drug problem. Just look at how big of a problem moonshine is, and imagine if alcohol was free. A really easy way to look at this is the methadone treatment, how many people die each year from taking their own meth? Not very many. Also, how many people keep street meth habits? Most just goto the clinics. If heroin was legaized I don't see why more people would use it as it would be so much harder to get cause it would get rid of the black market, and even if they were able to get as much as they want, its their bodies anyway, Heroin is a better drug to be addicted to than alcohol if they were both legal and in controlled settings. Also, if they made Narcan braclets that moniter the heart rate and would administer a shot of narcan if the heart level fell below a certain amount of bpm because of an OD they could save every addicts life. The only reason they don't have something like that is #1 junkies usually arean't rich #2 the government doesn't give a shit about addicts and #3 if heroin stopped killing people, the stigma of it being the most dangerous drug would change. If everyone knew the truth about opiates, methadone would be replaced with shooting galleries, and the quality of life would improve for a lot of people. Only people that have lived on both sides of the fence can really understand.
 
werd 7zark7. but this is scotland not america(was it scotland or ireland...)
 
twgburst- very good points.

I do however see a problem with the morality and consistency of legalizing possessesion without condoning commercial distribution. IMO..one's own brain/body chemistry is their own business and is beyond the limits of governmental regulation; therefore, vendors should be able to sell psychoactive chemicals freely.

If you are still conserned with reducing drug use, legalization/decriminalization is a more effective path than our current course (in the U.S. anyways).

end the drug war

-jtg
 
"If you are still conserned with reducing drug use, legalization/decriminalization is a more effective path than our current course (in the U.S. anyways)."

explain?

i know in terms of alcy prohibition, hard liquor was used during prohibition cuasing lots of problems, then people went back to wine/beer once prohibition ended... but the use didnt really change that much before/during/after prohibition did it?
 
fastandbulbous said:
Government isn't supposed to be a moral guardian for the country as a whole, the purpose of government is to organize and supply services etc to the population in such a manner as makes for a better quality of life for the majority of its citizens. On that basis, of course they should be supplying NHS, pharm grade heroin to addicts. The gains to society (in terms of a better life for its citizens) are many

Because the addicts are getting heroin that has to pass a quality control, there is much less chance of having people overdose because the strength varies

There are a LOT less crimes by addicts, such as burglary, to support their habits as they don't have to pay black market prices

Less money is channeled to organized crime and terrorism, both of which get substantial funds from involvement with drugs. This in turn will reduce their capacity to commit other (non-drug) crimes (org crime) or commit atrocities of the sort common to terrorism.

Far less money 'vanishes' from the economy due to drugs money leaving the country in return for the illegal drugs entering. This reduced balance of payments deficit produces more stability, less inflation etc (which is in the intrest of every citizen)

The users get what they want (making it illegal makes no difference to their desire to take the drug), other citizens get less acquisitive crime (by users to feed habit) and less crime associated with org crime because they have less money to do such. The same applies to terrorists and their crimes. The politicians even get a windfall because less disappears from the country's economy - all of the above are indesputably good for most citizens.

There still has to be some regulation; supply to minors should carry a prison sentance (obviously no decriminalization in prisons) or at least a removal of that persons right to have access to the drug; only fuckwit users would risk losing their supply for a few extra quid by selling to minors, but they'd deserve it. Additionally, any sales from an unlicenced seller should also carry loss/temp suspension of access to the drug. Very few would risk losing all by selling to an arsehole who'd lost their priviledges by doing something like selling to minors because the black market in it would be so much smaller.

As somebody pointed out, most users would then live fairly normal lives, and for the few that end up totally fucked out of their skull all day, every day on huge doses - at least they wouldn't be comitting crimes (they wouldn't dare risk losing their right to access if the had a fucking huge 5g a day habit).

The only losers in the above scenario are organized crime syndicates, terrorists and those sociopathic fuckwits who will not make the effort to conform to the current acceptable rules of society, regarless or not of whether they use drugs.

That CANNOT be any worse a working model than the one we have at the moment (prohibition); in fact it's a sight better for 99% of the population

Brilliant post. Those are all excellent practical reasons that prohibition has to end. There are also abstract moral reasons. Prohibition is a form of "thought crime." Yup, the term from 1984. It is intrinsically wrong to legislate somebody's own mind. There is a great chapter detailing this idea in "PIKHAL"
 
qwe said:
i know in terms of alcy prohibition, hard liquor was used during prohibition cuasing lots of problems, then people went back to wine/beer once prohibition ended... but the use didnt really change that much before/during/after prohibition did it?
According to the page linked at the bottom, use declined at the start of prohibition but increased further into the years of prohibiton. Also, the decline in use might be explained by World War I and not prohibiton as use fell in many countries during this period.

Alcohol Prohibition Was A Failure
 
CreativeRandom said:
The reason legalization is considered so terrible and wrong is that it is undisputed that usage and number of users will go up.

It must be made clear that this is not a bad thing; and moreso, it must be made clear that this is the much lesser of two evils, one of usage or one of crime, poverty, and health.

I like the way you think. That is a good point. But IMO it depends on how you look at it and what it is that you value - if you value the individual then legalisation aint no good. But if you look at society as a whole and view it as some sort of indepent, living, breathing organism then for sure, legalisation is the way to go.
 
pinkanga said:
I like the way you think. That is a good point. But IMO it depends on how you look at it and what it is that you value - if you value the individual then legalisation aint no good. But if you look at society as a whole and view it as some sort of indepent, living, breathing organism then for sure, legalisation is the way to go.

Personally I think legalization would have positive AND negative effects on both the individual AND society. Using any paticular drug is not necessarrily a bad thing. It is the right of the individual to choose what food, chemicals, plant extracts etc that they ingest. Moderate use of any drug isn't going to be very harmful, either to the individual or society. However, the down sides of chronic use of any recreational drug will usually out weight the benifits, both for the individual and society. But that is somewhat irrelevent.

What people need to realize is this: MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT ADDICTS. Being an addict is a psychological trait that a person has in their personality profile before they even know what a drug is. Think about the millions of chronic pain patients on high doses of potent opiates for long periods of time. Statistics show that the vast majority of those people are able to live drug free once their medical problems are cured and/or improved.

Legalization will have positive benifits for the individual (as well as society). Millions of innocent people being freed from incarceration is probably the largest benifit. The few hard core addicts who wish to live life dependant on their drug of choice will be more likely to be able to function in society (if this isn't the case, the government should NOT help them in any way unless it is to get clean). People with legitimate medical problems will be able to obtain formerly scheduled medications easily.


Edit: I realized I should add at least one negative thing about ending prohibition. There are some people out there I'm sure, who aren't doing drugs purely because they are illegal. Among these people, there have to be some with addictive and/or self destructive tendencies. Statistically, some of these people must also have a mental illness (latent or otherwise) which could be aggravated by certain drugs. This is the only reason I can think of right now to continue with prohibition. However this certainly isn't enough to refute the multitude of logical and ethical arguments against it.
 
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Heroin maintenance is legal in Switzerland at two rehabs. I think that's the way to go, supply addicts with clean and free dope and tools, while they're isolated from society and working off their debts and at the same time go through a program to get clean or at least cut down.
 
Heroin shouuld be legalized. Half the reason people use drugs is for the taboo
quality. In holland from what im told by my relatives there. Mostly younger people and tourists smoke bud in shops. But other then that nobody really smokes grass.

I mean if you want drug use to go down legalize it start harm reduction techniques.
 
Actually, probably more than half of the people who refuse to do drugs do so for the taboo. I think taboo makes a stronger impression against drugs rather than for.

And I would believe it is curiosity, not taboo, that gets people into drugs.

Drug use goes up slightly if a substance is legalized. But I do not think it is an increase larger than 15%.

I do not see how legalization would bring upon any negative impacts, sociological or psychologically. Please provide why you think this.
 
Methadon is actually legal Heroin. Methadone and Subutex is free to everyone in my country(germany). Considering every serious addict i know is in methadone/subutex programm, i dont even want to think on the impact for our society, if that wasn't case. Black market prices would shot throught the roof, crime would really rise high. Acctually people spending money on heroin either have too much money or are stupid in my opinion. In Hamburg we have allready legal Heroin available under certain circumstaces like long time methadone+heroin abusus / Hep c or Hiv. But as i heard from people first hand they even search people joining that program because most just cant spend the time getting their dope 3 times a day. I think the max dose is 100mg x 3 times a day. If that dont hold you for the night you get even methadon/l-methadon(polamidon) for that time! Too bad i moved 3 years ago from hamburg away, and can only get methadone, which i still like more i hate the up and downs of heroin use, but i`m clean nowadays anyway...
 
legal heroin wouldn't work. not that i wouldn't enjoy it. but think about it any normal junky would wake up go get their medical heroin, go on with their normal day. and as soon as they had a chance (time/money) they'd go score some illegal heroin.
it would also probably increase people poly-abusing. like going and gettin their medical dope and then shooting coke or whatever
 
dankstersauce said:
but think about it any normal junky would wake up go get their medical heroin, go on with their normal day. and as soon as they had a chance (time/money) they'd go score some illegal heroin.
Why would they buy illegal heroin if legal heroin is available? They could buy all the heroin they want for all I care. Them taking heroin doesn't influence your life unless it's illegal and they have to steal in order to get money.

it would also probably increase people poly-abusing. like going and gettin their medical dope and then shooting coke or whatever
So what? Legalization wouldn't work because more people would do heroin and coke together?
 
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