Heroin "It's so good you only have to take it once"

[Them Witches]

where in the world does #4 heroin exist anymore ? Middle East or the Golden Triangle ?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

where in the world does #4 heroin exist anymore ? Middle East or the Golden Triangle ?

Shit I'd sure love to know.

Pretty sure it's still out there in Europe & dark net places. But because it's so hard to find now, people charge insane prices for a gram.

 

[4DQSAR]

Tramadol is an incredibly cheap compound i.e. under $100/Kg.

But it's not the enantiopure compound, it's the trans-pair. One is a classic opioid prodrug, the other monkeys around with extracellular monoamine levels so in overdose, it's considerably more hazardous than codeine.

Patents and patents to isolate the enantiopure compounds exist. US-5733936-A '6-dimethylaminomethyl-1-phenyl-cyclohexane compounds as pharmaceutical active ingredients' being an example.

The table in the patent shows that tramadol is a cheap precusor for the facile synthesis of compounds both more potent AND safer (the two rarely go together). Compound 2 being some x21.25 more potent as an analgesic that it's parent.

I actually found a study in which O-desmethyl tramadol was used in a human study and it revealed that just that one deprotection yielded a compound x4 more potent as an analgesic and having a TI around three times that if the parent compound.

So I remain mystified that nobody has gone down that path. I mean, 21.25x more potent than tramaol is in the range of H when it comes to potency.

Yes, the patent uses DAST for that fluorination but I'm led to understand safer alternatives now exist.

I'm in no way asserting that the compounds are safe, but since O-DMT is the active, swapping a tertiary hydroxyl for a tertiary fluoride group isn't a HUGE structural change. Also you are removing the enantiomer known to BE toxic. I would still want so see GC-MS and NMR to know with certainty the absolute conformation and composition of anyone offering such a product and even then, would keep an eye on metabolism.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

Depends completely on the person

I was 15 in the hospital with a twisted testicle in an immense amount of pain. They say that it is the same as pregnancy pain and I remember the oxycodone they gave me and the feeling to this day.

I am on Suboxone now and have been stable for over 12 years, but before that I was on methadone and using fentanyl on top for over a decade

Yet,

I have friends who have tried shooting up hydromorphone only once and said that it was so good they never want to try it again

I know people who have tried OxyContin only once.

I don’t understand how, but like I said, everyone is different

 

[4DQSAR]

Depends completely on the person

I suggest that opioids also symptomatically treat mental pain. So a person can legitimately be given a potent opioid for pain and rememer how it took away not only the physical distress but also the anxiety, depression and confusion such insults to the body can produce.

So a person can be prescribed once and DECADES later turn to them when their life becomes untenable, turn back to them. Others turn to alcohol.

I've said it before but opioids can be useful servants but make a terrible master.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Before 'THE DROUGHT' of 2010, the heroin we were getting in Dublin was white and totally different to the stuff thats around these days. The term China White was used a lot, and if it was or not is irrelevant however this product was mind-blowing. This Afghan #3 'brown' pales so staunchly in comparison that it almost seems like an entirely different different drug. Were it not for the withdrawals being so similar and many a urinalysis flagging for opiates I'd be inclined to say it is, but its not - its just a far weaker, dirtier and all round inferior product.

Also, as regards your comment concerning not being addicted after [using] a kilo of 100% heroin - I'll agree in the sense that were it 100% pure heroin you'd be well dead, however I'll disagree in that if you were to properly mix it down you would without question be addicted both psychologically and physically.

Thats not to say that you couldn't kick the habit. I've never agreed with the ever obtuse opinion that "once an addict, always an addict". I've kicked Heroin many times and for lengthy periods between those times too. My reasoning for going back was the same reason I picked it p to begin with: When my depression hits, so catastrophic is its effect on my life that it renders me incapable of actual speech and at its most starkly darkest of moments - movement. So, I would pick back up smoking it medicinally.



I recall a friend of mine sprinkled some into a one skinner of hash and it was magnificent. I described it as 'glorious', with my head titled back in the beer garden where none were the wiser. I think this was actually my very first time smoking it, and with no vomitus involved via that method (that came later when I first smoked it off foil). He had told me some months prior that he had been shooting up for almost two years yet I was completely oblivious which is wild in retrospect as me and this fella were glued at the hip - I mean we hung out about 6 days out of the week if not seven yet I never once saw him score until after I had that first smack sprinkled single skinner. I've tried it in a regular tobacco rollie to no avail; frankly it was a complete waste of both smack and tobacco as it canoed like crazy.

You obviously have a lot to learn if you think pure 100% Heroin is more likely to kill you than bashed stuff that you don't know the dose of.

The NHS literally prescribes pure Heroin to people as a painkiller and around 200 ex-street Heroin addicts.

It being 100% pure would mean you could literally measure the dose and know where your tolerance is at, so redosing is far safer and unless you're mixing it with other drugs then the risk of overdose is significantly lower.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Nothing against heroin users but you're insane if you think the average user is going to pay £100+ for scales accurate at the single mg level and carefully weight their doses out each hit

 

[4DQSAR]

Nothing against heroin users but you're insane if you think the average user is going to pay £100+ for scales accurate at the single mg level and carefully weight their doses out each hit

While I entirely take your point. H while classed as a potent opioid, it's only about twice as potent as morphine.

So while you might struggle to obtain milligram perfect dosing, you can use what I note is now more generally being termed 'volumetric dosing'.

Yes, diamorphine comes as dry amps as it's not stable in solution for the timespans involved in a medicine being produced, distributed, dispensed and finally used. If you are going to be using it in the next few days, I think it's OK.

A pharmacist I used to know used to make up Brompton Cocktails for palliative care and they used cocaine, diamorphine and tincture of cannabis. So it appears to be stable for a couple of weeks. In the end, hydrolysis yield actives so at worst potency goes down a bit.

But if you store as a solution, it's important to keep all materials aseptic.

But essentially uncut 'white' heroin is a niche product on the black market - it's the hydrochloride salt and can be snorted.

I'm not saying H is a good deal, only that experience and common sense are important.

 

[Them Witches]

Shit I'd sure love to know.

Pretty sure it's still out there in Europe & dark net places. But because it's so hard to find now, people charge insane prices for a gram.

The states need to create a drug program where the person applies to get their DOC or DOC's. Then they go to a store like complex, purchase it there to be used on site, and then be forced to maintain treatments for mental health, physical health, education of what the drug does, and group meetings. If they don't have the money, they have to do community serve for the treatment program. This would remove the cartels and street level dealing poor quality drugs cut with who knows what. I mean make it so it is affordable and it is not a walk-in get your drug and leave. They have to stay and work on their program. At some point, the program would replace the drug or the person would start to see things differently. Certain people with legit health issues would be able to get take homes.

And at some point people will get tired of having to jumping-jacks or other aspects some days, ultimately starting a cycle of taking the drug less and doing other things with there life. The current drug use or semi-abuse creates a chronic lifestyle of getting your fix, running home to shut the door to the world, and only listen to the old information in their head they only trust. Ones in our shoes needs to download old information to upload new information. Or 95% of our thinking is fucked and the other 5% we need to run by our sponsor, doctor, or group meeting. Simple, war on drugs and drug crisis plus prescription diversion to leave us chronic pain, chronic pain syndrome, and people getting decent acute/post-op pain management the F-ALONE. I just eliminated peer-pressure, your welcome... Fixed by a nobody like me. Or is the war on drugs a racket for MAT, jails, fines, big-pharma, drug-court, cops, military efforts, and pays the paychecks of those that supervise these groups of power. For real... what about the money going into the economy instead of buster-ass drug dealers and cartels? That aspect alone is a personal pay raise for the people needing the substance that costs pennies on the dollar to produce. I just made it easy to make sense that demands a professional plan not a sell us their truth response. After reading who can given vomit a comeback...

Them Witches and Bluelight Crew 2026 to chase dem' crazy ballheads out of town, Time to start learning to come to where the flavor is. We will pity those fools....

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Nothing against heroin users but you're insane if you think the average user is going to pay £100+ for scales accurate at the single mg level and carefully weight their doses out each hit

You can get scales that go down to 1mg that are perfectly fine for dosing opioids that are as strong as Heroin for £20 - £30 on Ebay and Wish!

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Yeah I have a pair of 30 quidders for use with suitable psychs but for a drug where the amount that feels good is so close to the amount that kills you I'd probably want something a touch better

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

@4DQSAR

You have a "history" in Chemistry or maybe working in the NHS?

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I've said it before but opioids can be useful servants but make a terrible master.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Shit I'd sure love to know.

Pretty sure it's still out there in Europe & dark net places. But because it's so hard to find now, people charge insane prices for a gram.

Northern Alliance told The Taliban to be blunt about it "Go Fuck Yourself" as their Tribal Area has always been a place of Outlaws & has NOTHING to do with the usual Wahhabism that runs Wild in the rest of the place.

I spoke to an old-timer who on the street is called "Paki George" & his been back to the Tribal Areas more times to "get clean" with Family more times than I had Hot Dinners & he said back in March "Money Talks & Bullshit Walks" when I asked him what it's like in The Tribal Areas of Pakistan in regard to Heroin Production.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I'm from Montreal and before the fentanyl came we would get killer heroin straight from India and China. Like the first time I did a hit I felt as if God had come down and given me a hug. Even the fentanyl is really good quality. I just had a batch that when smoked smelt and tasted exactly like the patches when I used to smoke em.

The reason the one time it was offered, in my own house.
So almost perfect setting, one worry towards the French kid of 17.
That bought the Heroine, and treated it just as you would Hash.
I declined.

Smelled real nice, yellow/ greenish/ brownish powder.
Hope Fentanyl never sets foot here, but NL sure could be exporting it.
Around the time of the blanket ban on RCs. Criminals will fully concentrate.
On profitable illegal substance s, let s hope they are integer.

Half the busted Labs this year, simultaneously made RCs and illegal drug s.
Worst case Meth/ Fentanyl or -Nitazenes, or who know s.

 

[4DQSAR]

@4DQSAR

You have a "history" in Chemistry or maybe working in the NHS?

I know a lot of people. I listen to them but then I check very carefully indeed. Belt and braces so to say.

Long, long ago I studed the subject formally. But now I just dip my toe in from time to time to see what's new.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

I suggest that opioids also symptomatically treat mental pain. So a person can legitimately be given a potent opioid for pain and rememer how it took away not only the physical distress but also the anxiety, depression and confusion such insults to the body can produce.

So a person can be prescribed once and DECADES later turn to them when their life becomes untenable, turn back to them. Others turn to alcohol.

I've said it before but opioids can be useful servants but make a terrible master.

This is why oral bioavailability matters so much and why oxycodone is so much more addicting than morphine…if they would’ve just given me simple morphine tablets I would not have had the same amount of euphoria. Taking morphine orally does nothing to me except make me feel itchy and cranky. IV or IM it’s euphoric. OXY has 86% bioavailability 5mg Percocets were addicting enough but then they released OXYCONTIN (freebase OXY lol) so basically they exposed everyone to the same type of opioid high that usually you would need to inject to achieve.

 

[4DQSAR]

This is why oral bioavailability matters so much and why oxycodone is so much more addicting than morphine…if they would’ve just given me simple morphine tablets I would not have had the same amount of euphoria. Taking morphine orally does nothing to me except make me feel itchy and cranky. IV or IM it’s euphoric. OXY has 86% bioavailability 5mg Percocets were addicting enough but then they released OXYCONTIN (freebase OXY lol) so basically they exposed everyone to the same type of opioid high that usually you would need to inject to achieve.

But the equianalgesic dose of oral morhphine is much higher and I would argue more liable to feed the needle.

Oxycodone certainly isn't for everyone which is why the BNF lists quite a few.

But I am surprised that a patient recieving oxycodonee would be refused morphine if the former medication causes unacceptable side-effeects. Could be the needle thing, I suppose.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

Potency and euphoria or “likability” are two different things. Stronger potency does not mean “better high”. Heroin is nowhere near as strong as FENT but it has a better high

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

But the equianalgesic dose of oral morhphine is much higher and I would argue more liable to feed the needle.

Oxycodone certainly isn't for everyone which is why the BNF lists quite a few.

But I am surprised that a patient recieving oxycodonee would be refused morphine if the former medication causes unacceptable side-effeects. Could be the needle thing, I suppose.

I don’t know about that. 10mg of morphine PO is = 5mg OXY po