Heroin "It's so good you only have to take it once"

[Them Witches]

I would strongly suggest you treat clomethiazole with extreme respect. It's only really suitable for in-patient settings and in patients who aren't using non-prescribed CNS depressants. Great for status epilepticus, superb for alcohol detoxification but a medicine I would personally consider a DLR.

In the UK during the 1970s GPs were over-prescribing clomethiazole for outpatient treatment of alcohol detoxification and just a couple of drinks can result in very bad outcomes.

It's every bit as dangerous as barbiturates and produce that same loss of judgement and memory so people would often redose by accident. In the end we ended up with a special clomethiazole detoxification unit in Cambridge. So I would suggest it's likely just as dependence forming.

Glad you are off the stuff, don't want to see you coming to grief with the stuff.

If you already know all of the above, I can only apologise and suggest that it may be of value to other BLers.

And my point again, there are certain percentages of these drugs work for people and their bodies at that moment, forsee into a chunk of the future they will be fine, need to be documented asap.

Without good true consulting over the medications and allowing those that can tolerant some medicines viewed taboo by mainstream due to 1st edition training medical data not being updated with current truths. This way us patients do not have to sell our truths to predisposed views of doctors and medical staff.

Honestly, me. they could learn a few things from me about opiate and opioids after 38 years of dependence starting at 7 before the brain developed. I am a sharp mindedh person with some issues that could be from the meds or not. We will never know. But I can spit back and forth with a pain management doctor about how much mme will work for people like me without crossing a safe good baseline past where it is sensitive to the patient. I predict it stopping the use that meds were doing for dependence management well enough for non-cancer chronic pain at at least 65% great pain management with room to grow for acute pain post-op procedures and /or how long can this man at this dependence level maintain before 100% suggesting a small increase medically needed without messing up that room to grow.

Getting this type of information from the methadone clinic as to why a none pain patient needs to increase to 180mg after 6 months off being of fentanyl cuz they are complaining about at the 21st hour of the day I wake up sneezing, yawning, and having to poop and throw up at the same time. I am calling bullshit at this. I am calling bullshit confidently for a 2 year non-cancer chronic pain patient on 370MME that my body is just not getting enough and my pain too uncontrolled. Sorry not sorry if it is not some serious shit happening and all options have been exhausted it is too early. And the increase would be unjustified typically, not with everyone, close to all though, because the increase base based some low-key addict hints that have disrupted the professional medical judgement prediction the doctor had in mind case related 6 months ago for the last increase. these hints are going to happen in this condition. the have to be managed well first being mentally stronger than 2 weeks ago. We will never be written enough to be 100% out of pain everyday, that makes zero sense if we are on hospice end-game. We need flux in the brain to survive our world we live in regardless of pain.

Now hear me out, pain sucks. Chronic pain sucks. chronic pain after 2-4 years sucks more. this condition declining after 7-8 years going to be difficult and hard to prevent changes that will happen in the patients brain related to reward system wants from too much opioids mixed with daily pain that the correct baseline is important and would have been crossed not to set room for improvement and stay below medical laws for the amount narcotic for non-cancer pain. Limit opioid Rx is only for cancer, hospice, and late stage nursing homes. Too much too such soon now the patient is a risk and DEA keeps calling the pharmacy and doctor causing the patient to be forced too early off the drugs. Another street fentanyl addict loss with a scared medical history and they needed more surgery and 4 years later they caught cancer too. Another failed patient or a blamed patient.
At a certain point with these meds, the patient has to play follow the leader and know when it is correct to ask to take the reins for minute til doctor can catch up to pace with 40-50 patients a week stand up for, it is trust both ways, give and pull.

 

[Them Witches]

THREE. That's the very top end of the prescribable dose range (assuming them to be 192mg clomethiazole freebase in an oily suspension).

Nitrazepam is, as the name suggests, a nitrobenzodiazepine so don't assume it to be as non-toxic as, say, diazepam. I looked at the suicide-rate in Sweden and noted that a huge number were intentional overdoses of nitrazepam, flunitrazepam and to a lesser extent clonazepam. Now to me it's counter-intuative that flunitrazepam is MORE toxic than nitrazepam and I'm not sure if anyone knows the exact reason - but it shocked me.

So when I see RC nitrobenzodiazepines... I tend to think that yes, it's likely the most potent so most profitable, but once again, loss off judgement, loss of memory means as powders - they seem a bad idea.

Thing is - Survivorship bias might suggest more safety than is in fact the case.

this way key. to add doctors to be mindfull to not write too much medicine too soon that the patient has too much ease filing information to the bad parts of the human brain that work against us and have all the medicine for the month let too. I mean if my doctor gave me 300 extra Ativan my weak parts my brain may get too many ideas if something gets tuff. now hard to predict but not over writing for certain meds as practice helps reduce this syndrome that somehow clicks in peoples heads after too much stress, pain, medicine depression, fully teach medicine rare contradictions with the patient. I am out

 

[4DQSAR]

It's been my experience that expectation management is key. Don't just take a pill because it's 'pill o-clock'. Decide if you really need it.

I'm lucky in one way - my medication produces DYSPHORIA so I have to weigh up if the pain or the anxiety is the lesser evil.

But I am someone who has a healthy respect for such medications and recognize that I simply cannot increase the dose so I have a theraputic window I need to stay within. My consultant was happy that after more than a decade I was actually not asking for more and provided coping stratergies for pain alongside medication.

It's sad that doctors are so often seen as 'pill pushers' when the good ones try to figure out the best outcomes for each patient.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[Ismene2]

Ok that’s a distinction then. Regardless of the pain being physical or psychological opioids are used in medicine because they allow the user to remain mostly “sober minded”…”underwhelming” as you put it, without changing the persons ability to think. While tripping a person can’t behave normally or work or study because they are too altered.

opioids are pretty boring but that’s the beauty of them. No chaos, complete comfort. IV hydromorphone is one unique opioid that shines as the rush is incredible and not replicated by any other opioid.

Do you like mixing H with anything? Ive got a few sheets of 5mg sustained release morphine and Im finding it mixes really well with Rick simpson oil. Im off work so Ive been taking turns on capsules of RSO and pills of morphine. Im at about 35,000 feet right now.

 

[Them Witches]

It's been my experience that expectation management is key. Don't just take a pill because it's 'pill o-clock'. Decide if you really need it.

At 6am we talking about this over a campfire today lol... This makes sense most of the time to us. For doctors they are not allowed to dive into off-track logic even a little bit because to them it is non-compliance of an order based on their previous projects for the next increase of time for step therapy. Hear me out... the patient maybe doing a reward medications and will try this, then their body actually needed those tiny extra doses and built up over a period of time sending a alarm signal to the brain. Related reward seeking, the patient has been "so good by this practice, they justifiably deserve to have a reward" then that day those alarms bells created the patient blindly to take a "reward dose" of more than the order 2 at morning and 2 at night. In rapid session because of factors honestly unknown to us at the time, now 2 doses in the morning is not cutting it all of a sudden, creating a repeating inclining pattern every other bad day taking more of the ordered dose. They have entered the deadly cycle these things can easily do to patients in these conditions and they end up contacting the doctor 45 days earlier than he "projected by the order"...thus non-compliance gets blamed.

The discouraged patient now looses faith in the system trying to do better than the structure in stone naturally introducing our personalities over principle. A doctor concludes in principle for the order to rule out all these little tiny things typically the patient hasn't gone through yet. It is best to play dumb with doctors and allow them room to fill in the blank so they feel useful. I would not have faith in myself too early in this type of game even though it would be easy to pull off saving some meds and still filling on the correct scheduled date. Flipside fill 2 days late a couple times they doctor sees non-compliance hints and can't 100% tell the DEA or governing bodies this person is still needing the meds as much so technically he is telling a halfish truths makings risks for all involved.

Also until a patient has it all dialed their program and boundaries, having extra meds on hand is temping for diversion even innocent for a loved girlfriend or boyfriend. Or someone who is not as loyal as you think, I have now create loose ends that will wreck my program and future medical needs. or the stocked up pills caused the old double the dose trick as a reward only on the bad days. How long will act hold water with type of meds. This is why these meds need to be available for everyone almost within reason to do away diversion concerns of all parties involved. Yes, I should charge for this post to someone getting narcotics from their doctor to prevent all future issues.

I came up with blabber mouth explanation by trying this procedure and bit me in ass because I changed my physical dependence just enough to make a difference that teamed up with the reward of now knowing all I have to do is starting one more every now and then. It made perfect sense atm. Certain meds have tight ship schedule like Roxi 30's or Ativan 2mg or Hydromorphone 4mg even Ambien or Lusnesta. None of these drugs are strong enough like Clonidine or Meth/Speed or Methadone with these dynamic full-life. Clonidine data needs to updated for daily doses above 0.6mg - now a 97% full-life

 

[4DQSAR]

I don't have to 'play dumb' with my doctor. I'm not a doctor. Let alone a consultant.

I HAVE noted that in the US NOT taking a medication is considered 'non complience'. In the UK it's seen as the way to produce the best outcomes. Do they test if people take their statins or beta-blockers or is it limited to things that might be abused? I ask because I honestly do not know.

I also don't give my medication to ANYONE. Again, because I'm not a doctor.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Do you like mixing H with anything? Ive got a few sheets of 5mg sustained release morphine and Im finding it mixes really well with Rick simpson oil. Im off work so Ive been taking turns on capsules of RSO and pills of morphine. Im at about 35,000 feet right now.

My favorite thing to mix it with is soma. But this is very dangerous to a opioid naive user.

I haven’t done stimulants in over a decade but opioids are great to mix with amphetamine if you’re into stimulants.

 

[Ismene2]

because I'm not a doctor.

Im not a doctor unless you count witchdoctor!

 

[Shambles]

Do you like mixing H with anything? Ive got a few sheets of 5mg sustained release morphine and Im finding it mixes really well with Rick simpson oil. Im off work so Ive been taking turns on capsules of RSO and pills of morphine. Im at about 35,000 feet right now.

Cocaine/crack, naturally. Also MDMA makes for a divine combo. TBH most psyches go great with poppy products too. Oh and ketamine. Definitely ketamine. Ket plus opium resin (different but similar… ish) is one of my all time fave combos

 

[Them Witches]

I don't have to 'play dumb' with my doctor. I'm not a doctor. Let alone a consultant.

I HAVE noted that in the US NOT taking a medication is considered 'non complience'. In the UK it's seen as the way to produce the best outcomes. Do they test if people take their statins or beta-blockers or is it limited to things that might be abused? I ask because I honestly do not know.

I also don't give my medication to ANYONE. Again, because I'm not a doctor.

your right, i am babbler mouth and making things too complex that leading to possibly hints throwing dart. I was not doing that. I took my yearly one dose a adderall and I am not my normal considering self. forgive me please, thanks man

I should said we can't ever starve a bees nest nor kick it. The following those strict doctors is the ticket.

this adderall needs to stop working, shift is over.

The beta-blocker and statins blood plasma level checks does not happen over here unless you in a trial medication thing with a specialist heart Dr and that is not all of them. They think they know everything without facts checking.

The people the US that get pill counted, blood plasma level checked are those the higher-end pain management where you are being prescribed an ass-ton of narcotic that is checked more because the DEA calls due job justifications, "hey someone pay attention to me work" so the will check on those with ass-ton Rx counts because of diversion possibilities. If someone messes up out side of pain management or in, they will order test thoses.

And the US they have changed laws on writing how long 7 days max for post-op narcotic Rx's at the lowest dosage no refill unless the Dr is 100% knows the rehab will difficult And the DEA just changed the laws and their ability to dictate how much narcotic a pharmacy can order monthly in contrast with the capital monthly, what customers they have at times and ask diversion questions to cause a chain reaction causing a call to the practice for leave "suggestions - a suttle command" about patients status being close to time to taper and if the pharmacy gets tired of it they will turn away the patient if they are new and have make any choices that would hurt their loyal regulars they know have prognosis poor status and a 3 story building of records filling schedules perfectly. They have changed the definition of opioid tolerant, MME cap before it is too much for 75% of us, and when chronic pain begins after 3 months. They yet to accurately define when chronic pain syndrome starts but is said that 25% of chronic patients get the syndrome a with symptoms listed from syndrome tweak.

Reputation now here is king and non-defending type patients stay on the ordering schedule never to return to walk-in status. This also the small independent pharmacies not like CVS, Walgreens, Chain Stores "my independent pharmacy has lower out of pocket rates, they always order Mallinckrodt generics, Sandoz generics which are always equal or 1.5% weaker in active ingredient like Brand pain meds in the US. Out of pocket CVS will charge me $500 for my Roxi 30's @ 180ct and give shit about I should 12 pills left on the 29th day and 31st it will be ready. then they will either not tell we ran and tried to call you but your phone cut us off. If I go to their ass any they call the doctor on me. The allows here allow generics to contain different filler and up to 20% weaker in active ingredients verses Brand Name pain meds, along benzos.

No joke man, Sanzos brand name and generic fentanyl 100mcg patches both contain 16.4mg fentanyl and Waston generics 100mcg are 10mg. I found out that the hard way with a month premature withdrawls wearing the Watson patch.

No joke, I go to my small independent and they never give a shit if I fill on day 29 at 9am which gives 12 extra 30's a month, out of pocket is $64 USD. My insurance is $1.64 for 180ct. Mallinckrodt generics. My doctor says nothing the extra 12 per month I do not ever have mention justify it. $1.64 for 180ct I think "high-score" or considered 1st place in a 1,500 square mile radius and undisputed reining champion. I also pay out of pocket $42 USD for Mallinckrodt Methadone 10mg 90-150ct and that is a 29 day 9am bringing the pharmacy staff morning dognuts and pre-paid cards for dinner every now and then. You know make sure I never hear those dreaded words I hear them tell walk-ins and some regulars at 9:10am to please come back at 2pm we are swamped. Not this guy. They also don't say shit about me running Clonidine 5 days early each month recently. Doctor neither, I am good patient.

Never made those calls in that I ran out too early in over 20 years filling and I have dropped my half-full bottle to potty needing a one-time bail me out.....lol hahahah Man I know all the tricks, considerations the laws made to fill 2 days early for convenience encase it is not available I need to go into full hunt mode to avoid the withdrawals or have get turned at 5 places cuz the don't invest Mallinckrodt or I am competing walk-in needing offset their limited capital monthly order and serve their regulars. Is is cut throat here, yes. If not grandfathered well before new laws came out and if they have prognosis poor status the DEA will lean on the provider until they cave. This why so many American's got forced to heroin and fentanyl.

If I was in the UK, I 100% qualify for daily pharma grade diamorphine 3 times a day with hydromorphine breakthru once to twice daily with benzo and clonidine. I will run the UK's fax machine for16hrs straight and burn 8 carts of ink with my 4 story stack medical records to the UK before I get there so they can have my dosing schedule waiting when I get off the plane. I think about this regularly but I am strong into the fold here and my daughter is still only 13 so I for time being unless the dollar basically crash before this time. And now I want a 90 days VISA there I could plan my schedule 2's, 4's requested for 90 days, I wanted come check it all out first and set my needs up first. Yeah it is there or work for poppy in India and wear savage clothes and finish a beard.

 

[Them Witches]

My favorite thing to mix it with is soma. But this is very dangerous to a opioid naive user.

I haven’t done stimulants in over a decade but opioids are great to mix with amphetamine if you’re into stimulants.

Soma's generic name should be "beast cave"

That methamphetamine is bowling a strike each throw with bumpers in the gutters for a 40hr shift.

 

[4DQSAR]

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[DeathIndustrial88]

Potency and euphoria or “likability” are two different things. Stronger potency does not mean “better high”. Heroin is nowhere near as strong as FENT but it has a better high

Absolutely true!


People who don't know enough about pharmacology always think that because something is more potent then it must be better, but that's just not how it works. Potency just means it takes less of that drug to an achieve an effect than it would from a less potent drug.

Northern Alliance told The Taliban to be blunt about it "Go Fuck Yourself" as their Tribal Area has always been a place of Outlaws & has NOTHING to do with the usual Wahhabism that runs Wild in the rest of the place.

I spoke to an old-timer who on the street is called "Paki George" & his been back to the Tribal Areas more times to "get clean" with Family more times than I had Hot Dinners & he said back in March "Money Talks & Bullshit Walks" when I asked him what it's like in The Tribal Areas of Pakistan in regard to Heroin Production.

I would give anything to be on heroin again. It'd keep me from doing stupid bullshit like meth or alcohol or other drugs that are 100x more harmful to my physical & mental health. America is fuckin disgusting for continuing their draconian drug war policies for this long & letting so many people suffer & have shit lives.

 

[Shambles]

On the potency = good discussion… I couldn’t agree more. Much as fent is strong as a mfer it’s also severely lacking on the actual enjoyability front. Gets you nodding hward but doesn’t last long and just doesn’t feel all that great. Give me heroin or oxy over fent any day.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

Soma's generic name should be "beast cave"

That methamphetamine is bowling a strike each throw with bumpers in the gutters for a 40hr shift.

lol I was such an idiot. I used to pop those like candy because they were not a controlled substance so the doctors would prescribe it, but then they took it away in 2012. Watson Soma 350mg. I have no idea if it’s euphoric by itself but with the benzos and opioids it knocked me out

 

[Them Witches]

lol I was such an idiot. I used to pop those like candy because they were not a controlled substance so the doctors would prescribe it, but then they took it away in 2012. Watson Soma 350mg. I have no idea if it’s euphoric by itself but with the benzos and opioids it knocked me out

Yes Indeed... My Dr will Rx 1400mg of Soma if I only have 1 sch2 Rx Roxicodone 210mg. I rather trade the Soma for Methadone 40mg and Ativan 2mg. Then Rx either Zanaflex 24-32mg or Flexeril 30mg every 4 months. Since nurses nicknamed me "whole patient", I make sure to not let them down.

 

[4DQSAR]

We were taught a very simple rule which is 'there is no such thing as a non-addictive CNS depressant'.

Some may not produce physical dependence, although Iwould still take the box outside and read the small print even on stuff like clonidine) but the body will always attempt to maintain homeostasis and since being wide awake was and to an extent still is an evolutionary advantage, the body will tend to respond if you try to dampen that down.

So after much tooing and froing with my consultant, I'm prescribed the myoclonus medication with the least CNS depressant side-effects and an analgesic that positively wakes me up (but not in a good way).

Never forget what a given medication is supposed to do. If you are simply after what any doctor would consider a side-effect, you are likely to be taking quite a lot.

Doctors struggle with the interaction of just two medications so as you are prescribed more than two, it's only their experience that guides them as to the likely outcomes.

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I give you the example of Keith Moon. Took literally tens of thousands of pills in his lifetime, was hospitalized twice - once because he was spiked, the other just because he was too messed up to play. But he survived it all.

Then he had a few lines of coke, two glasses of wine and his prescribed clomethiazole (Heminevrin). Now he did take a lot of them but who is to say that being such a potent CNS depressant, he forgot he had taken them and took more. This was quite common. Jimi Hendrix did the same with alcohol and an unfamiliar German-brand of barbiturate which was FOUR times more potent than the ones he was used to. It happens. But surviorship bias means BLers cannot tell us when it's all gone horribly wrong.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

My Doctor is very good I am extremely lucky

Not alot of Suboxone providers will allow their patients to also take Xanax and Dexamphetamine

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I would give anything to be on heroin again. It'd keep me from doing stupid bullshit like meth or alcohol or other drugs that are 100x more harmful to my physical & mental health. America is fuckin disgusting for continuing their draconian drug war policies for this long & letting so many people suffer & have shit lives.

Why you so badly wish to be back on Heroin again?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Why you so badly wish to be back on Heroin again?

I've lived with severe major depression (which also causes my whole body to hurt) daily since I was about 12 years old (I'm 37 now).

And heroin (and various other opioids) have been the only drugs that actually alleviate it without either substantially impairing me or making me feel flat & apathetic (like SSRIs do). It gave me natural energy & motivation (not forced anxious energy like stimulants). It got rid of my whole body aching, which allowed me to be more physically active (which improves health by getting more exercise). It calmed my extreme borderline personality emotions. Enhanced my creativity & creative output. Made all the boring moments tolerable. Made life tolerable in general. Stops suicidal ideation in in tracks.

It also acted as an anti-addiction agent for me (I know, ironic right?). But when I did not have heroin or opioids, I would get shit-face wasted on alcohol, smoke meth, trip on robitussin, pop as many pills of whatever as I could, anything to get rid of my psychic & physical pain. But when I have heroin/opioids, it completely eliminates my desire for alcohol or most other drugs (besides maybe cannabis). So ultimately, I'm healthier, physically & mentally on heroin/opioids, than I am without them.

It offered the same antidepressant effect that I'd say psychedelics can provide. Except with heroin/opioids, it can be used every day. Where as psychedelics require long term breaks & the antidepressant effect only works for the duration of the trip & then within a day or so, I'm back to being my depressed self. But with heroin, I can use it every day to treat my depression & still get an effect from it, even when I had a tolerance.

It's like asking some one who's starving why they'd like to eat again. lol
SSRIS / SNRIS have never helped my depression & at times have actually made it worse or caused me a whole set of new problems.
Heroin is a wonder drug for people like me. The only real issues I got from it came from it being illegal & not from the drug itself.

I've been an opioid user for 18 years (roughly) now (although the last 8 years have been mostly buprenorphine, with random vacations with other opioids here or there once in awhile). And I've never OD'ed or had any sort of crazy issues from opioids. They're incredibly benign compared to say... getting shit face wasted every day on alcohol. Or being a tweaker. In so many ways.