Heroin "It's so good you only have to take it once"

[Ismene2]

I remembered an old Howard Marks interview from years ago - not sure if it's on youtube I've not looked - but it was a panel show about legalising drugs and there was a consensus on the panel of "Of course you can't legalise heroin because one dose and you are an addict for the rest of your life". Howard in his quiet and thoughtful way said "No, I know lots of people who take Heroin recreationally". Everyone was saying "how irresponsible of you to say that".

That's my experience of Heroin - this idea that the high is so great - is it bollocks. Any psychedelic pisses all over a Heroin high for euphoria and fun. You can go out walking and see the world anew and a thousand other things. I'd rate coke a better high. Especailly the fucking shit Heroin you get in the UK. I used to take it maybe 2 or 3 times a year. Snort a gram in a week and by the fourth day I was usually thinking - I'm just snorting this so I can get rid of it. Boring as fuck. Just laid there feeling a bit floaty and content. So fucking what? The idea of being addicted to it? If you gave me a kilo of 100% pure heroin I still wouldn't be an addict.

For anyone who is a heroin addict - all the best to you and I can understand your problem. But it's a very small minority of people who would be in a position in their life to find heroin addicting.

(I used to be a friend of Howards - if you emailed him he'd reply. I sent him the full John Lennon Rolling stone interview when you could only get it bootleg and he sent me some tickets to a gig and I met him backstage. Great guy - you could talk to him about literature not just dope)

 

[Bleaney]

I think some people are predisposed to love it right from the get go, while others may have to work at it to discover what all the fuss is about.

Didn't you say that you'd combined it with some THC distillate a while ago, and found that very pleasant?

Lots of people say that weed or hash tops off, or makes a big difference to many different kinds of opiate experiences.

I'm even finding that weed is enhancing some kratom I have that is not the greatest (at least not for my brain chemistry.) Although it's a stretch to call kratom an opiate, it does act via the same receptors, and some you tube psychiatrist compares the best kratom strains to opium! The guy is generally pretty credible in what he says, so I wouldnt dismiss that claim. He makes fairly in depth 20-30 minutes videos about many many different drugs or substances. Some medicinal, some recreational, some illegal.

Link copied for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/@wellnowdoctor5976/videos

No wonder I loved that top grade kratom from the 2010s so much! I had no idea it could be comparable to such a substance as opium. Although those red tranquil strains were blissfully sublime, so it makes sense........

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I remembered an old Howard Marks interview from years ago - not sure if it's on youtube I've not looked - but it was a panel show about legalising drugs and there was a consensus on the panel of "Of course you can't legalise heroin because one dose and you are an addict for the rest of your life". Howard in his quiet and thoughtful way said "No, I know lots of people who take Heroin recreationally". Everyone was saying "how irresponsible of you to say that".

That's my experience of Heroin - this idea that the high is so great - is it bollocks. Any psychedelic pisses all over a Heroin high for euphoria and fun. You can go out walking and see the world anew and a thousand other things. I'd rate coke a better high. Especailly the fucking shit Heroin you get in the UK. I used to take it maybe 2 or 3 times a year. Snort a gram in a week and by the fourth day I was usually thinking - I'm just snorting this so I can get rid of it. Boring as fuck. Just laid there feeling a bit floaty and content. So fucking what? The idea of being addicted to it? If you gave me a kilo of 100% pure heroin I still wouldn't be an addict.

For anyone who is a heroin addict - all the best to you and I can understand your problem. But it's a very small minority of people who would be in a position in their life to find heroin addicting.

(I used to be a friend of Howards - if you emailed him he'd reply. I sent him the full John Lennon Rolling stone interview when you could only get it bootleg and he sent me some tickets to a gig and I met him backstage. Great guy - you could talk to him about literature not just dope)

I used to come out with this shit as well, before it grabbed me by the balls.

Opiates are insidious - addiction happens without you realising it, until you try to stop.


Many drugs provide a better high, but the appeal of heroin is its ability to make life endurable. And if you already find life to be endurable, then heroin will soon make sure that you don't.


Heroin is a bitch...

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

People are different. I never really liked heroin or other opioids much, but I love alcohol and stims. Some people aren't into alcohol or stims much at all. If you look at the behaviour of heroin users, it's clear they're enjoying it quite a bit

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

My experience is essentially the title of your post. I snorted a 20mg oxycodone capsule when I was 16 and for a good 5 years after that every single moment of every single day was spend getting or trying to get high. I can't describe exactly why exactly I'm attracted to opioids (as a tool for getting high and as the idol of a hopeless dope fiend) but it surely has something to do with deterministic events taking place from my birth to now influencing my preference of drugs (and everything else).

I personally think opioids are the most euphoric and desirable recreational drugs with the exception of what I can only describe as 'polypharmacy overdoses that felt great and didn't kill me somehow'. Far more then high dose stimulants, MDMA and psychedelics. One thing I have noticed is that since I've integrated into society, found a bit of success and have a good family life it seems my desire for heroin is a lot lower then to how much I'd idolized it previously.

If I had to be as objective as possible, I believe most people would say something like high dose MDMA combined with nitrous oxide is the most euphoric drug state qualitatively.

 

[foodcrisis]

i don't have any experience with heroin, but have done a bit of oxycontin and morphine... i have to say, the lower doses are kind of boring... i actually kind of trip out on higher doses, but the next day is hell... psychedelics make me feel great the next day and are generally way more fun... i'm not really an opiate guy..... for years i liked downers, but as time went on i lost interest and stuff like adderall and coke had more appeal for me.

 

[dsd]

I used to come out with this shit as well, before it grabbed me by the balls.

Opiates are insidious - addiction happens without you realising it, until you try to stop.


Many drugs provide a better high, but the appeal of heroin is its ability to make life endurable. And if you already find life to be endurable, then heroin will soon make sure that you don't.


Heroin is a bitch...

Great post.
The high/ buzz / monging out , might be crappy but there's a reason so many are on it for decades.

It just makes the day better.

You can't compare a H buzz to ,say, a crack buzz. Crack high is easily identifiable but H not so easy to describe.

 

[daturetard]

I've had these exact thoughts on psychedelics. The issue is that opioids solve (some of) people's issues. Psychedelics don't keep you warm, keep you from shitting yourself, content regardless... psychedelics are great and they help you become a better person, but have you ever been yelled at on acid? You feel so small and insignificant. It potentiates emotions, good and bad, opioids only potentiate the good. It's hard to live constantly tripped out, but if you always want to be fucked up, at the right dose, nobodyll know you're on opioids.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've been an opioid addict for 17 years now.

I've done plenty of acid, shrooms, DXM & 1 2-cb trip. Of course the euphoria from these can blow opioids out of the water at times.

But psychedelics aren't really drugs you can do EVERY DAY to get an effect. You also can't really function on psychedelics (sure, maybe some long time users could if they wanted, but that acid isn't gonna be do much for you by day 2-3).

Opioids are drugs that can bring on almost the same level of euphoria, contentedness & inner peace feelings, without all the jumbled up, confusing & trippy aspects of a psychedelic trip.

This is why I prefer heroin/opioids over psychedelics any day. Yeah they can get boring at times once you reach a high tolerance, but you just gotta bring your tolerance back down some. It takes some discipline.


I tried my first opioids around 15/16 years old. Mostly hydrocodone & codeine. And to be honest, I found them pretty boring. Me & my brother would use them & drink 40ozs on em & that was about it. It wasn't until I was 19 & took 400mg of tramadol that I suddenly felt the TRUE power of opioid euphoria. That 400mg had me itching, stimulated, relaxed, euphoric, blissful, social, energetic, motivated, good mood, all of it. Completely erased my depression (at least acutely while the effects were present). From that day forward, I was hooked. Didn't get a taste of heroin til I was 25. I'll be 37 now in a few months.

Nothing beats those first few years on tramadol or heroin though. Not even acid. And I love acid. It's hard to get those same highs back from opioids. And I think it takes more than using several times before you actually start to get the true euphoric & blissful effects of opioids.

It's been about 17 years now since that first time doing tramadol & I've been on some form of opioid ever since. I romanticize my tramadol & heroin days because they were some of the best days of my life. And I think about them every single day when I first wake up (and I'm on Suboxone maintenance!)....

So yeah, maybe it's different for others, but I literally think about heroin every single day from the moment I wake up. That's how powerful it was for me.

 

[Foreigner]

When I was in my 20s, I heard the same urban myth... "you get addicted after the first time." So I tried it just as an act of rebellion. I actually didn't like being knocked flat by it and I found the high kind of uninteresting. I could see though why the sheer intensity of it was appealing to some. Later in life when I got seriously ill, I was using morphine and dilaudid a lot for pain every single day. I hated the high but ended up physically addicted anyway. So I was stuck taking this drug I didn't like just to stop withdrawal convulsions.

Opiates suck. I much prefer stimulants.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

With only Kratom and one Codeine experience. I d say no.
Kratom was reinforcing, but is not noddy but a allrounder.
The Opiod effects part, and the WD s easy ime.

o-DSMT, that felt as a real addicting Opioid. Took it once in a while.
So one use didn t get me addicted, can t compare it with Heroine.
Which especially IV seems like the recipe.
But as it gave the nods and itch must be a bit closer to H.

Oxycodone i got prescribed once, but after reading over that on BB.
Just took the 3 x 5 mg a day. Never more. Drew a line for myself.
So till ... i can only speculate on how a recreative dose of it will be.

But as prescribed it was the best and only time a dr. actually cared.
Bout a patient, that was a nice surprise.

 

[Jnowhere]

---

What is o-DSMT?

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Opiates are insidious - addiction happens without you realising it, until you try to stop.


Many drugs provide a better high, but the appeal of heroin is its ability to make life endurable. And if you already find life to be endurable, then heroin will soon make sure that you don't.

QFT

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

---

What is o-DSMT?

O-desmethyl tramadol. It's the main active metabolite of tramadol, but doesn't have the potential risk of serotonin syndrome that tramadol presents.

It's a very good substitute for heroin that is orally active, and I can't believe it was actually legal for a while.

 

[Bleaney]

I can't believe it was actually legal for a while.

Yep, crazy times!

I'd say that o-DSMT along with all the original trail blazing pre-banned substances, with Mephedrone, MXE, GBL, and MDPV among those all feeling to me like the the most 'these substances are all far too good / potent / addictive to be legal.' And yet they were, for years, in some cases.

If the Accursed Daily Mail etc hadnt got hold of the story, I think this played a part IIRC, perhaps it would have taken the government and legal system even longer to hear what was going on, and then eventually decide on what action to take.

So much happened during those crazy years!

 

[jasperkent]

For anyone who is a heroin addict - all the best to you and I can understand your problem. But it's a very small minority of people who would be in a position in their life to find heroin addicting.

See Drug Use For Grownups by Dr. Carl Hart:
https://g.co/kgs/Kg5z1ZE

Some people, like me, become alcoholics with their very first drink. That doesn't mean alcohol should be made illegal. It wouldn't help anyone anyway-- we tried that with Prohibition in the US. It didn't stop people from drinking, but it created all kinds of problems (organized crime, poisonous liquor, etc) that legal booze does not.
Same thing with other drugs, IMHO.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

See Drug Use For Grownups by Dr. Carl Hart:
https://g.co/kgs/Kg5z1ZE

Some people, like me, become alcoholics with their very first drink. That doesn't mean alcohol should be made illegal. It wouldn't help anyone anyway-- we tried that with Prohibition in the US. It didn't stop people from drinking, but it created all kinds of problems (organized crime, poisonous liquor, etc) that legal booze does not.
Same thing with other drugs, IMHO.

Whats more problematic your normal doc rather let you die then help you himself.
So afaik he might as well die.

So he redirects you to the only DETOX available, knowing it is shit.
They had a 100 year outdated stand on addiction, 90 % relapse rate !

And when the state privatised insurance.
Logically, they are not allowed to make profit, shit what now.
Well lets use budget we are ment to spend on o.a. Mental Healthcare.

And use it to make our prizes lower, more con-curating. Smart !

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Yep, crazy times!

I'd say that o-DSMT along with all the original trail blazing pre-banned substances, with Mephedrone, MXE, GBL, and MDPV among those all feeling to me like the the most 'these substances are all far too good / potent / addictive to be legal.' And yet they were, for years, in some cases.

If the Accursed Daily Mail etc hadnt got hold of the story, I think this played a part IIRC, perhaps it would have taken the government and legal system even longer to hear what was going on, and then eventually decide on what action to take.

So much happened during those crazy years!

Not legal like Alcohol not even tolerated like Weed, sold because of a law loophole.

Non beats Alcohol in being bad, but have no experience with 4-MMC.
And MDPV was Mweh, you did forget one gem.
bk-MDMA that left the building.

 

[Legitjohn]

I'm from Montreal and before the fentanyl came we would get killer heroin straight from India and China. Like the first time I did a hit I felt as if God had come down and given me a hug. Even the fentanyl is really good quality. I just had a batch that when smoked smelt and tasted exactly like the patches when I used to smoke em.

 

[endlessnameless]

That's my experience of Heroin - this idea that the high is so great - is it bollocks. Any psychedelic pisses all over a Heroin high for euphoria and fun. You can go out walking and see the world anew and a thousand other things. I'd rate coke a better high. Especailly the fucking shit Heroin you get in the UK. I used to take it maybe 2 or 3 times a year. Snort a gram in a week and by the fourth day I was usually thinking - I'm just snorting this so I can get rid of it. Boring as fuck. Just laid there feeling a bit floaty and content. So fucking what? The idea of being addicted to it? If you gave me a kilo of 100% pure heroin I still wouldn't be an addict.

Before 'THE DROUGHT' of 2010, the heroin we were getting in Dublin was white and totally different to the stuff thats around these days. The term China White was used a lot, and if it was or not is irrelevant however this product was mind-blowing. This Afghan #3 'brown' pales so staunchly in comparison that it almost seems like an entirely different different drug. Were it not for the withdrawals being so similar and many a urinalysis flagging for opiates I'd be inclined to say it is, but its not - its just a far weaker, dirtier and all round inferior product.

Also, as regards your comment concerning not being addicted after [using] a kilo of 100% heroin - I'll agree in the sense that were it 100% pure heroin you'd be well dead, however I'll disagree in that if you were to properly mix it down you would without question be addicted both psychologically and physically.

Thats not to say that you couldn't kick the habit. I've never agreed with the ever obtuse opinion that "once an addict, always an addict". I've kicked Heroin many times and for lengthy periods between those times too. My reasoning for going back was the same reason I picked it p to begin with: When my depression hits, so catastrophic is its effect on my life that it renders me incapable of actual speech and at its most starkly darkest of moments - movement. So, I would pick back up smoking it medicinally.

Lots of people say that weed or hash tops off, or makes a big difference to many different kinds of opiate experiences.

I recall a friend of mine sprinkled some into a one skinner of hash and it was magnificent. I described it as 'glorious', with my head titled back in the beer garden where none were the wiser. I think this was actually my very first time smoking it, and with no vomitus involved via that method (that came later when I first smoked it off foil). He had told me some months prior that he had been shooting up for almost two years yet I was completely oblivious which is wild in retrospect as me and this fella were glued at the hip - I mean we hung out about 6 days out of the week if not seven yet I never once saw him score until after I had that first smack sprinkled single skinner. I've tried it in a regular tobacco rollie to no avail; frankly it was a complete waste of both smack and tobacco as it canoed like crazy.