Heroin (ab)users? Are you ever going to stop or are you going to die an addict?

[Thurgood]

First off, to answer the original question at hand in this thread..."No, I will not die an addict" as similar to 'on the road' I am going on a little over a month clean from opiates now (well heroin, probably approaching week 4 on all opiates - can't forget that morphine shot a week into withdrawls that helped oh so much, hehe)...but anyways, I don't have much more to say as I just want to point out that I think Love In Vein did an excellent job responding to many of the points some people tried to make. I'm glad he took the time out to respond in full and completely refute the rediculous statements some users posted. The only thing I have to say to thsoe who haven't experienced addiction first hand...you will never be able to understand what it is fully, read as much as you want, talk to as many addicts as you want, and you still can't begin to imagine how half of living a life as an addict is. I just get pissed off when I see people talking shit about how it's not the drug at all, it's this or that, or that reason, etc.

 

[melissa32]

I never said the drugs had nothing to do with being an addict. I said that you can not use the drugs as the end all reason you can't stop. That is bullshit. There are plenty of people who have stopped, as hard as it have been.
I am well aware that drugs can lead you to do many things that you would not otherwise do, but I will never believe that there is no way out.
go-ee, I do know that drugs can change the chemistry in your brain, they can change the way you experience pain, joy, contentment...and you are right, you will never be the same, but does this mean that you will be forever a slave to your addiction? Sad thought if you ask me.
As for you having friends and a great family, so do lots of other people, they still have issues.
If you never have, great.
By the way, I am not a green-lighter and I don't think for a second that drugs are harmless.
"Love in vein" I have been to rehab programs, but thanks.
As for not understanding what it is like to be an addict, yes, you are right. I have however been loving and living with an opiate addict for twelve years (raising two pretty great kids), so please, I don't think I need to be treated as if I have no clue.
I have been through hell and back with this man, more then once, and if you think for a second that it doesn't damage the family JUST AS MUCH as the addict , then maybe you need to look into your own maturity level.

 

[go-ee]

"Basically I just want to toss in my personal opinion on addiction as a whole. Drugs are no different then anything else, in my opinion. If not put in your body, they don't effect you. People are addicted to sex, work, nearly anything they can enjoy. Whatever makes them feel good. For example, America has a huge overweight problem. Is there a War of Fast Food? I would venture to guess that being overweight and eating bad foods kill more then drugs do, for such a simple pleasure."

I can't even begin to reply to that... It's stupidity amazes me.
There are major differences between drugs and food, so many I'm not going to even bother listing them. How much does a sandwich cost? Do you need 15 sandwiches a month later to get full because your tolerance is so high? Think about what your going to write before you do it people..

For the rest of you guys some good replies and many I can relate to aswell. Keep in there Partykid12 and Thurgood.

To Melissa32:

I was not implying you when I said greenlighters and I think your missing a major element of the addiction process.. that you will never quite understand unless you experience it yourself.

 

[iamtylerdurden]

WOW

With all due respect for overcoming two addictions...
It sounds to me that you (like most addicts) have some other issues going on in your life.
You were addicted to meth and stopped and yet you easily turned on to heroin? You say you knew the risks but did not care...sounds to me like the drugs were an escape from something you did not want to deal with. Hopefully now you have.
I agree with you that drugs change your personality and you end up doing things that you might not otherwise do, but I believe that each person has the ability to make choices no matter how deep they get.
To say the drugs caused all the problems is just an easy way to release yourself from the responsibility of your life.
How can anyone blame you? You are an addict, you have a sickness, thus we should help you and pity you and understand you and forgive all your crap, because, after all, it is the drugs..
BULLSHIT.
Yes, I know addiction, so don't bother trying to say I don't understand.
As for there being a reason drugs are illegal, what are those reasons?
Addiction?
Crap. You can go to a bar anyday of the week and get you alcoholic ass drunk as you like and it is perfectly legal.
Smoke up, get that nicotine deep into those lungs you need to breath...it is okay, within in your rights under the law.
Not to mention that I personally don't need the government telling me what I can or can not put into my body. I don't need the government telling me what is moral and what is a "sin". I can make that choice by myself thank you very much. Not only that, but I will take full responsibility for any ill effects due to the choices I make.
To believe that there are laws against drugs to protect us from ourselves is not only insulting, but it is to believe one of the greatest lies of all time.
There are always going to be people wth addictive personalities, are we going to make all the things that are addictive illegal?
Going to be a long road to protect us if that is the case. A long road.

AMEN
I really could not agree more. Good someone in this thread has sense.

 

[asianfreek]

^
^
^
*applause*

 

[TheTruth]

My grandfather has drank alcohol and smoked daily for over 50 years, he is 80 now and still alive. If someone can do this with alcohol why the fuck can't they do it with opiates? I have a hard time blaming alcohol or tobacco, he's the person that drinks and smokes the shit, how the fuck are you supposed to blame a chemical? It can't fucking talk to you, it can't jump into your body. Sure if you stab yourself the knife is why you die, but you are why the knife is in your body. I think people that blame the drugs are the same people that blame mcdonalds for them being unhealthy. Take some fucking responsiblity for your problems, just cause your drug counselor told you that the drugs ruined your life doesn't make it so and stop taking the easy way out. Admit you fucked up and either fix it, or continue with your "problem".

Your grandfather is one specific example and is not representative of anyone. Mentioning him does not help your argument.

 

[twgburst]

Before I started using, I had it made. Everything was going for me and I had finally accomplished a lot and started making up for the fact that I never went to college and spent a few years right after high school just partying. Then I lost everything.

You lost everything because of you, you knew that you were going to get addicted and you knew that it was going to get expensive to the point that you couldn't afford it. You are not stupid, you can't say you didn't figure this out before you got addicted, you just said fuck it the bad is worth the good and you jumped into addiction, you didn't fall.

And even after losing everything and going through the utterly horrible experience of withdrawals, when things are bad or seem hopeless, my initial reaction is to want to shoot heroin. Because I know that for a few hours all my problems will be gone and I'll feel okay..

Same reason you got addicted.

And despite everything I know, there are just times when my mind goes completely off and it seems perfectly rational and logical to go get some dope and shoot up. I'm so used to it that when I have the cravings I don't think about it in terms of "what are you doing, you can't afford it, you're sticking needles in your arms, you lie to everyone you know, if you do this you could stop caring and just go back to stealing and using every day, you're never going to get your life straight if you don't stop", etc. etc...

I think all addicts get those same feeling and thoughts, that is why quiting drugs is so hard. You love the drug, you want instant gratification and its soo close you can taste it, so you indulge.

It wouldn't be so hard to just quit entirely, but like I said, when the cravings come my rational thinking goes right out the window. It's like being possessed. It seriously feels like there are two mes. There's normal me, then there's the addicted me. And the addicted me doesn't give a fuck about anything and will do whatever it takes to get high.

Then once I'm actually high THEN the rational side of me starts coming back and goes "what the fuck did you just do?"

I'd really like to say I'd never touch the stuff again. But I doubt it.

Addiction sucks and some people will never quit, but you got yourself there and only you can solve the problem. Trying to push the blame on to other factors isn't going to help you, it just makes you feel better about your problem.

 

[twgburst]

I have yet to meet anyone that's said they even came close to being able to foretell exactly how much damage drugs could do.

Bullshit, I think everyone I know that ever got addicted to heroin or had a cocaine problem knew damn well what they were getting into and saw it happen the whole way, they just weighed both sides out and went with the latter.

And it's more than easy to see other people using drugs that seem to have their life together. And in turn, it only seems logical that you can do the same thing.

Alot of the people do start like that, but they realize how much fun drugs are and start using it everyday.

The only knowledge most people have to go on is what they're told about the dangers of drugs by people who have never themselves used them, or everything else there is to know about drugs from people who have used them.[/B]

If you can get the drugs, you probally know people that use them, and if you know people that use them, you probally know some drug addicts.

One thing that ALL recreational drugs do is interfere with your rational decision-making capabilities. And not simply for the time you are under the influence of drugs.

It also overlooks the fact that most people are not even aware they are suffering from the ill-effects of drugs because the changes happen so slowly and gradually. By the time most people notice, it's no longer so simple as to where someone can just say "Uh oh, I'm having problems, I'm just going to never use again!". [/B]

After 1 month of opiate use you know your addicted, and tolerence isn't that slow you do notice that you need more and more and you do realize that all of a sudden your $250 a week job at Arby's is no longer enough to pay for your drug habbit.

Let's hear it for people that don't have immature nihilistic views on life.

All of your bullshit is exactly that, bullshit. It's not based on scientific fact.

Are you even aware that some people are even genetically predisposed to addiction? [/B]

So you blame your grandparents for your addiction too? As for my views being bullshit, well I can admit that I am an addict and it is a struggle to stop using drugs, I love drugs I hate being depressed and drugs are an easy way out. I don't blame the drugs, I blame myself for being weak. I have felt everything I feel now and didn't use drugs at the time and thats how I know I can do it, I just don't like being depressed so I take the easy way out.
I do wish the best for you mas, I think you are a really smart person and I hope you can get over this addiction, I just think that blaming the drug isn't the way to go. It is nothing but an excuse you've made for yourself to use drugs and not feel as guilty about it.

 

[twgburst]

Ah..I knew the greenlighters would rush to protect their precious 'harmless' drugs. No offense to you guys..but I'd rather you not post your useless replies. I do not care about how you can smoke and drink legally. This thread is not about that..and secondly I can tell some of you didn't even read the whole post..err I said I'm not addicted anymore so twigburst what the fuck are you talking about? 'Admit you fucked up and either fix it, or continue with your "problem"'

twigburst
Banned

POSTS: 352
JOINED: Oct 2001
STATUS: Offline

I've posted here longer then you so fuck you. As for what I said, it wasn't directed towards you, it was directed towards addicts in general. I don't think drugs are harmless, I think when people make a conscious decision to use drugs, they shouldn't blame the drugs for their problems. It is like blaming your sons gun for his suicide, sure its how it happened, but it isn't the reason why it happened. You can say well they didn't expect what would happen, well do you think the people that kill themselves expect what is going to happen? Its a risk, you take the risk and fuck up the only fault is your own.

"Basically I just want to toss in my personal opinion on addiction as a whole. Drugs are no different then anything else, in my opinion. If not put in your body, they don't effect you. People are addicted to sex, work, nearly anything they can enjoy. Whatever makes them feel good. For example, America has a huge overweight problem. Is there a War of Fast Food? I would venture to guess that being overweight and eating bad foods kill more then drugs do, for such a simple pleasure."

I can't even begin to reply to that... It's stupidity amazes me.
There are major differences between drugs and food, so many I'm not going to even bother listing them. How much does a sandwich cost? Do you need 15 sandwiches a month later to get full because your tolerance is so high? Think about what your going to write before you do it people..

Well you have a higher chance of dying from AIDS from having unprotected sex then if you use heroin. More people die each year from heart disease caused by eating unhealthy food. For fat people it is harder to lose weight for someone to quit drugs cause everyone needs to eat to live. If they made junk food illegal there would end up being a black market for it, and people would end up spending alot of money for it. If it is such a stupid comment start listing reasons why. If heroin was cheap most heroin addicts would have much less problems, it would be more like cigarettes and alcohol. No more shooting up uncontrolled dope, it would need to be FDA improved, it would be much more healthy. There would be shooting galleries were people could shoot up and learn about how to use heroin more safely. Shit then they could probally make a band that could shoot you with narcan if your heart stops from an overdose. They could reduce the deaths from heroin significantly at the same time destroy the illegal drug market and lower the # of addicts over time by making it so only heroin addicts could get heroin. That sounds like a pretty good idea, but you say its stupid, well lets hear your great idea chief.

TheTruth
"Your grandfather is one specific example and is not representative of anyone. Mentioning him does not help your argument."
I said that if someone can live a long life using drugs just as dangerous (if not more so) then opiates, then why can't they live a long life on opiates. It has happened before, for thousands of years.

 

[Limbic]

"Basically I just want to toss in my personal opinion on addiction as a whole. Drugs are no different then anything else, in my opinion. If not put in your body, they don't effect you. People are addicted to sex, work, nearly anything they can enjoy. Whatever makes them feel good. For example, America has a huge overweight problem. Is there a War of Fast Food? I would venture to guess that being overweight and eating bad foods kill more then drugs do, for such a simple pleasure."

I can't even begin to reply to that... It's stupidity amazes me.
There are major differences between drugs and food, so many I'm not going to even bother listing them. How much does a sandwich cost? Do you need 15 sandwiches a month later to get full because your tolerance is so high? Think about what your going to write before you do it people..

I was using drugs and food as a simple analogy. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. Sandwichs cost more then drugs for me. That however, has nothing to do with what I was trying to infer. My point was, if food were to become an ADDICTION like drugs can be, then yes, you will eventually need to eat 15 sandwichs to become 'full'.

For example, if you keep eating, your stomach will expand and your body will expect the greater intake of food/calories that it is used to even though it might be bad for your body/cardiovascular system, much like drugs.

Please, before labeling my post as stupid, read it again and think about it.

 

[Agnomaly]

Ah..I knew the greenlighters would rush to protect their precious 'harmless' drugs. No offense to you guys..but I'd rather you not post your useless replies.

Okay, That isn't fair, I may be new here and therefore I have a greenlighter status, but just because people are new to this forum does not make them necessarilly ignorant, or new to the drug scene. That is a very closeminded generalization to assume that any greenlighters post is "useless." To be honest I find that offensive.
I personally do not think drugs are not "harmless" at all. They are just like many things: a knife, a car, heavy machinery, etc. They can cause great harm to yourself or other people. It's true you cannot blame addiction on the drugs, just like you can't blame an accident on a car. They are harmful objects that need to be used responsibly. Sure you can say drugs impair your judgement so "I can't help that I couldn't stop"... Than maybe you shouldn't have been doing the drug in the first place. If alcoholism is genetic in your family, maybe it's wise not to drink, just as if you have a hard time seeing, maybe you shouldn't drive. You ultimately have the power over addiction, because unless someone was giving you the drug without you knowing it, the dependency is ultimately your fault.

 

[ebeneezer_geeza]

^^^^
too true. u cannot blame the drugs. Its individual choice or FREE WILL, unfortunately to me its like having a box of chocolates in front of me, i will eat em till they have gone. self-discipline is the main factor (which i lack) and if i have some nice opiate drugs in front of me, i will use till they have gone no matter how large the supply is.

As for studies on genetics-addiction they are not totally proved: eg the study was conducted with twins from alcoholic parents reared apart - other factors like "i was adopted" could be at play here.

nearly everyone who is an addict tries to find some excuse to say why they are that way, when at the end of the day its simple - you chose to be!

 

[Love In Vein]

People are addicted to sex, work, nearly anything they can enjoy.

But those types of addictions do not cause the types of dysfunction associated with drug addiction. Nor do they cause the severe health problems that can be associated with drug addiction.

And while people who are "addicted" to fast food are obviously endangering their health, a McDonald's on the street corner does not have the devastating impact on communities like having a drug dealer on the corner.

I have yet to meet an overweight person that lies, steals, stops caring about school and work and is prone to be abusive behavior because they're addicted to fast food.

 

[Agnomaly]

But those types of addictions do not cause the types of dysfunction associated with drug addiction. Nor do they cause the severe health problems that can be associated with drug addiction.

And while people who are "addicted" to fast food are obviously endangering their health, a McDonald's on the street corner does not have the devastating impact on communities like having a drug dealer on the corner.

I have yet to meet an overweight person that lies, steals, stops caring about school and work and is prone to be abusive behavior because they're addicted to fast food.

Hmm why is that do you think? Could the reason why drug dealers have a devistating impact on communities and that people lie and steal for drugs and not fast food is because drugs are illegal?
And the type of addictions you speak of do cause serious problems. For example: addiction to sex can cause STDs, pregnancy, heartbreak, AIDs... I don't want to have to list everything here. The point is, addiction is bad because it interferes with your life and those around you, whether it be sex, work, food, or otherwise and that you can't keep pointing the finger at drugs. Addiction and irresponsibility, as well as illegalization of substances are what are really causing the problems.

 

[Love In Vein]

I have been through hell and back with this man, more then once, and if you think for a second that it doesn't damage the family JUST AS MUCH as the addict , then maybe you need to look into your own maturity level.

I never said anything that at all implied addiction only hurt the addict.

I'm quite aware of the hell I've put my own family and friends through.

As for not understanding what it is like to be an addict, yes, you are right. I have however been loving and living with an opiate addict for twelve years (raising two pretty great kids), so please, I don't think I need to be treated as if I have no clue.

You were with an opiate addict for TWELVE years.

Then you're insinuating that addiction is more or less of a choice, nobody should tell you what to or to not put in your body and that an addict deserves no sympathy because it's their choice to use.

You need some serious help.

 

[Love In Vein]

My grandfather has drank alcohol and smoked daily for over 50 years, he is 80 now and still alive. If someone can do this with alcohol why the fuck can't they do it with opiates?

You can stay alive for years being addicted to opiates. Most of my heroin dealers have been in their 40's and 50's.

However, they didn't sell drugs for their health or for profit. They sold drugs to afford their habits.

Unless you have some sort of job that pays you an astronomical amount of money, you cannot afford to be a hardcore heroin addict without resorting to crime to support your addiction.

Not to mention you aren't going to be able to work because you will be spending all of your time worrying about getting high, or actually getting high, or being incompacitated.

You also neglected the major differences between how most other drugs and opiates affect your personality.

Most users can get away with being at least semi-functional addicts. Someone who's injecting heroin daily isn't going to be able to do that for years.

 

[twgburst]

I said opiates, not heroin. Heroin addiction is different as street heroin isn't FDA controlled and is more of an expensive addiction vs prescribed opiates. You also seem to agree that alot of the bad that comes from heroin addiction comes from prohibition, yet you believe in prohibition which really doesn't make any sense to me. If heroin was legal, addiction to heroin could be safer then alcohol addiction.

 

[melissa32]

Love in vein...why is it I need serious help?
Because I don't buy into the helplessness?
My Husband was clean for two years and then he started again. Are you implying that he had no choice? That after two years the drugs still had that much of a hold on him?
I don't think so.
I think he made a damn stupid choice. A stupid choice that he made of his own free will.
(By the way, I never said addiction was a choice. Using is a choice, going back after getting clean is a choice. Staying addicted with all the help out there is a choice. Addiction is not a choice, it is a direct result of bad choices.)
Is it that I stay with him that makes you say I am in need of help?
Because I am still with him.
Did your family leave you?
I don't consider that an option at this point in time.
I never said an addict deserves no sympathy, I said they should not be crying out that they are sick, that they can not help it, thus we should pity them.
You can believe it or not, but there are plenty of people out there who make the choice to sop and they do JUST THAT. They do it on their own and they do it simply because they have the ability to. Everyone does, some just deny that.
Yes, my Husband has problems with drugs. He is making the effort to stop. I don't think it is easy. I know it is hard, I have lived through it before, but I don't think that because something is hard it is not possible.
I guess the day I believe that I will have to move on and that will break my heart.

To finish my rambley thought, I think that holding to this whole point of view that an addict is powerless over addiction is very self-defeating and also very convenient.
Just my opinion. If this was meant to be a "poor me post" then I am sorry for upsetting your thought process. In the future let me know and I will be sure to keep my thoughts to myself.

 

[melissa32]

"Not to mention you aren't going to be able to work because you will be spending all of your time worrying about getting high, or actually getting high, or being incompacitated."

Just so you know, he has also never been out of work a day in all the years I have known him.
When we moved back here from Florida he was asked to go back to his old job (with a promotion and considerable raise) and they knew his history.
He takes work very seriously and does an amazing job, no matter how bad (or good!) he feels.
The person he picked up his habit from was also one of the most respected managers in the company. He came in on days off to check on things, made everyone feel important...
they also both have the highest numbers many years in a row at the company.
Imagine that. Heroin addicts...holding jobs. More then holding.
Don't generalize, it doesn't hold up against the facts.

 

[ebeneezer_geeza]

what leads to any addiction is CHOICE. and as for ppl not being able to maintain a smack habit while holding down a job - thats bollocks of course you can. I've had 2 days off in 12 yrs b/c of w/d. We have private doctors here that prescribe pure smack, you cant get to see one unless you have a job, income etc.. there are lots of other ppl i know who use street smack and have jobs. The destruction and maladaptive behaviour that is associated with heroin abuse is mainly due to its high street cost and varying levels of purity.