Bupe Help starting on bupe

[zebedee79]

Hi. So me and my wife are both heroin addicts, been on pharms for 6 years heroin for the last year or so. Had enough of this shit, so we decided to get cleaned up. Tried cold turkey a few times but always stumbled around the 3 day mark or so. We both work so no chance of trying again soon. I scored some subutex (no naloxone), I'd like to try 'officially' but it isn't possible. We're both health care workers, and were told that there was a chance the psychiatrist (thats who prescribes bupe in the UK ) might potentially break confidence as we in theory have access to hard opiates. Although this is possible, we'd lose are jobs straight away as anything stronger than codeine is heavily controlled and codeine wouldn't touch the sides these days (I WISH it would).


So with fear of losing our jobs, income and eventually our home we're going to have to go it alone. Sunday was the day, so we finished our last heroin at 11.30pm on Saturday night, by 3pm on Sunday it felt like we were in moderate withdrawal so took 4mg of bupe. Well fuck me I've never experienced anything like it in my life, and my wife was just as bad. The most intense withdrawal I've ever felt. Severe puking (to the point where we could even sip water) diarrhoea and just generally rolling around in pain. It was worse than it sounds, but I guess you have to experience precipitated withdrawal to understand. Anyway I had someone deliver some H to me, it didn't do shit until about 7 am the next day, then we finally got aome relief.


I assume the mistake made was taking the sub to early? I'd done some reading and some people definitely said 12 hours was enough? I've only got limited subs, so the next time I really need them to work. Should I wait 24 hours?


Also once on the subs, we're planning a medium taper. Want to stabilise on an appropriate dose for maybe two weeks and then taper down. We've considered a quick taper, but using heroin is such a big part of our lives we feel we need a couple of weeks to get the daily ritual/lifestyle out of iur heads before jumping off. Also planning on going to NA meetings as by doing it ourselves we're missing out on the counselling etc. How does this sound, any help or advice would be very much appreciated. We're in so much debt we're close to losing everything, plus our health is getting more fucked every day. Thank you so much in advance.

 

[Mad Dash]

You have everything planned nearly perfect... except for your research phase... I am so sorry to hear about the PW. The rule of thumb is to wait minimum 24 hours, but realistically you want to already be in WD before you start the subutex. The bupe has such a high affinity for the receptors it literally bullies its way in and hulk smashes everything else out, putting you into nasty PWD.

But your plan of action sounds legit. I am not a fan of rapid tapers for exactly the reason you stated. They do not give the user time to habituate to the knew life and learn how to live without opiates before making the jump off. Most addictionologists advise 1 to 2 years, but you are seeing people go on maintenance more and more these days because of how effective it is without making high like methadone does (both of them I guess are trading one addiction for another but bupe is certainly less so because there is no real high after being on it for a week). And going to meetings in this time (and usually for the rest of your life [at least the first couple years]) is critical. I go to AA even though I was an opiate addict mainly and an alcoholic second because there is usually a lot more sobriety in the room. I find that there are a lot of people looking for hook ups at NA and a lot of people there that are court ordered. AA usually keeps stricter guidelines because of how readily available alcohol is. It is everywhere so I feel like AA helps me a lot more.

Get a sponsor! Get a temporary sponsor on day 1! And continue going to meeting until you and your wife find sponsors that fit your personalities. In AA/NA you can not have a sponsor that is of opposite sex (so you wont both be able to have the same sponsor) it is for everyone's best interest that does not happen. You do not want a devious person taking advantage of a person in a already vulnerable state. That is why there are meetings for strictly gays as well, they have different rules for sponsors/sponsees.

It is not easy, but it can be done. I have all the faith in the world, stay safe, stay strong, and go to meetings, even if you relapse go the very next day and get a new white chip. Be honest, because none of this works if you keep lying to yourself or others. Good luck, and if you need anything please let me know, I have been through all of it, and I still go to AA weekly.

 

[zebedee79]

Thanks man, appreciate the response. The PW freaked the shit out of me, but I'm gonna keep trying. On the weekend I'll start fresh, give myself a minimum 24 hours of withdrawal. I'm nervous about going to NA/AA I'm no good at talking about myself, but I can see getting off this shit isn't going to be easy, and I'm gonna need all the help I can get. I can't believe I let things get this far, not long ago I honestly thought I could quit with a minium of fuss and a couple of days of discomfort. I guess lying to yourself is all just part of the addiction. Thanks again, me and my wife are secret addicts, none of our friends or family know. It's good to have a bit of support from people who know what they're talking about.

Cheers

 

[Mad Dash]

That is spot on, it takes over your life before you know what happens. But my suggestion with AA/NA is just take your time you don't have to do anything your first day other than sit there. Or hell for your first couple weeks. Whatever makes you feel comfortable. But when you finally do share, the floodgates seem to open, and sometimes so do the tears. Just be prepared. But it is very cathartic once you get it all off your chest.

 

[weR138]

I don't have much to add other than try to practice healthy eating habits and exercise, looking in the mirror and seeing progress is a huge reward for me wich in turn helps me stay motivated to reach my goals. Also wanted to say good luck and stay strong you can do this my friend. If you have questions or just want to post your progress don't hesitate you will get many great replies and a ton of support from the BL community.

 

[zebedee79]

Thanks alot man, that's good advice. Seeing and feeling improvements to my life, no matter how small is going to go along way in helping keep away from this stuff. Thanks again, I really appreciate the support.

 

[BlowingClouds]

Hello, good luck to you, I have been through it all.. And one thing I suggest importantly are fish oils! They had help me tones in every aspect and every drug recovery and withdrawals. Meth, h, pot you name it fish oil helped a lot. It works absolutely wonders for depression and anxiety, brain function ( makes you think clearly and stuff, pretty much helps the brain fogs grogginess and stuff especially when your in paws), helps you skin look good and gives it a somewhat glow to it and I have had many compliments while I was on it. Helps blood flow and heart rate to a normal flow and there's so much. I really swear by it and highly recommend it, and it's natural and makes you feel natural as if you've never done drugs.. Forget multi vitamins they're nothing at least imo.

Anyways good luck I hope for the best for you and your partner. Please do keep us updated.

 

[Runtoparadise]

Good luck to you & your partner.

Normally I'd agree with mad dash, but you're not trading one addiction for another!

You're choosing sobriety. With maintenance. In doing such you both have a greater chance of long term sobriety.

Well done,

Hope it works well for you both, best wishes,

Rtp

 

[zebedee79]

Its about 7.30pm (GMT) about 12 hours since our last dose of H. So gotta avoid making the mistake of taking the sub too early again (precipitated withdrawal was awful) so gonna try and wait at least another 12 hours, got some gabapentin so hopefully that will help, maybe even get a few hours sleep. Watching comedy's on tv is actually helping keep my mind of it for now, but the worst withdrawals haven't started yet.

 

[Mad Dash]

Good luck to you & your partner.

Normally I'd agree with mad dash, but you're not trading one addiction for another!

You're choosing sobriety. With maintenance. In doing such you both have a greater chance of long term sobriety.

Well done,

Hope it works well for you both, best wishes,

Rtp

Definitely not my opinion, just something 99% of the rest of the world says. That is why I put it in parenthesis. Always good to be prepared for that.

 

[Mad Dash]

this is my first time posting, I've been an addict since I was 15 and I'm now 28, I've been to rehab twice and on methadone program for few years, in 2010 I detoxed from methadone and within a month got hit by school bus and fractured my back. Now 5 years later I'm still in cycle of pain pills. Never inject and go back and forth between oral use and snorting, I'll take what I can find but usually it's oxycodone 30s and methadone 10mg. My question is I got my hands on 6 8mg strip of subs and I want to get myself off pills everyday. I stopped taking any methadone yesterday at 5am, I'm still using the roxys cus I find myself in pain only few short hours after last use. So I'm wondering how do I start taking the subs without having to have too much pain due to my disability in back. Hope someone can give me advice before I do wrong thing..
Thank you

This is really a tough one. The problem being that you are in pain (you literally got thrown under a fucking bus) but that methadone stays in your system for a very long time. I have seen people take a 3 day break from methadone and be fine. Then I have seen people get off methadone to switch to subs and still put themselves into PW 2 weeks later. So this is going to depend on a lot of factors in your life. Such as how long you have been taking the methadone, what strength of doses you have been on, and you body (ie: amount of body fat, height, gender). Obviously if you have been on it for a long time, been taking higher doses, and if you have a larger than usual belly.

I would recommend stopping the methadone for 2 to 3 weeks just in case, while continuing to take the oxy for the pain (you may have to up the dose). Then I would take a 24 hour break from all opiates after that and then when you are in full WD you can take the sub. Start low with the sub doses (2 mg) and work your way up until you don't feel like you are in WD anymore. If it works at 2 mg then don't take more. You don't want to end up getting acclimated to a dose higher than you need because then you will have to come off more.

Good luck, stay safe, and if you need anything please don't hesitate to PM me.

 

[Mad Dash]

this is my first time posting, I've been an addict since I was 15 and I'm now 28, I've been to rehab twice and on methadone program for few years, in 2010 I detoxed from methadone and within a month got hit by school bus and fractured my back. Now 5 years later I'm still in cycle of pain pills. Never inject and go back and forth between oral use and snorting, I'll take what I can find but usually it's oxycodone 30s and methadone 10mg. My question is I got my hands on 6 8mg strip of subs and I want to get myself off pills everyday. I stopped taking any methadone yesterday at 5am, I'm still using the roxys cus I find myself in pain only few short hours after last use. So I'm wondering how do I start taking the subs without having to have too much pain due to my disability in back. Hope someone can give me advice before I do wrong thing..
Thank you

uhmmm... Did you accidentally post this twice? Because I just answered your post...

 

[Mad Dash]

Oh and since u said it matterer, I'm a 28yr old female, I haven't taken anymore then 10mg total of methadone a day for last month (been planning to use the subs so thought staying on a very low dose would help) and I only weigh 102lbs and I'm 5 ft 3 so have a good metabolism. Sorry for blowing up the feed. I just have bad anxiety and appreciate getting the advice.

Alright this is actually good info and should help a lot. Based on your body size, gender, age, and dose I think it is easy to say you wont be a 3 week WD. So I am going to assume you will have roughly 3 days to get the methadone out of your system (remember the best I can do is guess) so I would take the oxy very sparingly try to make it last for the full 3 days. Then when you are done wait until you are in full WD (min 24 hours) and then take the subs. Remember these are all guesses I don't want you to go into PWs and be like "that son of a bitch MD!" because with these things it is really hard to know for sure. But based off of everything you gave me this is my educated guess. I hope we can get some more members in here that can help even more and we can get an average of everyone's answers and you can pick from what you think is best for you. Just whatever you do do not take any more methadone.

 

[Mad Dash]

I am saying a couple prayers for you. If you have any sober friends that you love and trust very much, having them over to help watch you during you WD and to help ensure you don't relapse. Get some lope maybe some benzos or anything else you can think of that will comfort you will you come down. Good luck and stay safe!