So I've maintained about a gram a day habit for 6 or so months. I can go one day without w/d but the second day is hell. About 3 months ago I went through w/d while on vacation and I only felt really shitty for about 3-4 days, by the time I left on the 5th day I was fine. I only have access to suboxone and more h right now, anyone have any advice on how to taper down so I can finally not be opiat dependent? Thanks in advance.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Help me taper off heroin!
- Thread starter DIRTYMAN
- Start date
What is your route of administration, how are you taking the heroin? I'm guessing you aren't shooting if you can make it 24 hours without getting sick; either that or you haven't been doing it too long.
Just fyi there are lots and lots of threads on tapering- using OTC meds as well as others that use other drugs (non-OTC). Do you think you are really going to be able to taper? I'm not questioning you, just asking if you think you can do it. Have you read anything about Sub? Are you aware of how it works at all?
Give some more info, and it will be easier to answer some of your questions!
Just fyi there are lots and lots of threads on tapering- using OTC meds as well as others that use other drugs (non-OTC). Do you think you are really going to be able to taper? I'm not questioning you, just asking if you think you can do it. Have you read anything about Sub? Are you aware of how it works at all?
Give some more info, and it will be easier to answer some of your questions!
billywitchdoc.com
Bluelighter
check out methadone
^I do not agree at all. Getting on methadone for a 6 month habit is really kinda ridiculous. Buprenorphine should be enough to help you detox . You should try to cut down on your use decreasing a little bit a day and then hop on suboxone. Find a stable dose that holds you for 24 hours then drop a little every 2-3 days.
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hfrs said:
I'm smoking black tar since about 6 months ago. I've been able to taper from about 6 balloons weighing from .1-.3g to using just one, then I'll stop for two days and celebrate by using my normal amount. It sucks cuz I don't even get high anymore, I just get to normal.
I've read all the threads involving loperamide, clonidine, benzos, etc, I was wondering if anyone had any personal experience and suggestions involving tapering down my heroin use and using suboxone. Again, I don't have access to anything not OTC except for suboxone and heroin. Loperamide seems to do nothing during my severe days of wd'ing.
I've also read a lot about suboxone, including that you w/d off of it. I'm thinking of just taking it during 2-3 day w/ds since I can take the first two days, and the last two are a lot more manageable.
^Yes, if you want to go with the sub for your detox. You need to make sure you wait until you are sick though before you take the first dose. If you goal is to get off totally, I would use the sub and avoid the heroin, it is too easy to celebrate your "accomplishments" when you have heroin around!
With the sub, wait until you are sick, then start with 2 mg. Give that 1 - 2 hours to work (some people only wait a half hour- which is ok to do if you are still really uncomfortable after your first 2 mg. If you're still pretty ill after 2, go ahead and take another 2; if it's not too bad, cut it in half.
The thing with sub is the lower the dose, the easier it will be to come off of, and the more pleasant the effects are. You don't have a crazy monstrous tolerance from what you describe, but it's hard to tell - I don't have a clue how pure your stuff is!
With the sub, wait until you are sick, then start with 2 mg. Give that 1 - 2 hours to work (some people only wait a half hour- which is ok to do if you are still really uncomfortable after your first 2 mg. If you're still pretty ill after 2, go ahead and take another 2; if it's not too bad, cut it in half.
The thing with sub is the lower the dose, the easier it will be to come off of, and the more pleasant the effects are. You don't have a crazy monstrous tolerance from what you describe, but it's hard to tell - I don't have a clue how pure your stuff is!
Thanks a lot everyone for your help.
I just picked up 4 8mg subbies and am getting rid of my small stash (less than a balloon). Thanks hfrs for the dosage schedule, it's immensely helpful. I plan on using the sub at a steady 2 mg for 2-3 days then just going cold turkey. As I understand there'll still be a little comedown but far more manageable than what I'm going through right now.
As for the purity, it's black tar
pretty shitty in most people's opinions. I used to get really good brown crumbly stuff that you could snort, but now all I get is some fishy smelling all black shit. I doubt it's very pure at all.
I just picked up 4 8mg subbies and am getting rid of my small stash (less than a balloon). Thanks hfrs for the dosage schedule, it's immensely helpful. I plan on using the sub at a steady 2 mg for 2-3 days then just going cold turkey. As I understand there'll still be a little comedown but far more manageable than what I'm going through right now.
As for the purity, it's black tar
pretty shitty in most people's opinions. I used to get really good brown crumbly stuff that you could snort, but now all I get is some fishy smelling all black shit. I doubt it's very pure at all.
PIC
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2005
- Messages
- 669
Well definetely go with Bupe but here is a taper schedule I have seen on a scientific article: first day take half of what you usually use tehn every two days drop the dose by 1/4 and cold turkey when you are down to a dose equal to 30mgs of Morphine (I would definetely keep on tapering after reaching a tolerance of 30mgs of Morphine.) Good luck.
Newbierock
Bluelighter
I Don't mean to be rude but, stop being such a pussy.
Your the one who decided to do smack in the first place, so deal with the withfuckingdrawal. Using drugs to come off other drugs is not a good thing to do, shit your not even IV'ing it. Just take a few days off work and stay home and smoke pot and chill out and get it over with.
Your the one who decided to do smack in the first place, so deal with the withfuckingdrawal. Using drugs to come off other drugs is not a good thing to do, shit your not even IV'ing it. Just take a few days off work and stay home and smoke pot and chill out and get it over with.
Newbierock said:
I don't agree with this at all. Sure, some people have fantastic results from cold-turkey. But if you have decided that it is not the way for you (and it is a personal choice), then it's probably the worst way to do it. I mean, if your heart is not in it, then the only thing cold-turkey will do is help you decide to get straight back on the gear around day 2 when the w/d's start getting really bad, and you're then back to square one (unless you have more than your usual dose and actually go backwards)
Some advice about the Bupe: when you get to around 2mg per day, start stretching out the time between doses. Bupe can have a really long half-life (more than 24 hours), which means that when you go from (for example) 8 to 4 to 2 to 1 mg very quickly, you might think that you are handling the 1mg dose well, and then 2 days later you'll be in w/d, not much different from just taking 8 two days in a row and then stopping suddenly.
I guess what I'm saying, is that if you are going to do a *quick* taper, then stretch the doses out as long as you can... because if you have 8mg one day, and are still feeling fine when you have 4mg the next day, you won't really be doing anything much to lower your tolerance until the 3rd or 4th day when your body will start saying to you "why arent you giving me 8mg anymore?" (it won't have realised you've dropped the dose till a day or two later).
So take as little bupe as you need to get by, and don't take it till you need it - your plan isnt to "maintain" yourself on bupe, only to use it to *ease* (not remove) the withdrawals.
That being said, it sounds like your plan is something similar to this advice anyway - you seem pretty headstrong about how you will approach this, which gives me the confidence that you will succeed.
Newbierock said:
You're not being rude, you're being a total prick. Like the other guy said, some people can do cold turkey and others can't, so either help or shut the fuck up.
SmokeEm: That was the plan. Since I don't have too much of a habit I'm going to be using 2mg every time I get the pins and needles, which is usually my first sign things are getting bad. After that I'm just gonna go cold turkey off the bupe, I expect it won't be nearly as bad as h.
DIRTYMAN said:
IMO, you should suffer the pins & needles and put up with them for a few hours before dosing. As I said, you don't want to "maintain", you want to w/d. If you want to get off, you need to w/d, otherwise it wont happen. But the w/d doesnt have to be bad - pins & needles are hardly the worst part. Cold-turkey bupe wont be as bad as H *provided* you aren't using equivalent dosage. If you take the same amount of Bupe that maintains you (keeps you as w/d free as your H does), then it's likely the w/d wont be any less worse than cold-turkey H. As I said before, I'm pretty sure you have the right idea, but just keep that in mind - to be successful, you *need* to w/d, just that the w/d doesnt have to be that bad...
I'm sure you're not one of these people, but so many people get the wrong idea that if they take bupe for 5 days then they will have gotten past the H w/ds and with only 5 days on Bupe, wont be addicted and therefore it will be pain free. You need to remember that it's *opiates* you are addicted to, not H, thus even after 5 days on Bupe, unless you suffer a *little bit*, you're going to end up with the same withdrawals.
Oh, and good luck man. I'm coming off a Bupe maint program at the moment. Slowly, slowly (a milligram or two less per week), and it is going pretty good for me. Some minor discomfort, but nothing I would put in the "pain" category. I have some extra bupe there I could take if I wanted to be more comfortable, but I know if I do, I won't end up coming off it.
DIRTYMAN said:
Looks like I wrote my last two posts before I read this. Re-read my 2nd last post (i.e not the one prior to this one, but the one before) - it is important to note that by taking Bupe for 3-4 days you will *not* get out with no withdrawals. You *must* be feeling at least a little bit of discomfort or you'll still suffer the entire amount of withdrawal when you stop Bupe.
Yes, you can minimise withdrawals by only taking bupe for 3-4 days, but I'd recommend around 5 days, and remember (cant stress this enough) that you need to be feeling a little discomfort. It *is* possible to do it with nearly zero discomfort, but for that you'd be looking at 2 to 4 weeks for the taper, not 3-4 days.
Matt_Himself
Bluelighter
Newbierock said:
Im not going to point out how obnoxious this post is, someone already did that.
Im also not going to point out the irony of saying dont use drugs to get off drugs, just smoke pot. People who use drugs and still argue marijuana is not a drug leave me baffled. Pot smokers who adhere to this mentality need to get over themselves and realize they too are drug users.
I will say though, not all of us are as lucky as you to be able to just take days off work. That wasnt an option for me, and Im guessing most people here cant just call out of work and other obligations. Buprenorphine is a great resource for those who want to be able to still continue a normal life. Going through withdrawal sucked, but I was able to stay under everybodies radar.
And yes, he did choose to use smack in the first place, but I doubt he did it one day thinking how much fun being addicted to opiates is. Most people cant understand unless they have been there themselves. Give the guy a break. Hes not bitching about how we fucked his life up, he is asking for help, and last I checked, thats what places like this are for.
chorus_of_devils
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 69
How the did it in Rehab...
Here is how they did it in the treatment center I went to (Azure Acres in N. Cali.) They used Suboxone 2mg sublingual and treated all Opiate w/d the same. I was there for Oxy, but there were plenty there for H.
OK the first thing is you have to start w/d symptoms. So when you are sweating, your nose is running, anxiety etc. Try to go 36 hours from the last time you took H.
Start the suboxone. here is their schedule;
Day 1 & 2 @7am 4 suboxone, 2pm 2 suboxone and 9:30pm 4 sub-x
Day 3 & 4 @ 7am 3 sub-x, 2pm 2 sub-x, 9:30 3 sub-x
Day 5 & 6 @ 7am 2 subs, at 2pm 2 sub & 9:30pm 2 subs
Day 7 & 8 @ 7 am 2 sub, 2pm 1 sub, 9:30pm 2 subs
day 9 & 10 @ 7am 2 sub, 2pm 1 sub, 9:30pm 1 sub
day 11 & 12 1 suboxone at 7am, 2pm, & 9:30pm
day 13 & 14 @ 7am 1 suboxone and 9:30pm 1 suboxone
day 15 1 suboxone @ 9:30pm
If for some reason you are still having bad w/d symptoms after day 16 then you con repeat days 11-15 but drop down by halves.
Asta COD
Here is how they did it in the treatment center I went to (Azure Acres in N. Cali.) They used Suboxone 2mg sublingual and treated all Opiate w/d the same. I was there for Oxy, but there were plenty there for H.
OK the first thing is you have to start w/d symptoms. So when you are sweating, your nose is running, anxiety etc. Try to go 36 hours from the last time you took H.
Start the suboxone. here is their schedule;
Day 1 & 2 @7am 4 suboxone, 2pm 2 suboxone and 9:30pm 4 sub-x
Day 3 & 4 @ 7am 3 sub-x, 2pm 2 sub-x, 9:30 3 sub-x
Day 5 & 6 @ 7am 2 subs, at 2pm 2 sub & 9:30pm 2 subs
Day 7 & 8 @ 7 am 2 sub, 2pm 1 sub, 9:30pm 2 subs
day 9 & 10 @ 7am 2 sub, 2pm 1 sub, 9:30pm 1 sub
day 11 & 12 1 suboxone at 7am, 2pm, & 9:30pm
day 13 & 14 @ 7am 1 suboxone and 9:30pm 1 suboxone
day 15 1 suboxone @ 9:30pm
If for some reason you are still having bad w/d symptoms after day 16 then you con repeat days 11-15 but drop down by halves.
Asta COD