Help don't want relapse, PAWS is my prob

[Mafioso]

I've been taught that PAW symptoms can last up to 2 years depending on severity of use, age that one began using, and health and habits of individual once use has stopped.

Just to clarify to anyone who doesn't know, the initial withdrawal symptoms are called acute withdrawal and for opiate withdrawal would include things like diarrhea, insomnia, irritability, nightmares, and things that are commonly considered withdrawal. Post acute withdrawal is the period of time after the initial withdrawal symptoms have passed, although may include some of the same symptoms but are generally not as severe. Common symptoms of PAW are things like clumsiness, depression, feeling like its hard to think clearly, and what not. Acute withdrawal is basically detoxing from the drug, post-acute withdrawal is the process of your brain and body healing from the damage caused by the drug.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Not necessarily damage. It more just the brain/body adjusting back to a prolonged stayed with external inputs of drugs.

PAWS with longer term benzo use can last more than two years from what I have read. Knowing how hard it can be to get off a sustained serious benzo habit always was enough to prevent me from getting to into them. I know how difficult opioid withdrawal can be, and that is enough shittiness for me (knock on wood).

 

[Mafioso]

Maybe not damage the entire time, but to put it simply I'd say rewiring the brain. Typically there is a decent amount of harm caused by drug use, whether it just be bad habits, I would say they are caused by drug use if brought on by drug use. It can take years for the body/brain to function "normally" again, sometimes it may never fully recover. Some damage to the body or brain may never recover but we can become healthier than when we were actively using.

IME, benzo withdrawal is pretty fucking terrible and comparatively worse than opiate WDs. I've had a seizure and 2 psychotic episodes from coming off benzos as well as a handful of other drugs at the same time. I was taking up to 20mg of Xanax in a day on top of other benzos, opiates, weed, coke and amphetamines.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The whole neuroplasticity thesis is pretty cool. It is amazing how resilient our brains and bodies are, if only we give them the chance they will take care of the rest

 

[Mafioso]

Agreed.

 

[Birdy-Num-Num]

Thoothpaste et all,

really useful stuff and I agree about the post 3 month recovery of neurons, but that is the start and also think it can be up yo a year where body and mind begin to fully recover assuming you do all the right things.

i did Iboga flood for opiate use. Really pisses me off when it is said your brain is completely reset to pre-drug state since this can be misleading. Iboga does not magically cure your various receptors sites but instead it removes w/d by sudden impact on Opiode receptors. 10 f'cking yrs of use, can not reset you and your body and mind and spirit over night. Hence many relapse after 2 to 3 months.

ps 1 am 6 weeks post flood. Energy and tiredness are my biggest concerns that can cause stress so trying to find decent alternatives and found Microdosing helps as well as a spectrum of healthy diets and meditation.


Best east wishes Birdy

 

[Jabberwocky]

Oh I actually would totally agree. There is soooooo much individual variation based on the substance being used, the character of the habit, ones own physiological predispositions and environmental influences all anyone can do with this stuff is give general guidelines.

There are no magic potions in this stuff, anyone looking for a panecea (as much of the treatment is presented as in the recovery industry) is going to be sorely disappointed. Although it’s more with severe instances, it can take years to adjust to life without ones DOC(s) (such as with people with moderate to severe gabaergic substance use disorder, that can take a very long time to recover from). Most it probably won’t take that long, and unless one gets out of the game rather early in their substance use I think 3 months is only the beginning.

It is important to stay away from making sweeping generalizations, so I appriciate your point clarifying this. Iboga and NMDA antagonists can definitely speed up recovery time IME, but they are far from a magical cure (at the time it can feel like it, and by comparison to some more barbaric treatments they rightfully are, but when the drugs are removed it’s sort of like everyone for themselves). I could say the same of any treatment. Recovery requires an inherently multidimensional approach for one to find success IMO.

 

[irwinr89]

Well bumping my own thread, yes I did relapse like a total idiot thinking I could control it....is not possible, this dam opiods almost trick you into thinking that is going to be OK and you can control yourself.... BS, I can't, once u take it I don't know I get this feeling that taking more is OK, it really pulls a trick on you.

Thing is I never ever been addicted to a single dam thing, not cigs , not caffeine, not alcohol, nothing.... But here comes this pain med crap and is all out the window, wtf?
I am day 3 clean now, but unlike ever before, am angry as hell now, so much that I can barely feel any withdrawal symptoms, am angry like I ever been, and I took steps to stop the supply.
But I want to know about this addiction crap, am an engineer, I have to know why does this happen to me, how does it work in N out, am determined to it.... I should be exhausted in bed from wd now but am angry at this crap, and I want to know the real science behind it, what makes it tick, there has to be a way and it can't be just bupe or another opiod in disguise.

I know it deals with dumping feel good dopamine in you, but what causes the craving and addiction is some but not others?? Something is missing from the puzzle

 

[MrRoot]

Have you thought about opiate replacement therapy?

For me it helped wonders for PAWS after tapering out of heavy oxycodone use. I was on Suboxone for a year and had to switch back to oxycodone for pain management until I managed to lose weight and go to gym for months and after that the pain was gone and I rapidly tapered out of oxycodone and had minimal WDs and haven’t had any PAWS atleast yet after over two weeks of abstinence.