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Heirarchy of LSD

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>>oh, and mindsurfer, mind your own biz. nobody was talking to you, and it's very impolite to butt in like an asshole

So sorry, but I did post to this thread before you did. I could go on, but I'm sure other BL readers can draw their own conclusions.
 
... or maybe not. ecstacy-non-stop has edited his earlier post to substitute "Bear" with "major LSD chemist".

However, he hasn't yet edited his post 02-05-2005 03:57, where he also refers to "Bear".
 
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So food is hydrolysed in the body, not metabolized?

And to think I've been wrong all those years I was a biology teacher - naughty fastandbulbous (slaps own wrist)

Mindsurfer - it's still wrong, it should read major LSD chemists (they are plural!)
 
haha.. ahh.. *sigh*.

I was just thinking from when eCsTaSy NoN sToP said "nonononono" that it was a foolish mistake to step to the squid (as in dough-eating) on the sciencizzle.

How entertaining... and all from a simple mis-reading of Shulgin.

I hope you have learned something from this thread, eCsTaSy NoN sToP.
 
mind your own biz. nobody was talking to you, and it's very impolite to butt in like an asshole
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FYI this is an open forum and an open discussion. Anyone is allowed to join in if they want and there's nothing impolite about it. If you wanted to have a private conversation with someone you should do it over PM. ;)
 
just as a simple aside, anyone who's ever read the stuff he's written or had the 'pleasure' of talking to him can probably attest to the fact that bear isn't exactly the most accurate source of information.

:)
 
whatever, i'm stoned as hell all the time and bear and scully and sand were all LSD chemists, so if i forgot to add the chemist to the other part, oh well... and no, i didn't learn anything.. most of the stuff about LSD is simple regurgitation from the shroomery posts...
and so mr. self-proclaimed biology teacher, you care to tell me through what process ATP gets broken down when the body needs energy? hmm.. hard to think, hard to think... hmm, hmm, what process does the liver use to break down toxic chemicals, mr bio teacher? care to tell us how cAMP (cyclic Adenosine-3, 5-monophosphate) is formed in the body? i'll leave you to your guesses, but here's a hint.. it's a function of the human body!
 
michael said:
just as a simple aside, anyone who's ever read the stuff he's written or had the 'pleasure' of talking to him can probably attest to the fact that bear isn't exactly the most accurate source of information.

:)
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I've never spoken to him but read some interviews. Either way I can't imagine a reason why Owsley wouldn't be one of the better sources of legitimate LSD-info. Care to elaborate?
 
he has particular interpretations of things/people/events and he considers them the absolute truth; whether or not they are actually grounded in any sort of reality are another question entirely.
 
whatever, i'm stoned as hell all the time... and no, i didn't learn anything
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The ability to admit being incorrect in the face of facts is an important part of learning, so the above statement doesn't really come as a surprise. Had you said 'yeah mindsurfer, I was wrong in saying it was Owsley' I'd be a lot more inclined towards you, but the fact that you went back and altered your previous post without acknowledging your factual error, does scream the arrogance of a person pathologically unable to admit they could ever be wrong. With an attitude such as that, learning is nigh on impossible
 
what the hell are you talking about? i did admit i was wrong. and if i'm so high that i mistakenly wrote Bear instead of Scully or something like that, at least i'm not making such an enormous mistake, just the wrong first name the general idea is "a LSD chemist". unlike some of your claims, which make science stand on its head,
When it hydrolyses in the body it's called metabolism, when it occurs outside the body, it's called hydrolysis.

If you could be charged with the body causing the drug to come into existence, we'd all be guilty for endogenous synthesis of DMT.
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admit it, the body IS a hydrolytic instrument and the body is capable and makes use of hydrolysis and so on and so forth. when it happens in the body (ie: ingest ALD-52 and it hydrolizes to LSD-25) it's STILL called hydrolysis. and no, nobody will be charged with endogenous synthesis of DMT because the point in question with LSD-25 and ALD-52 was that people were choosing to ingest something. should the endogenous synthesis of DMT be prosecuted, every single person on this planet would be found guilty and so we'd all go to jail. who would run the jail system then? who would lead the countries? who would preside over the cases? who would arrest all the guilty people? huh? don't state something THAT stupid... people have been around for longer than you, and such a thing has been taken into consideration before.

once again, i'll repeat myself for ya,
most of the stuff about LSD is simple regurgitation from the shroomery posts...
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and so no, i did NOT learn anything new... if you care to read posts from YEARS ago on the shroomery boards, you'll find this same exact info about the diff. LSD grades, chemists and so on and so forth...
to touch on something you said, "The ability to admit being incorrect in the face of facts is an important part of learning, so the above statement doesn't really come as a surprise. With an attitude such as that, learning is nigh on impossible" would probably be the most educated statement you've made so far, although i find it hilarious that you can find other's faults so quick and not even admit to your own. You speak of me in a certain manner but can't even see that you're that same exact person.
 
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Jeez... fnb never said that hydrolysis doesn't take place in the human body. He said enzyme mediated hydrolysis takes place as part of metabolizm.

He was just pointing out your error, that because shulgin said that the LSD "hydrolysis easily" he didn't neccessarily mean in the body, but just in general.

Your grasp of the reasoning behind drug laws is pretty shaky too. Yes, of course people arn't locked up for having endogenous DMT - this is also why people arn't arrested for eating something that turns into LSD in the body, or codeine that's metabolized to morphine. You've just offered a useful argument as to why the case in the ALD/LSD couldn't have hinged on the ingestion - because if that was a precedent, we'd have to start worrying about endogenous drugs and metabolization products. The fact that in the quote you give "and, of course, on intake" is in parentheses should give you a clue that it wasn't the major thrust of the argument.
The difference isn't that in one case a person chooses to ingest a substance, the difference is that in one case the substance easily transforms into an illegal one just by sitting around..
 
I can think of plenty of cases where I was incorrect, but I didn't resort to the 'I'm so high I don't know what I'm doing excuse', I just say something along the lines of 'oops, didn't realize that'. Also, thanks to specialspack for going to explain the jist of what I was saying.

Without wanting to sound like an old fart, I've been fascinated by psychedelics ever since being at uni, and in quarter of a century since then I've had plenty of oppertunities to learn how to gracefully accept when I'm wrong (and quite a few to prove it!). I don't know why you're insisting in turning it into an 'ego thing'.
 
I never said I'm so high I don't know what I'm doing. I said I was so high I mistakenly wrote Bear instead of Scully.

my grasp of drug laws isn't shaky at all. people DO get arrested for eating something that turns into LSD or morphine... you need to start living in the real world where cops and the justice system do what they want, and it's not necessarily constitutionally by the letter. they don't exactly give a fuck, don't you get it? People do get busted for taking Tylenol #3 or 4 or whichever one the one with codeine is all the time. You don't get arrested for endogenous synthesis of DMT because you have no choice over that. It happens wether or not you like it. However, when someone shoves a pill or a tab into their mouth, they CHOOSE to ingest such a thing. People who chose to ingest ALD-52 believed it to be LSD-25 and/or were looking for "the acid high", so the bottom line is that they CHOSE to break the law. Once again, there is a GIGANTIC difference between choosing to ingest a substance and your body performing one of its DNA-encoded functions without you having a choice about it.

and a little aside, Shulgin also said that the body is a hydrolytic instrument, specialspack, but you fail to mention that. here's Shulgin's ENTIRE quote, once again:
If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular
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However, when someone shoves a pill or a tab into their mouth, they CHOOSE to ingest such a thing. People who chose to ingest ALD-52 believed it to be LSD-25 and/or were looking for "the acid high", so the bottom line is that they CHOSE to break the law
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And people ingesting codeine, looking to get high produce morphine, but if they get caught in possession of codeine, they're not charged with an offence concerning morphine are they? And codeine doesn't occur naturally in the body.

and a little aside, Shulgin also said that the body is a hydrolytic instrument, specialspack, but you fail to mention that. here's Shulgin's ENTIRE quote, once again:
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Shulgin is a chemist, so his natural inclination is to refer to any splitting due to water as hydrolysis. Physiologists would (do) see it differently. He's a bloody good organic chemist, but he's already been wrong on biological activity (eg that the active compound of the phenethylamines is the hydroxylamine derivative), so don't elevate him to an unerring oracle in that field, because he's not.

Try to save some face and gracefully retire if you're incapable of admitting being incorrect; I don't think I'm the only one of that opinion at the moment
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but people were getting away with (legally) ingesting GBL (which metabolizes into GHB) immediately after GHB was declared illegal. The government had to actively ban the analogues in order to catch these "abusers". They could not find them guilty merely on the fact that they "chose to ingest" the "substance" which wasn't illegal at the time.
 
it's still so sad how you campaign to try and paint me as the one that's completely in the wrong and you are God and completely in the right. i got news for you, you're not. splitting by water is called hydrolysis no matter where you look, regardless of the fact that you like to call it metabolism. the fact is, we're talking about hydrolysis, which is one of the MANY processes that metabolism is formed of. however, saying that hydrolysis = metabolism is wrong. yet still, you deny that you're wrong, were ever wrong, could possibly be wrong, and so on and so forth. i at least had the character to admit when i was wrong and wrote Bear instead of Scully. you continue to ask the scientific world to stand on its head, because of the way you want to see things. sorry brotha, this is the real world. you should wake up...
 
i think this argument has gotten to the point where it should either be dropped or taken to PM.
This no longer has anything to do with the heirarchy of LSD.

I mean honestly, who cares which one of u is right.

(just as a side note, i think ecstasy non stop is being a bit immature here.)
 
yeah. i think i'll go ahead and close this.
debate is cool, but at a certain point it doesn't go any further.

i think the pertinent information regarding the original topic has been presented, and things have since gone astray.

no offense to anyone meant. buts its probably more suited to PM at this point.

if anyone really wants this to remain open, PM me. (or another mod. i'm in & out for a week or so)
 
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