Apostacious
Bluelighter
Not everyone has the luxury of saving money, let alone a disposable income. Anyway, thanks for encapsulating the typical Tea Party sentiment. I must admit, it has been rarely represented here.
Healthcare Isn't A Free Market: It's A Giant Economic Scam
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MrGrunge
Bluelighter
I hear amphetamine helps.
Joeof1
Bluelighter
How is not spending money on stuff you don't need a Luxury?
Not a Tea Party person, but thanks for assuming as much.
Apostacious
Bluelighter
It's a luxury because it presumes you have the ability to spend money on stuff you do not need.
Joeof1
Bluelighter
A luxury is something your do not need but buy anyways. Saving is not a luxury, it's the opposite of a luxury. You need to save, and if you don't you are squandering any sort of wealth you may be able to create.
Apostacious
Bluelighter
It's a luxury when you do not have the ability to save money in the first place. This has become more and more of a problem since '07. I'm sure you can imagine fellow human beings that are either deeply in debt due to a bachelor's degree without being able to find employment they are qualified for, or simply ended up being screwed over by having a disease/ailment that costs well beyond what they can afford to treat, which their insurance cannot cover. This is actually more common than you think. Not everyone is a free-wheeling, credit-card-maxing moron that ended up taking too much of an obscure research chem and wound up with a hefty $10,000 bill for an hour long stay in the ER.
Joeof1
Bluelighter
Honestly, it's poor planing.
I am not responsible for someone's inability to plan ahead. If you are not capable of finding employment then you are not looking hard enough. I got back from vacation and walked into three different jobs within a week. Are they in the field of my degree, no, but they pay me something reliable. The problem is that too many people were living too far out of their available means, and they got caught doing so. I have no pity for people that were not saving before the crash. I have always saved at least 20% of every paycheck I have ever been given, and now I save about 80% and living off the profits off my previous savings.
I received a Master's just last November, so if I was capable of doing it, then everyone else should be as well. You are responsible for your own situation in life. People such as myself and others were speaking out about the '08 crash and the one that is on the horizon now. It was your choice to not listen or pay attention to what is going on.
^ No amount of planning ahead at a low to mid level job is going to pay for a $1,000,000 cancer treatment, or back surgery, or whatever. The system is built so that everyone needs insurance, and even if you are extremely independantly wealthy you would be stupid not to have it.
Joeof1
Bluelighter
Well that's life, you can either deal with it, or you know the other option. Who said I advocate the system as it is? See the avatar? Do you know what it represents?
I really dont give a shit about your avatar or your "masters degree". This is an anonymous website where ideas matter more than status, and your ideas are incoherent.
You say that people should just save their money in order to pay for healthcare and that its their fault if they cant. Yet with the current cost of healthcare, most people are unable to save enough money to pay for major health issues no matter how frugally they live. Some people who cant pay for major procedures no matter how frugal they are WILL need them.
So when you say.....
....you are ignoring a very important part of the equation, a part that causes HUGE problems for healthcare in this country.
The reality is that uninsured people are a tremendous burden on society because we have laws that dictate that people who have life threatening conditions cannot be turned away. Much of the time uninsured people who have minor issues dont get it taken care of because they know they cant afford it. Sometimes when left untreated these minor issues turn into major ones, and they end up in the ER with no insurance getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care that could have been prevented. And guess who foots the bill at the end of the the day, that's right, the taxpayer.
It really doesnt make any sense at all to have people be responsible for their own medical bills. People are self interested to be healthy, its not like theyre going to just purposely go injure themselves or get a disease just because they have free healthcare, so demand will stay the same whether its free market or government run. If you look at other countries that have universal healthcare they pay much less per capita than we do, and care for everyone, mainly because they avoid the pitfalls stated above (that and they dont have huge giveaways to drug/insurance companies, a product of "free market healthcare").
You say that people should just save their money in order to pay for healthcare and that its their fault if they cant. Yet with the current cost of healthcare, most people are unable to save enough money to pay for major health issues no matter how frugally they live. Some people who cant pay for major procedures no matter how frugal they are WILL need them.
So when you say.....
....you are ignoring a very important part of the equation, a part that causes HUGE problems for healthcare in this country.
The reality is that uninsured people are a tremendous burden on society because we have laws that dictate that people who have life threatening conditions cannot be turned away. Much of the time uninsured people who have minor issues dont get it taken care of because they know they cant afford it. Sometimes when left untreated these minor issues turn into major ones, and they end up in the ER with no insurance getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care that could have been prevented. And guess who foots the bill at the end of the the day, that's right, the taxpayer.
It really doesnt make any sense at all to have people be responsible for their own medical bills. People are self interested to be healthy, its not like theyre going to just purposely go injure themselves or get a disease just because they have free healthcare, so demand will stay the same whether its free market or government run. If you look at other countries that have universal healthcare they pay much less per capita than we do, and care for everyone, mainly because they avoid the pitfalls stated above (that and they dont have huge giveaways to drug/insurance companies, a product of "free market healthcare").
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Apostacious
Bluelighter
I will refer you to what Care said, also I am sure you heard of the old adage, "shit happens."
Actually, as long as you reap benefit from society, it is your(everyone's) responsibility to insure that society continues on, and that no person will be held at fault, and left to die when they are victims of circumstance. That's what society is for; interdependence.
Not everyone has the means to continue looking for employment when they have exhausted the area by which they are able to find employment. Not everyone receives relocation packages with a job offer. Not everyone has a personality that is amiable to marketing themselves, nor does everyone have a clean record. You were in the military correct? No wonder it's easy for you to find employment, as it is commonly known that employers receive tax credits for hiring veterans. Why would they hire some pacifist who may or may not have gone to jail for possession of marijuana when they can automatically garner a profit from having you fill a position? I certainly don't expect anyone to join the military in order to secure future employment, as I greatly disagree with what the U.S. military is doing. Certainly there is a better way? Or should we be expected to risk our lives and kill others for reasons we don't understand just to be assured that we may not die deeply in debt?
Of course that is part of the problem, but that isn't a fair representation of whom doesn't have the ability to save money. That's great you're now wealthy and are able to live off of your assets alone. How exactly does that help anyone else? Or is that the least of your concerns?
Good for you. I am starting graduate school in August. Depending on the program and the field you are studying, not everyone can hack what you're doing. I know for the field I'm studying, there's about 150 math majors (fairly large estimate) in a University of 20,000. You shouldn't expect everyone to be able to do something just because you could/did. Not everyone starts from the same position, or has the same amount of self-confidence, energy, and motivation.
As far as what caused the crash, I doubt a single person that understands the cause supports the continuation of the effects that caused said crash. I've always thought that banks over-leveraging themselves and expecting derivatives to magically dilute any and all risk such that any bank can create capital simply by extending credit to more people (even if there is no expectation that they will pay them back) was a stupid idea. That was a consequence of people in the banking industry not listening to actuaries like they do in the insurance industry, and instead focusing on maximizing short-term profits, even if it means crashing the system in the process.
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Joeof1
Bluelighter
No it isn't. Society is for voluntary co-operation, not so that you can put your burdens onto me. Society is merely the description of those that gather for like interest. What you are saying is that it's a form of socialism, it is not.
None of my employer's know I was in the military, they are 1099 positions. They are everywhere, you just have to check Craigslist and be willing to actually work for your pay. It was literally I called them and asked them about the position and I was working that week. I have a day time position that is 6 hours Mon-Fri, an evening position for Fri-Sun except for the first weekend of ever month and a day position for the weekends. It was literally that easy.
I grew up poor as hell, so there is no reason why no one else shouldn't be able to figure it out. Instead of making excuses for why you have no savings you should likely be out there looking for work and saving.
Then they probably should not be in that program, or in college. They should likely be in trade school learning a trade. Not everyone can be a Mathematician.
The banks didn't cause the crash.
Leveraging anything is stupid idea. Leveraging means you are not saving.
superelephant
Bluelighter
No. I literally would die before I participate in any of that bullshit. It's you that's naive.
start with acetyl L-Carnitine HCL, Alpha Lipoic acid and piracetam
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superelephant
Bluelighter
Ok, this is just complete nonsense. Maybe people feel as if they are interested in such, but the vast majority of people do not expend the amount of time or effort it takes to actually remain healthy. shit, the vast majority of people can't even pronounce the entire ingredients list on the back of a pre made refrigerated sub, much less know whether or not those substances are healthy to ingest or which if any biological response(s) they elicit.
The amount of things that affect general health are innumerable, and most people could not care less.
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My point is that if we have universal healthcare people arent going to suddenly go out and eat cheeseburgers for every meal because they qualify for a free pacemaker.
I agree that people in general dont make healthy decisions, but thats not really relevant to my point, which was that the demand for healthcare will be relatively the same whether its universal or private.
I agree that people in general dont make healthy decisions, but thats not really relevant to my point, which was that the demand for healthcare will be relatively the same whether its universal or private.
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Apostacious
Bluelighter
Regardless of whether or not you want those burdens they WILL be placed on you. When people cant procure employment, sustenance income, housing, and food from the state whether or not their position in life is a result of their conscious poor decisions or not, they will simply turn to crime, and mug people like you for everything you're worth. Sure we could spend more money on cracking down on crime, but where does that lead? Oh yeah, that's right, those who turned to crime will be given free housing, food, and even some form of income for commissary. Society is NOT a voluntary construct when there are such things as property laws. You cannot just move somewhere, and live off the land when you don't own the land; and in order to own the land you need money, which requires you to participate in society.
Oh, so in other words you're a tax cheat. How fitting.
You should probably stop it with the 'you' schtick. I actually am well off for someone that makes minimum wage, and am a very hard worker and student. I am speaking about others, whom are in a position in life where they are genuinely financially trapped. Believe it or not, this actually happens. I have worked with plenty of others in a city with a 5+ year long 20% unemployment rate, where the majority of jobs available only paid minimum wage, and any jobs which paid above it, required previous work experience in their field, and also (here's what gets people genuinely trapped) requires you to be currently employed elsewhere in their industry.
So, how did people with little to no income acquire the ability to get credit extensions in the first place? It was of course due to government-subsidized investment banking, which was only a part of the problem. The other part of course, being extending credit to individuals with bad credit or no credit to begin with, where they are given a few months of low interest rates, then after said time has elapsed, the interest spikes well beyond what they can afford. So, you can blame others for not being good at math, or being financially irresponsible, but they were also being enabled, not just by the government, but by the investment banking industry.
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Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
So what's the biggest medical bill you can pay out of pocket?
Say, for example, you were driving home one night. Another driver, drunk and uninsured, crosses the road, striking you head-on. The driver is killed in the crash. You must be airlifted to a hospital, where you spend quite a bit of time in the ICU, then months recovering.
Could you pay for all that medical treatment? You could very easily be looking at a 7 figure bill.
superelephant
Bluelighter
^if that happened to me I'd commit suicide.
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
Are you advocating that the problem of large medical bills in our healthcare system should be solved through suicide?
Does this apply to all people, or only those without family members to take care of?
Apostacious
Bluelighter
^Lo and behold the free market solution, folks! That or Columbian death squads to kill off all the bums that got screwed over.